Dawn of Alternate History: An Alternate-History Focused Modmod of RFC DoC

mrrandomplayer · Apr 17, 2014

Link to the site:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downlo...=file&id=22068

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mod Description
Welcome to RFC: Dawn of Alternate History ModModMod pre-Alpha v. 0.1!

This mod is a modmod of the Civilization 4 mod RFC Dawn of Civilization. The goal of this modmod is to expand on the alternate history capabilities of DoC.

What's this modmod all about? Why shouldn't I just be content with regular DoC?
That's a very important question, especially since this is departing from DoC much less than DoC from RFC. While DoC tried to fix everything wrong with RFC and vastly improve the gameplay and historicity, which was inspired by Leoreth's frustration at the shortcomings of RFC. However, that's not where this mod came from. I still think DoC is awesome, and I still contribute to the development of the mod. This is more like a more focused side project relating to one concept: Alternate History. The respawn civs and Alternate history scenarios help fulfill that. That's really the driving purpose. I don't care about gameplay changes, unless it helps expand on alternate history scenarios (overhauling the stability system, for example).

What's this modmod NOT about?
Anything other than alternate history. Like DoC, it isn't a kitchen sink mod.

All fine and good, but how do I install this?
Easy. Download the RAR file from the link at the bottom of the page, and extract it into your Beyond the Sword\Mods\ folder. You don't need to have RFC or DoC installed beforehand, nor do you have to load RFC or DoC before you can load Dawn of AltHist. Another important point is that this is a standalone mod, not a modcomp like many others existing for DoC.

Always loading the modmod is rather tedious. Isn't there a faster way to launch it?
There is. You can also start the modmod by executing the 3000 BC, 500 AD, 600 AD, or 1700 AD, scenario files in RFC Dawn of Alternate History\PublicMaps\, you can even make a shortcut to them wherever you like. You'll get to the civ selection screen for a new game, but can easily reach the main menu by clicking "back".

I have an idea to improve this modmod. Can I post it here?
Please do! You're more than welcome to contribute your own ideas and observations here. As already said, I'll gladly add a good idea when I see one. I'm especially open to discuss Alternate timelines for this mod. However, if it doesn't fall within the mod's concept, be prepared to see it rejected.

Current Features:
500 AD Alternate History Scenario
Venice added as a rebirth civilization.

Planned Features:
Alpha: At least 2 more Alternate History scenarios, and possibly add a few more rebirth civilizations.

Please enjoy!

Download link:http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=22068

mrrandomplayer · Apr 17, 2014

Current ideas/Topics for Discussion:

1000 AD Ideas:
A combined Byzanto-Persian alliance beats back the Arabs and they invade Europe instead, and they win at Tours, converting France and Germany (and possibly England) to Islam.
Questions/Issues:
-I would need to add a conditional spawn for the Seljuks with Islam in Iran and Mughals in India
-How much effect would a half-Islamic Europe have on the world?

1492:

Tomorrow's Dawn said:
http://slumberparties.deviantart.com/#/art/Pulp-Steampunk-Western-439218020?hf=1

If you visit the page proper, you can read an additional description I've provided for the scenario.
It's the late 15th century but the tech level is equivalent to a late 19th/early 20th century setting.
But I have put quite a bit of thought and research into this and feel it's a good fit for an alt-history scenario for your modmod.
We can omit the steampunk elements, but overall I'd love to work on this with you.

Thanks to Tomorrow's Dawn for the idea.

1600 AD Ideas:
This one is the one that I am least sure about. I was thinking of China discovering the New World and there being Chinese, Japanese, and Korean colonies along the Pacific coast. However, this one is up for grabs in terms of ideas.

Pre-0 AD, 1800-1900 AD: Should they be done?

Go ahead and discuss!

mrrandomplayer · Apr 17, 2014

Reserved for bug reports and technical issues.

mrrandomplayer · Apr 17, 2014

Reserved for other stuff.

You may post now.

baseballpie · Apr 17, 2014

mrrandomplayer said:
Current ideas/Topics for Discussion:

1600 AD Ideas:
This one is the one that I am least sure about. I was thinking of China discovering the New World and there being Chinese, Japanese, and Korean colonies along the Pacific coast. However, this one is up for grabs in terms of ideas.

Go ahead and discuss!

Sunset Invasion, perhaps?

mrrandomplayer · Apr 17, 2014

baseballpie said:
Sunset Invasion, perhaps?

Only if you can find a LEGITIMATE reason for it happening.

Tomorrow's Dawn · Apr 18, 2014

Reposting for the Great Library survival scenario:

Scenario Civs:

Spoiler :

New UVs:

Spoiler :

New UUs:

Spoiler :

ales_ · Apr 18, 2014

Originally Posted by Mod Description?

Tomorrow's Dawn · Apr 18, 2014

Also, question, what stability system is this modmodmod on?
Old Rhye stability or Modern Leo stability?

Theodorick · Apr 18, 2014

Why is the Venetian goal to conquer Constantinople, when not only does the historical rational to conquer that city not exist in this scenario, but the city itself also isn't there? I'd personally change the goal to conquer the Orthodox holy city, or even just to control another civilization's capital, though the first option feels more significant.

Overall though, I like this mod-mod's idea. The steampunk scenario idea above sounds fascinating. I also like China discovering the new world first as an idea, but it would only work in the case of two scenarios... Europe is held back somehow (Maybe the Battle of Tours is won by the Umayyad's?), or after Zheng He's voyages, the next Emperor of the Ming Dynasty isn't so conservative and resumes the voyages? The latter scenario would have China and Europe discovering the new world at about the same time, but from different coasts, allowing for competition, but mostly omitting the other East Asian civs initially.

Swarbs · Apr 18, 2014

One scenario could be a 1200AD start where Genghis Khan is stillborn so no Mongol empire forms.

Kwarezm expands west, conquers Egypt and forms a Persian Caliphate
The Ottomans never emerge
Kievan Rus dominates Russia, wars with Hungary, Cumans and Kwarezm, and expands to Constantinople once the ERE collapses
Jin dynasty becomes expansionist and colonises American and Australia
No Timurids and Mughals so something good happens in India (not so hot on Indian history in the Middle ages)
The Eastern European states are never sacked by the Mongols, so Hungary and Poland become major powers in the Middle Ages, conquering much of the HRE and fighting an Anglo-French alliance for control of Italy

Tomorrow's Dawn · Apr 18, 2014

Swarbs said:
One scenario could be a 1200AD start where Genghis Khan is stillborn so no Mongol empire forms.

Kwarezm expands west, conquers Egypt and forms a Persian Caliphate
The Ottomans never emerge
Kievan Rus dominates Russia, wars with Hungary, Cumans and Kwarezm, and expands to Constantinople once the ERE collapses
Jin dynasty becomes expansionist and colonises American and Australia
No Timurids and Mughals so something good happens in India (not so hot on Indian history in the Middle ages)
The Eastern European states are never sacked by the Mongols, so Hungary and Poland become major powers in the Middle Ages, conquering much of the HRE and fighting an Anglo-French alliance for control of Italy

Firstly, the Song are in a much better geographical and technological position to colonize.
By the end of the first series of humiliations inflicted upon Song by the Jin, the Jin essentially hit a brick wall and were thwarted by the Song a number of times thereafter.

Secondly, Eastern Europe's relative sluggishness when compared to Western Europe is should not and can not be attributed to the Mongol invasions.
They were hardly a footnote when compared to the Crimean Tatar raids across Eastern European lands much later on.
That was the real reason why they were setback in development.
It is safe to say they will end up developing better with the absence of powerful nomadic peoples in the first place,
but the Italian thing seems kind of a stretch to me.

apenpaap · Apr 18, 2014

From what I remember, Hungary was doing pretty well in the middle ages, though. If the Mongols hadn't beaten them down, maybe they would've been in a much better position to defend against the Tatars later on?

baseballpie · Apr 18, 2014

mrrandomplayer said:
Only if you can find a LEGITIMATE reason for it happening.

While nomadic Euro-Asians struggle to survive, the advanced Native Americans develop the ability to farm and settle down in cities. The Aztecs and several other tribes establish dominance over their opponents, but

Okay, without preventing the Old World from ever discovering farming and remaining nomadic, no

apenpaap · Apr 18, 2014

In The Mammoth Book of Alternate Histories, there was one where Columbus was sponsored by Granada instead, landed in Mexico, and brought back an Aztec army (led by Montezuma before he became emperor) to help fight off the Spaniards. It was not exactly one of the most grounded in reality stories in the book, though.

mrrandomplayer · Apr 18, 2014

Tomorrow's Dawn said:
Also, question, what stability system is this modmodmod on?
Old Rhye stability or Modern Leo stability?

Modern. It's up to date with SVN 703, though it might not always be up to date with SVN.

Theodorick said:
Why is the Venetian goal to conquer Constantinople, when not only does the historical rational to conquer that city not exist in this scenario, but the city itself also isn't there? I'd personally change the goal to conquer the Orthodox holy city, or even just to control another civilization's capital, though the first option feels more significant.

It's because Venice was fundamentally connected to Byzantium for its early existence, and making scenario-specific UHVs might not be possible. I'll add a check so that Venice doesn't spawn if the Byzantines are dead to prevent situations like that from happening.

Overall though, I like this mod-mod's idea. The steampunk scenario idea above sounds fascinating. I also like China discovering the new world first as an idea, but it would only work in the case of two scenarios... Europe is held back somehow (Maybe the Battle of Tours is won by the Umayyad's?), or after Zheng He's voyages, the next Emperor of the Ming Dynasty isn't so conservative and resumes the voyages? The latter scenario would have China and Europe discovering the new world at about the same time, but from different coasts, allowing for competition, but mostly omitting the other East Asian civs initially.

Thanks! It will be the second situation, and I will probably have the thing that slows down the Europeans be that Columbus' ships sink, and the Europeans don't discover the Americas for an additional 100 years (and the lack of American gold and silver slows down the European economy), and are just beginning to colonize in 1700.

brett0007 · Apr 18, 2014

Roman Intro

Spoiler :

civs at start

Spoiler :

Spawns/releasable

Spoiler :

new word civs stay the same

Seljuks invade westward instead along the path of the mongols around 1200

Advanced americas/possible sunset invasion backstory

Spoiler :

old world remains the same

civs

Spoiler :

cudfather · Apr 18, 2014

Sunset invasion... How about this:

The 6th century plague of Justinian hits much harder, spreading all across the Silk Route (if there's another reason for China's weakness in 13th-15th century, nevermind this). Europe and Asia are crippled, 80% mortality rate. Due to recurrences of the pandemic, civs don't start recovery until 10th century.
While the Old World is busy being sick, a charismatic leader is born in Central America in 10th century, uniting the warring city-states (Montezuma the Zeroth).

tl;dr: Eurasia is crippled because of plague. The Aztec emerge earlier. Sunset Invasion.

Will flesh it out if you find it plausible.

sebzilla · Apr 18, 2014

A scenario where Rome lost the Punic Wars could be interesting.

Tomorrow's Dawn · Apr 18, 2014

sebzilla said:
A scenario where Rome lost the Punic Wars could be interesting.

This one is actually plausible. There have been a number of stories and things like that written for such a scenario already, but perhaps the most well known is the short story:
"Delenda Est" by Poul Anderson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delenda_Est

Dawn of Alternate History: An Alternate-History Focused Modmod of RFC DoC

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