Dealing with two very isolated starts (C3C)

ThisIsHughYoung · May 1, 2014

Hey guys,

I'm brand new to Civ, got CIII Complete (Conquests) and CivIV Complete together for 11 bucks on Amazon about three weeks ago. How did I not know all this time that these games existed?

After one very successful but boring pangaea game on Chieftain, I decided to jump straight to equal footing with AI and start a Regent Pangaea game - beautiful start, TONS of luxuries, warmongered my way to strategic resources (saving diplomacy for another day), crushing domination victory.

My next two Regent games were very interesting in the way that they were both standard size continent games where I was the only civ on a fairly small island. The first of these was Babylon, separated from my nearest neighbour by a sea tile. I made the mistake of researching Navigation too late so by the time I could build a Galley and make contact I was hopelessly behind.

Only resources on my island were horses, one extra iron and two extra silks - had to import everything else. Aside from the silks, gold rushing was the only way I could gain any trading power with AI. I played the first one through by kissing ass as much as I could but by 400 turns I knew for sure that there was no way I could catch up to a runaway Sumeria AI.

What do you think of this situation? Was there a better way I could have handled it?

ROUND TWO:
I try again as the Arabs, and things are looking worse. Did a sentry of my island with a curragh and can only see ocean tiles everywhere. It's going to be a very long time before I can make contact with anyone.

Luckily I managed to build the Colossus but I'm not too sure if I can keep up a culture game since I'm sure AI's are trading techs and will be able to build GW's much earlier than I'll be able to. I likely do not have the landmass necessary to be eligible for a diplomatic victory, unless I can beef up my military enough after making contact.

Being on Regent still means that GW's are in a way still an option.

Let me know if anyone is interested in seeing screenshots or a save file. What do you guys think? What are my options to deal with this ocean tile isolation? Even though I'm new to this game, how is my reasoning?

EDIT: I love how detailed people log their games on this website, I haven't been doing a good job of this one but I'll be sure to make a habit of it in the future!

Cheers.

CommandoBob · May 2, 2014

First,

Welcome to the forum!

ThisIsHughYoung said:
What do you think of this situation? Was there a better way I could have handled it?

Second, take heart from this thread: Recovering from Last Place after Expansion Phase, Step by Step. This is also a Regent level game.

I would post a save, say one from each game. Concrete examples that you can reference are so much better than generalizations that may or may not apply to what you are doing in your game.

In your first game, since it is around 1900 AD, there probably isn't enough time for a Conquest or Domination win. Diplomatic and Space might be possible, however. But it is possible to stop Sumeria.

ThisIsHughYoung · May 2, 2014

Hey CommandoBob, thanks for the link!

Since my first post I played game 2 a lot more and managed to become tech and culture leader through diplomacy and micromanaging. I'm well on my way to a diplomatic or space victory. At this moment I'm four techs ahead and I'm looking towards an alliance vs maya, the current power leader.

At the moment I want to play out game two and see what I can learn, but if I can find a game one save I'll be sure to post it. Forgot to say in game one Sumeria already built UN so perhaps my best chance is to fight my way into UN Leader contention with the time I still have? Of course this anecdotal information is far from useful so I'll dig around for a save next time I'm on my laptop.

UPDATE: Diplomatic Victory in Game 2 at the new Millenium!
Fig 1:

Fig 2: My isolated situation - Didn't discover the southern landmass until 1400AD, managed to turn around the game through lots of trading
Fig 3: By the time I discovered Babylon (around 1450AD) the Mayans had pummeled them down to one city, Eridu. Strangely enough they never finished the job, and this one tiny city managed to continue its existence, horribly behind in every way possible, and by bribing them every 20 turns with an obsoleted tech this one tiny city made the deciding vote... phew!

Eridu, you are the most pathetic city I've ever had the pleasure of meeting. But I still love you.

Jivilov · May 2, 2014

ThisIsHughYoung said:
My next two Regent games were very interesting in the way that they were both standard size continent games where I was the only civ on a fairly small island. The first of these was Babylon, separated from my nearest neighbour by a sea tile. I made the mistake of researching Navigation too late so by the time I could build a Galley and make contact I was hopelessly behind.

Greetings Sir Hugh. Welcome to C3C, which some of us consider the finest of all Civs.

Btw if you were isolated by only a single sea tile you didn't have to wait for Navigation (in the Middle Ages) to make Galleys. That ability comes with Map Making in Ancient Times. Before that--with Alphabet--you could've built Curraghs, which don't carry passengers but could've traversed that single sea tile to make contact.

Anyway you seem well on your way to mastery. Good luck and when you win at Demigod maybe you could give me some tips

! Cheers.

Edit: Actually from your thumbnail it seems you're separated by an ocean and two sea tiles, so you'd have to do a "suicide Curragh" run. But even if it sank, you'd still have a chance to spot the other civ's units before going under on the AI turn.

ThisIsHughYoung · May 3, 2014

Jivilov said:
Greetings Sir Hugh. Welcome to C3C, which some of us consider the finest of all Civs.

Thanks! I love this game. I haven't tried any other Civ's, (got Civ IV lined up, though) but Civ III is the best game I've ever played. This game I just complete really solidified the concept for me that there is no one way to play. Forgot to mention that the only shots I ever fired were towards a rogue privateer. Not to say I didn't have wars, but with other enemies to deal with, I was too far away for the AI to actually care!

Jivilov said:
Btw if you were isolated by only a single sea tile you didn't have to wait for Navigation (in the Middle Ages) to make Galleys.

Oops, yeah, in fact I did mean to say Mapmaking... didn't have my tech tree reference handy. The "single sea tile" problem was actually from my first game, I hadn't figured some of these naval exploration techniques out yet. Unfortunately I think I deleted the save along with some other early "learning" failures.

Jivilov said:
Anyway you seem well on your way to mastery. Good luck and when you win at Demigod maybe you could give me some tips ! Cheers.

Edit: Actually from your thumbnail it seems you're separated by an ocean and two sea tiles, so you'd have to do a "suicide Curragh" run. But even if it sank, you'd still have a chance to spot the other civ's units before going under on the AI turn.

haha thanks! In the game pictured above I had two curraghs circle the entire coastline in opposing directions, then again hopping to a sea tile and back to expand my map by one square. The only lead was the patch of sea tiles I caught off in the west - I did lose a curragh attempting to explore it but did not find any evidence of a shore nearby (as you can see there really wasn't anything there)

Ultimately the evidence was inconclusive, if I sent curragh #2 out it would be a near certain chance of death with no contact. Turns out this cost-benefit approach was a good choice, although it's hard to see there are in fact three ocean tiles separating me from the nearest AI. Anyways, I disbanded the last curragh for shields, saved on early unit upkeep cost and focused on internal affairs instead.

Cheers!

iPwn · May 4, 2014

You are doing very well, back when I played on regent I thought that roads are only there to connect towns so I did not build them on any other square.

ThisIsHughYoung · May 4, 2014

iPwn said:
You are doing very well, back when I played on regent I thought that roads are only there to connect towns so I did not build them on any other square.

Hah thanks! This was my first game where I chose to never, under any circumstance, automate any workers. I was very happy with the efficiency boost I got.

Lanzelot · May 5, 2014

When you find out early, that you are on an isolated island, it is also an option to "pre-build" for an early Great Lighthouse. In this particular example here you could have made contact to all nations on the map with a galley+Lighthouse (movement 4 and does not sink on sea tiles).

Even without the Lighthouse, a dozen suicide galleys or so should have made the jump over to that southern continent eventually. (Probably still before 10 AD.) It just takes "perseverance"...

ThisIsHughYoung · May 6, 2014

Lanzelot said:
When you find out early, that you are on an isolated island, it is also an option to "pre-build" for an early Great Lighthouse. In this particular example here you could have made contact to all nations on the map with a galley+Lighthouse (movement 4 and does not sink on sea tiles).

Sweet, I'll keep this in mind.

Lanzelot said:
Even without the Lighthouse, a dozen suicide galleys or so should have made the jump over to that southern continent eventually. (Probably still before 10 AD.) It just takes "perseverance"...

Hm, this is true. I noticed in this game something that never happened before... I could trade for contact with other civs. Under what circumstances is this possible?

Lanzelot · May 6, 2014

ThisIsHughYoung said:
I could trade for contact with other civs. Under what circumstances is this possible?

In Vanilla and PtW this is possible once you know Mak Making. In C3C it comes significantly later: once you know Printing Press.

Theov · May 8, 2014

Do you have the 4000bc savegame of that Isolated start of the pictures??
Do you care to zip it and post it? Thanks.

Puppeteer · May 9, 2014

Isolated starts are rough. At Regent the AI doesn't have a production advantage, but they still can find and trade with each other so the isolated civ is at a disadvantage.

First, my goal in any game start is to scout the immediate area for early expansion and then to scout to find other civs / the rest of the world. If I'm isolated, my scouts start hitting coasts and I start trying to map out whether I'm on an island or just a peninsula.

So I usually know by the time I have 2 or 3 cities if I'm isolated, and by then I should know the shape and size of my island.

My goal then is to reach MapMaking ASAP and send out suicide galleys. That means maximizing research which means maximizing income and minimizing expenses.

Income:

Maximize population in the capital and lowest-corruption cities ASAP (but of course you must get other cities founded, so the first 20-40 turns your capital may be building settlers)
Fresh water, rivers and some resources are higher-commerce tiles; target those (ocean is 1-food which slows growth; don't slow growth until fully populated)
Build roads on worked tiles to increase income (keep in mind the Despotism penalty)
Going for early Colossus often makes sense, and generally you have nothing better to build, anyway. (In isolated starts!)
Settling capital/core cities by fresh water lets them exceed size 6 to size 12 with no extra tech or buildings, so place cities strategically

Expenses:

Building lots of units will cost support, and if you're on an island you have no enemies except barbs. When you expand so you have all land visible from city borders and land combat units--workers, scouts and boats don't count--then barbs can't spawn on your island, and you no longer need any defense at all until other civs can reach you. Of course you'll have enough unit support for some MP where needed.
Most buildings cost money for upkeep and are currently useless. Don't build a temple, granary or barracks unless it's definitely worth the 1gpt. And a granary may not be long-lived enough to be worth building one. (Reminder: this bullet point applies to isolated starts!)
Techs get cheaper to research the more civs you know that have that tech. Since you're isolated, you're researching at the highest possible cost. Don't research anything except what gets you to Map Making so you can meet other civs; even if you're too far behind to trade, your catch-up research cost will drop dramatically once you have more contacts.
If you have curraghs, you can try sending them out on suicide missions to make contact at Alphabet. You'll have nothing better to build, anyway.

Theov · May 9, 2014

Puppeteer said:
Isolated starts are rough. At Regent the AI doesn't have a production advantage, but they still can find and trade with each other so the isolated civ is at a disadvantage.

First, my goal in any game start is to scout the immediate area for early expansion and then to scout to find other civs / the rest of the world. If I'm isolated, my scouts start hitting coasts and I start trying to map out whether I'm on an island or just a peninsula.

So I usually know by the time I have 2 or 3 cities if I'm isolated, and by then I should know the shape and size of my island.

My goal then is to reach MapMaking ASAP and send out suicide galleys. That means maximizing research which means maximizing income and minimizing expenses.

Income:

Maximize population in the capital and lowest-corruption cities ASAP (but of course you must get other cities founded, so the first 20-40 turns your capital may be building settlers)

Fresh water, rivers and some resources are higher-commerce tiles; target those (ocean is 1-food which slows growth; don't slow growth until fully populated)

Build roads on worked tiles to increase income (keep in mind the Despotism penalty)

Going for early Colossus often makes sense, and generally you have nothing better to build, anyway. (In isolated starts!)

Settling capital/core cities by fresh water lets them exceed size 6 to size 12 with no extra tech or buildings, so place cities strategically

Expenses:

Building lots of units will cost support, and if you're on an island you have no enemies except barbs. When you expand so you have all land visible from city borders and land combat units--workers, scouts and boats don't count--then barbs can't spawn on your island, and you no longer need any defense at all until other civs can reach you. Of course you'll have enough unit support for some MP where needed.

Most buildings cost money for upkeep and are currently useless. Don't build a temple, granary or barracks unless it's definitely worth the 1gpt. And a granary may not be long-lived enough to be worth building one. (Reminder: this bullet point applies to isolated starts!)

Techs get cheaper to research the more civs you know that have that tech. Since you're isolated, you're researching at the highest possible cost. Don't research anything except what gets you to Map Making so you can meet other civs; even if you're too far behind to trade, your catch-up research cost will drop dramatically once you have more contacts.

If you have curraghs, you can try sending them out on suicide missions to make contact at Alphabet. You'll have nothing better to build, anyway.

Then, well before you research Navigation build a serious, and I mean serious (30+) landing force.
Set out a few (3,4) expeditions and find as many opponents as possible to trade with and to cheapen the price of techs.
Target an opponent with some luxuries or resources you need, or something else, and beat the living crap out of a defendable (<-is that a word?) coastal city to make a stronghold on their turf.
Get other AI's involved to make the AI lose units.
research nukes
win

Puppeteer · May 10, 2014

Here's an assignment if you're interested. I know the following map is an isolated island start. I re-created it at 4000 BC as Regent difficulty:

Epic C3C, no mods
Seed 1496780
Standard Size
Roaming Barbs
Continents 70% Water
Normal Climate, Temperate, 5 Billion Years
Mongols player civ, random AI civs, standard settings minus Culturally linked starts
Regent difficulty
AI Aggression normal

4000 BC Save - If you haven't played downloaded saves before, beware that many preferences are stored in the game save file, so you will want to check preferences before you start playing as they may be different than what you're used to.

This is the map I used in my Joining Initial Worker to Capital thread. That topic has nothing to do with this thread, but I played that test game just long enough to prove a point to myself and noticed that it's an isolated island start. I don't know where the rest of the world is.

I'm thinking I'll also play and we can compare notes on how long it takes to meet the rest of the world and catch up to them. (Unless I flake out...I do that sometimes.)

The good:

Being expansionist you won't get bad results from goody huts.
You can peek at the linked thread and see screenshots of what the starting area looks like and three trials at how to best start this map.
With scouts you'll map out the island quickly.
You start with a scout in addition to the settler and worker.
The starting location has fresh water; if you settle in place, the capital can grow to size 12.
There is a helpful resource you'll quickly find nearby.

The bad:

After you map the island, scouts are worthless until you get galleys to transport them elsewhere
Cheap barracks and faster promotions aren't going to do you any good until you can get your military to another land mass

And of course anyone is welcome to grab the save and see how fast you can get off the island and brag about it here. The Mongols will be great for Theov's off-island strategy.

Puppeteer · May 10, 2014

I think I'm going to start this today. Here is some pre-game analysis and self-rule-making:

I have the spoiler knowledge that this is an isolated island start, and I know the rough size, shape and land type of my island. But the point of the exercise is what to do when you find you're isolated, so I will proceed mostly as I did before with the first two city placements, but in my trials I had figured out by turn 20 with one scout that I was on an island, so my decisions from turn 20 or so will be based on a get-off-the-island strategy.

If I wanted to start from turn 0 with my spoiler knowledge and a get-off-isle strategy I might consider moving the settler to the coast and figure out how to squeeze 3-4 cities on the 2-tile lake to get as many low-corruption citizens as I can.

My spoiler knowledge of isle (not all that spoiler-y, and it is known before the 2nd city is founded, anyway):

Spoiler :

Research plan: I start with Pottery and WC. In the linked trials I did no research so I could easily count income. Used to I might prioritize BW for spears, and in this game it's tempting to get the tech for Colossus, but based on my current usual play style I'm pretty sure I would start researching Alphabet at minimum because it's an expensive tech, and I'm happy enough using archers instead of spears for early military needs, especially as Mongols. So that means no Colossus as when I "discover" I'm on an island I'll go max research towards Map Making. So I'll start with researching Alphabet at minimum and then accelerate to max when I think my scout has told me we're likely on an island start.

First two cities plan: I will settle in place and then settle the food bonus with my second city. I will build a 2nd scout first because that's what I'd do without spoiler knowledge, and I'll probably still choose to build an archer 2nd. (Without spoiler knowledge I might have built a cheap barracks 2nd, but I'm not going to.) Then the settler. I'll probably still start developing the 2nd city with a granary, but I reserve the right to change my mind once I "discover" the isolation. I think I might keep the granary, though.

At that point, turn 20-30, I'll be caught-up with my spoiler knowledge and aim for getting off the island. That means mines will be less important than roads, I won't need much military, I won't need any buildings over the one granary, and I may be putting cities on wealth ~~or wonders~~ (oops I won't have tech for wonders) where I usually wouldn't. Until I'm nearing Map Making where I might start building an invasion force or prebuilding for Great Lighthouse, harbors or galleys. Also, I'll prioritize placing and growing core cities more than expanding outward quickly.

I think on Regent I might beet the others to Map Making. Some of them will have Alphabet already and be able to trade, but they will be getting the other first-tier techs, IW and Mysticism, so I think I may beat them to both Writing and Map Making. This is assuming I don't find anyone with suicide curraghs. If I find two or more civs by curragh before Map Making I'll be forever ahead in tech.

Theov · May 10, 2014

If you really don't want to know anything don't click on the spoiler.

Spoiler :

Puppeteer · May 11, 2014

A first time for everything.

I did not experience either the luck or misfortune in the spoiler.

I played, and I have notes and screenshots, but I want to see if OP gives it a shot before I post much. I think I like this map.

I did get a palace expansion with no battles fought, not even with barbs. Usually I don't get palace expansions until I start being violent. :hammer:

ThisIsHughYoung · May 11, 2014

Puppeteer said:
I played, and I have notes and screenshots, but I want to see if OP gives it a shot before I post much. I think I like this map.

OP here. Firstly I want to thank you all for your incredible response and help! I finish exams on Tuesday and right after I'll pick up the save file. Should we set a deadline to trade notes or just put everything out when each one of us finishes?

Puppeteer · May 11, 2014

Coordination sounds like work. Let's just post when we're ready. Perhaps we can use spoiler tags and divide into starting landmass and then information beyond the starting landmass, but it's not that important.

Puppeteer · May 15, 2014

Okay, here we go. I over-think things and type a lot. Hopefully that helps in this situation.

From start to early sea exploration:

Spoiler :

Turn 0, 4000 BC: Scout 2W, see diamonds...yay, I do have a lux! Worker SW. Settle in place -> Scout. "Discover" deer forest 2N just outside city borders. Put citizen on to-be-improved tile, research Alphabet at minimum.
Turn 1, 3950 BC: Start mine. Scout S, spots hut and more diamonds and volcano, W to bust hut, get maps. Notice my starting area is skinny and narrowing to S.
Turn 2, 3900 BC: Scout SE, S to hill. Find sugar and another patch of fresh water lake.
Turn 3, 3850 BC: Scout SE, S.
Turn 4, 3800 BC: Scout S, SW to hill, find only coastline to my S. Hmmm, I'm close to the north end of map. "Beginning to wonder" if my start is isolated.
Turn 5, 3750 BC: Karakorum scout -> archer. (Projecting less/no shield waste with a 20s build at this time.) Rename first scout Penny, new scout Groat. Penny NE,NE. Groat N,N to deer.
Turn 6, 3700 BC: Groat N, NW, spots more diamonds and a hut. Penny NE,N, spots fish.
Turn 7, 3650 BC: Worker mine -> road. Penny 2NE, reveals whats SE of capital. Groat 2NW, busts hut, gets 25g, finds narrow part of land and tundra to N. "Start to get concerned" that my starting area has room for 6-8 good cities and I might be isolated or have a poor land path to the rest of the world.

Spoiler :
Turn 8, 3600 BC: Penny E, N across far side of lake. She needs to see if there's a land bridge in the fog to the NE. Groat N, N, spots coast. "Uh-oh, am I on an island?"
Turn 9, 3550 BC: Penny 2NE, finds fish and coast. Groat N, W. Really looking like an island, only possibilities are fogged land bridges and maybe NW tundra connection.
Turn 10, 3500 BC: Karakorum size 2, borders expand. Penny NE, W (peer 2 tiles into ocean, start heading to W coast to unfog it). Groat 2SW. Pause to overthink next worker action. Ok, still going for the deer next. Worker completes road, moves NE, N towards deer. Check Karakorum, move new citizen to lake, +2 commerce and still archer due in 2. Decide it's time to hit the panic button and beeline for Map Making. Research to 100%, formely Alpha in 40, now Alpha in 19.
Turn 11, 3450 BC: Worker starts road. Penny 2W. Groat W, SW, finds tundra coastline. Almost definitely an island. Starting to overthink my city placement, but I have at least another three turns before the worker finishes the road and I have to make a decision affecting the next city placement/improvement.
Turn 12, 3400 BC: Karakorum Archer -> Settler. Penny W, NW. Groat heading back E to unfog the NE part of the presumed island. Mil advisor mentions no barbs, but Archer has nothing better to do than wait for the setter. Archer fortifies.
Turn 13, 3350 BC: Penny N,W. Groat 2E. I can see all the coasts, I am nearly definitely on an island. Will send the scouts to look for hidden land bridges, but safe to bet on an isolated island start now.
Turn 14, 3300 BC: Worker completes road. Groat E to unfog NE coast. Penny E,S and needs 2 or three more turns to unfog the last fogged coast tile, but it doesn't look like a land bridge to me. So I spend a bunch of time plannig city placement with consideration that likely nobody will be invading me for nearly two ages, I'm stuck self-researching until suicide boats meet others, but at some time in the future I'll have to build and launch an invation fleet and force. ... Move worker N to forest deer.

Spoiler :
Turn 15, 3250 BC: Worker starts roading forest deer tile (timing of setterl build, deer chop, etc. taken into account)
Turn 16, 3200 BC: Penny unfogs last coast tile. We're a Lonely Island. (I love that band!) The scouts' jobs are now to unfog two tiles into the sea everywhere possible. OOPS! I still had the citizen working the lake, and I'm not going to complete the settler at next growth! D'oh! Move citizen, will finish the settler one turn after size 3.
Turn 20, 3000 BC: Karakorum -> size 3. Move 2 citizens to lake, will still complete settler next turn. Penny spots possible coastal water to the W of the diamond/volcano/lake coast. That will be the first target for a curragh, and if it is indeed coast a curragh will reach it without risking sinking.
Turn 21, 2950 BC: I am last in the ranking of most advanced tech civs. Karakorum settler -> granary. (What else to build? I'll sell it after I hit size 7 and then join workers from my high-food city to reach size 12.) Worker completes road, so settler N, N, W into its city spot. Worker S, starts irrigation. I have 5 units this turn, and it will cost me 1g, but I have some gold in the bank so I don't have to slow research, and this problem will be solved next turn when I make a new city. Check military advisor, no mention of barb camps yet.
Turn 22, 2900 BC: Found Ta-Tu, begin granary. Scouts have done all they can, but they're not costing anything, so Penny will sit and watch the coast tile to the SW, and I'll find a spot for Groat to watch for ships or barbs.
Turn 23, 2850 BC: The people want to expand my palace? For being stuck on an island and being last in tech? Or maybe in Regent a new city is reason to celebrate.
Turn 25, 2750 BC: Worker irrigation -> N and starts chopping deer. Move the archer to Ta-Tu, figure he'll be needed there sooner.
Turn 29, 2590 BC: Worker completes chop, starts irrigation. MM Ta-Tu, but nothing really to be done because growth in 2.
Turn 30, 2550 BC: Alpha -> Writing at 100% (est 32 turns). Karakorum size 2.
Turn 31, 2510 BC: Ta-Tu size 2. Not in the mood for projecting with spreadsheets, going for growth before granary completion.
Turn 33, 2430 BC: Worker completes irrigation, moves to chop forest for Ta-Tu's granary.
Turn 34, 2390 BC: Worker starts chop.
Turn 35, 2350 BC: Mil advisor: tribes near Ta-Tu. Between city borders and scout placement I can see that my worker is not in a dangerous spot.
Turn 36, 2310 BC: Barb war threatens Groat. Groat 1S then passes (to keep barb hill in sight). Ta-Tu will need happiness starting next turn, so I keep archer there for now.
Turn 37, 2270 BC: Barb war fortifies on hill. Guess it's still the barb grace period. Ta-Tu size 3.
Turn 38, 2230 BC: Barb wandered off NE! Karakorum granary -> warrior as I need some MP and barb defense soon. I considered working the lake tiles, but no I need some shields for military now. Worker completes forest chop, starts road. I'm -1gpt but have 55g in bank.
Turn 39, 2190 BC: Ta-Tu granary -> worker. Yeah, I need settlers, but I also need to start getting this land improved quickly.
Turn 40, 2150 BC: Karakorum size 3. Have to raise lux to 20%.
Turn 41, 2110 BC: Karakorum warrior -> warrior. Worker completes road, moves NW to BG tile. Lux to 0, research back to 100%.
Turn 42, 2070 BC: Ta-Tu worker -> settler. Worker NW to BG. Worker starts mine.
Turn 43, 2030 BC: Karakorum warrior -> warrior. Warrior to Ta-Tu due to grow soon. Will need another MP in two turns, so leave Karakorum at 5spt. I'm off to a slower early start than I wanted, but things are about to explode. MM Ta-Tu for some extra shields, same growth target.
Turn 44, 1990 BC: Karakorum and Ta-Tu size 4. Karakorum warrior -> archer. Put two Karakorum citizens on the lake, go from 4cpt to 8cpt in Karakorum.
Turn 46, 1910 BC: Barb war shows up on the hill again.
Turn 47, 1870 BC: Barb war fortifies. It's the barbarian touring show troupe I guess. MM Ta-Tu.
Turn 48, 1830 BC: Ta-Tu size 5. Barb war advances to threaten Groat and approach workers; the grace period is over. Worker mine -> road. Move Ta-Tu's archer and warrior N to intercept barb and protect workers. Move Groat NE, N to mountain to peek at other barbs and perhaps lure this barb away from workers. Move Karakorum warriors to Ta-Tu for MP, raise lux to 20% to get everyone happy enough.
Turn 49, 1790 BC: Barb moves E between my military and Groat. Ta-Tu settler -> settler. Worker completes mine, starts road. Reg archer attacks barb war, wins unhurt. Resdistribute warriors for MP, lux to 0 and research to 100%. Settler towards two-fish site NE of capital. Groat W, can see barb camp 2 tiles NW of hill.
Turn 50, 1750 BC: Penny sees barb camp spawn to the SW of capital, on hill by lake. Karakorum archer -> warrior. (Captial can do 2-turn warriors while working both lake tiles, and I want some more MP and barb fodder.) Settler E to city spot. Lux to 10% for Karakorum.
Turn 51, 1725 BC: Ta-Tu size 4. Found Kazan -> curragh. Put citizen on fish and will complete the curragh with a forest chop. Archer towards barb camp.
Turn 52, 1700 BC: Barb attacks archer on hill, dies with nothing to show for it. Karakorum warrior -> archer. Archer moves next to camp. Worker completes mine, moves towards captial to road up some tiles. Capital archer starts SW to deal with that camp.
Turn 53, 1675 BC: Take out barb camp with no damage. Workers start road, chop.
Turn 54, 1650 BC: South archer swats a barb.
Turn 55, 1625 BC: Writing -> Map Making (est 21 turns). Ta-Tu grows, makes settler -> worker. Karakorum size 6. Lux to 20%.
Turn 56, 1600 BC: Karakorum archer -> archer. S archer attacks barb camp on hill, wins unhurt, promotes to veteran. 1 barb remains in camp.
Turn 57, 1575 BC: Chopped forest completes Kazan curragh -> curragh. Archer wipes out barb camp, mil advisor reports no tribes. Curragh begins trip towards the mystery coastal tile.
Turn 58, 1550 BC: Ta-Tu worker -> settler.
Turn 59, 1525 BC: Found Almarikh 3W of capital -> curragh. I've been running a deficit of of up to 4gpt; the city brings unit support up enough to cover my units. I'm still paying 2gpt for the granaries but taking the barb camps is funding those costs. I've been researching max (minux luxury needs) since turn 10.
Turn 60, 1500 BC: Karakorum size 7. Karkorum archer -> archer. Karakorum culture expands to level 3. Sell Karakorum granary. Lux to 30%. Move new citizen off of unroaded BG to roaded grassland for an extra commerce and still have 5spt.
Turn 61, 1475 BC: Kazan size 2. Start thinking about a granary prebuild for GLH. I should put it in the city to be placed south of the capital. I really should have placed the last settler there, but at the time the western spot was appealing because it added some lands for the food city.
Turn 64, 1400 BC: Karakorum archer -> archer. Ta-Tu grows, settler. MM Kazan to work both fish. Curragh nearly to crossing point, spots another coast (water) tile.
Turn 65, 1375 BC: Curragh spots land to W, can get to it without risking sinking!

Dealing with two very isolated starts (C3C)

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