Immortal University 109 - Mao

NihilZero

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Oh happy day! The U returns!

Mortals and Immortals alike, I bid you welcome to the 109th installment of the Immortal University. It's been a while, but the IU is, like Civ IV itself, Immortal. You can't kill something this evil.

As befits the occasion, you get a fresh intro for this episode. I wrote what has become the "boilerplate" way back in IU 55, and it feels weird and uncomfortable copy and pasting yourself, so we have a new spiel this time.

Our goals here will be twofold, depending on your level of expertise – for experienced players to have fun smacking down the hapless AI (that's an oldschool IU reference) and showcase their skills in doing so, and for players who are learning the ropes to get guidance from the aforementioned know-it-alls. So everybody wins.

I can't promise that maps will be consistent in their balance, or indeed that they will be balanced, fair or even winnable at all. That's part of the fun here at the U – there is no knowing what is coming next.

For todays installment, we'll be playing as this charmer:

Spoiler :
2me9zm1.jpg


Despite being one of the 20th century's most objectionable jackasses, Mao’s Civ incarnation is a fairly low-key kind of guy. He doesn't generate a huge amount of excitement among the community, but he's solid. China as a Civ is above average, imo, benefiting as it does from the juicy and unique Agriculture-Mining duo (and a cool dragon flag).

Expansive gives Mao a 50% discount on the Granary, (which, as any expert will tell you, is the building in civ, doubling the efficiency of your whips) and moderate bonii to health and worker production don't hurt either. Protective, on the other hand, is rightly reviled as the worst of traits, only marginally better than having no trait at all. In China's hands, however, things are a little different, because China have the Cho-Ko-Nu, making Protective actually not so terrible in this case.

And how about the Cho-Ko-Nu? The upside of this unit is nothing short of beastly, and the fearsome CKN has the potential to dominate with consummate ease if you can deploy them promptly and in adequate numbers.

Lastly, China's UB is the Pavilion. I don't know about you, but usually when I build theatres it's for culture, and that 25% bonus may just give you the edge you need when competing for border tiles.

The state of play at turn zero looks something like this:

Spoiler :
ig97cl.jpg


Nothing to complain about here. A mouth-watering riverside corn, plenty of green, and hey, the settler is even encamped on a delightfully scenic plains hill. Who loves you? Well, I can't take any credit here, thank the RNG. The RNG can be fickle though, so watch out.

This is a pangaea, random shoreline, standard sealevel and temperate.

And finally, before you charge off and start kicking ass, the small-print:

Huts and events? We don' need no steenking huts and events! As such, there are none. I've attached the initial autosave for your instant convenience, suitable for those content to play Immortal/Normal speed and those who think life is too short for mucking about in worldbuilder. For everyone else, the (dangerously untested) worldbuilder save is provided so you can play whatever settings you like, but don't forget to add techs to the barbs where applicable. Spoiler shows how this is done for the uninitiated.

Spoiler :
If you are playing Monarch or higher, barbs should have Hunting and Archery. At the start of the game, zoom right in on something unrevealing, and hit worldbuilder. Do your bestest to avoid seeing the names of the AI leaders or glimpsing any map spoilers as you scroll down the list of civs to the bottom (Barbarian) and give these guys the techs through the technologies tab. In theory, on Immortal they should also get Agriculture, and on Deity Agriculture and Wheel. Then exit worldbuilder.


The only rules here are 1) have fun, and 2) post something. I don't care if it's just “I hate you”, “This map is terrible”, or even “u suk lol”, but just post something so that I know there are humans out there who are playing. If you're feeling loquacious, you can even tell us how you got on with it, brag about your success, ask for help if you're stuck, or moan about your ill-fortune. Just don't be a lurker.

This is not a competition, by the way. Don't be intimidated to tell us how your game went just because Izuul finished the map in 1100AD, or Grashopa built Oxford faster than you can say “Oh $&#@, Shaka is coming!”. Everybody is at a different level of experience and the RNG can have the last laugh no matter what you do. Nobody's going to judge you.
 

Attachments

Up too 1960 BC

Spoiler :
Looks like we have a decent amount of land to expand into, although Izzy is pretty close. Madrid looks like a nice city to take. I was able to grab the Cu by Madrid before she got it, actually beating her to it by a turn or two as her settler showed up the turn I settled. No horsies nearby, so no HA rush for her nice capital. Cyrus is starting to show his culture to the SW, I've met Izzy, Cyrus, Saladin, and WvO. No sign of the other 3 AI's yet. Izzy's founded Hindiusm, and got writing already, so I have OB with her, and she didn't take long to spread it into Beijing. Tech path went BW>AH>TW>POT.
 
Up to about 750BC

View attachment IU109Mao BC-0775 tense times....CivBeyondSwordSave

Spoiler :
tense times indeed...Hinduism spread to china first,and of course a few turns later saladin demands I convert,so I comply,now last turn Buddism comes in and Isabellas made the demand.

Its split evenly down the middle with saladin,cyrus and willem in hindu,then Isabella,charlemagne and Gilgamesh in buddism.It appears whatever side I pick Im in the front line:eek:.

1 Question,saladin settled the cow city to the north of our capitol,potentially my culture will take it.Quite often an AI will gift a city if they are at pleased,but Christianity has just been founded in that city,does that mean Saladin will try to hold onto it regardless?


@Nihilzero,thanks for restarting the series,I enjoy the challenge as I usually play emporer with huts and events,but when an IMM game comes on the board,like the immortal toku and gumbolts ceaser game I give them a bash.
 
Still playing the Toku game.

Hunting, Agriculture and archery for barbs?

From looks of starting location settle in place looks good. There is likely a resource 2S1W. Why lose the 3 hammers from the starting location? Moving the warrior might confirm this.

So Oracle MC try for an engineer and rush out CKN? That would be far too easy. Probably better to play the map. 10-12 turn worker would be amazing for this start.
 
If you plan to worker steal warrior first might also be good for 3 turns. Hopefully not isolated.
 
@ FlyingSwan
Spoiler :
Looked at your save, you are very hemmed in there. At least you secured some metals. Assuming Cyrus is not planning to attack you (did he start plotting before or after you got him to pleased?) you might consider getting in alongside his war and try to pick up a city or two for some breathing space. I'm not sure that next settler of yours is going to find a decent home...

Couple of minor micromanagement pointers - Beijing should be working the corn. Also, instead of mining that fairly weak desert hill, that worker could have been more usefully employed mining the iron or improving that raw floodplain. ;)

Regarding your question, I don't know how the presence of a non-state religion holy city will affect the fate of Baghdad, although it probably makes no difference unless he shrines it (very possible with Sal). I suspect that Sal may be able to generate enough culture to hold it, though, unless you get some high-culture stuff in Beijing soon.

Your situation looks tricky, good luck!


@ Gumbolt - this is a pangaea, no isolation this time. :)
 
Up to 100bc

Spoiler :

Settled in place. Worker first. Teched towards BW.

Warrior headed north and found Sal's worker mining a hill. Stole said worker.

Then switch to myst-PH line. Ran out of builds for capital so I chopped SH. Som e culture pressure was needed anyway. Settled second city on river to east. 3rd city eventually near the cows.

TW, Pottery were next techs. Built/chopped Oracle in capital. Took MC.

Traded MC for alphabet and other techs including IW, archery, sailing, hunting, fishing and AH.

Spotted the only iron next to Sal's border and settled on the iron.

Traded for monarchy with Spanish. Also accepted her religion. At peaceful with most other Ai now.

575bc and I have machinery. 4 cities, 3 with barracks. 1 settled Great priest.

Spammed CKN. Captured 4/5 of Sal's cities. Including the GLH wonder.

Overall my cities are in a very poor state but I have room to recover. Could use engineering to take this war a bit further.
 
@Nihilzero

View attachment IU109Mao AD-1210.CivBeyondSwordSave

absolute chaos ensued shortly after my last post...

Spoiler :
you were right,cyrus did declare on me,I wasn't expecting it as he was at pleased,but as you say he must of been plotting before.Managed to fend off his stack with a couple of whipped spears.I finished machinery during the war and considered going after him with chokonus,but I thought better of it,those damn immortals still get there +50% against x-bows.So I took peace and he went straight back to pleased.

With the western block all hindu my only option was to go after Isabella.During my war build up and on the way to construction Gilgamesh DOW on her and asked me to join the fight so I accepted.

took her 1st city without catapults:DI love cho-kus.As they were healing up Isabella was first to feud so I definitely needed my cats to take down the initial defences.After I took her 3rd city she vassaled to charly,but Gilgamesh was still in the war so it was,nt a problem to me.

I eventually wiped her out completely so it was just me and Gilgamesh vs charly,but I couldn't make any headway(I was waiting for engineering for trebs),but managed to fend his knights and landskrects off till we both sued for peace.

In the inbetween of all this malarkey I managed to get the great library and was 1st to music and got the Sistine chaple.The Aposolic palace is hindu so im getting my borders under control with religious stuff.

by the skin of my teeth I managed to get Lib,switched all my citys to research and begged and traded techs to keep tech at 100%.Took nationalism and built the Taj-im sure that was a close thing too as I was,nt the only one with nationalism.

anyway,sorry Im waffling.The save above is where im at now,any advice welcome as you were spot on with the last comments.:goodjob:
 
Going for my second try at immortal. Decided to SIP as it seems like an ideal spot, so here's my first question - is chopping mids an option with this start? (I decided against it as there's no stone but on a lower difficulty I might have gone for it)

Current situation (2720BC):

Spoiler :
Untitled.png


So far my newly built warrior died to lion despite hiding the trees and my starting warrior takes 1.3 damage from a stealth panther on the way to Isabella, clearly RNGesus has a thing for cats. I arrive to find worker up for grabs and can't resist a free lunch (even if it turns out to be poisoned). I was going to stick him on the forest hill but I run away and make peace a few turns later.

Teched BW, settled near Cu. Second question: This city looks like a good spot for production but is it in a bad place? My thinking was that it not only gets bananas on border pop but denies Cu and space to the AI.

I'm planning for the third city to go 1SE of the clams and get a GS going, while teching TW > Pot > Writ then going back for Oracle and taking CoL. Possible axe rush on Isabella but I suspect her cap is guarded with 3x archers so need a few...
 
I hate you, this map is terrible, and u suk. j/p :P

@flyingswan

Spoiler :
cyrus can plot at pleased if I remember right :P hes pretty annoying, also he doesnt help much with trades and its difficult to bribe him in on people cause hes a friendly guy. Hes one of my least favorite AI's to play against, he gets pretty big too sometimes Oo



With marble and the nice starting techs, oracling MC is probably the easiest way to get to machinery early.. Ive never done a ckn rush though so im not sure how effective it will be but I plan to try anyway :P Im just gonna go for broke and try to conquer the world before engineering loses its steam.. As for pangea worker stealing Ill probably pass on that, I cant ever seem to get woodsman2, and with expansive it might be counterproductive anyway. Ill probably tech BW first, Ag seems like it would be smart, but this may be a game where i chop out 2 or 3 workers pretty quick.

Settling 1 right seems like it would be a nicer production spot, assuming you dont lose any resources to the south
 
@ FlyingSwan:
Spoiler :
Nice opportunism to use Gilgamesh's war to your advantage, well played! The Sistine is actually a decent play on this map too I think, since your borders are getting squeezed on all fronts.

I'm a little puzzled about your GPP plan here. I see you're working a lot of scientists around your empire during the golden age, but after Lib I might be tempted to go for a GMerchant or two instead. Depends on what specific bulbs you have in mind, but you've already got Printing Press and after Lib and PP GScientists start to lose their punch a little bit.


@ LaFunk
Spoiler :
Good things I see - workers busy chopping, worker stealing :goodjob:
Things I'm not so sure about - I'd like to have at least one more improved tile at Beijing by now (grassland mine - although that may be debatable), and that copper site would have been so much better if it had the pigs (which is where I settled the city. It's a little further but it's a much stronger site).

On Immortal all AIs start with three archers and those first three often stay in the capital forever. Not always, though.

Pyramids would in my opinion be a very questionable decision here on a stoneless pangaea map, where you are often very pressed for space and quick settlers are usually vital.


@ BlunderWonder
Spoiler :
Cyrus doesn't plot at pleased and is usually an okay AI, although he can be aggressive early if you can't get good relations. ;)
 
@ FlyingSwan:
Spoiler :
Nice opportunism to use Gilgamesh's war to your advantage, well played! The Sistine is actually a decent play on this map too I think, since your borders are getting squeezed on all fronts.

I'm a little puzzled about your GPP plan here. I see you're working a lot of scientists around your empire during the golden age, but after Lib I might be tempted to go for a GMerchant or two instead. Depends on what specific bulbs you have in mind, but you've already got Printing Press and after Lib and PP GScientists start to lose their punch a little bit.


@ LaFunk
Spoiler :
Good things I see - workers busy chopping, worker stealing :goodjob:
Things I'm not so sure about - I'd like to have at least one more improved tile at Beijing by now (grassland mine - although that may be debatable), and that copper site would have been so much better if it had the pigs (which is where I settled the city. It's a little further but it's a much stronger site).

On Immortal all AIs start with three archers and those first three often stay in the capital forever. Not always, though.

Pyramids would in my opinion be a very questionable decision here on a stoneless pangaea map, where you are often very pressed for space and quick settlers are usually vital.


@ BlunderWonder
Spoiler :
Cyrus doesn't plot at pleased and is usually an okay AI, although he can be aggressive early if you can't get good relations. ;)


Must be remember wrong, there was an alexander map where he got huge and declared on me at pleased, he might have been plotting from before though Oo, I never take my eye off im if hes close though, im sure theres a reason i dont like him :P


Im gonna give this map a go though. I figure depending on the AI leaders im definetely going for ckn/trebs though, if everyone around is protective it changes things but we'll see...

As for the mids comment, if you oracle MC early, you may get a great engineer if you build a forge quick enough, and you could possibly rush mids if noone else has built it though, and it may be as good a payoff as bulbing, its probably one of the best wonders to rush, and probably loads better than settling the engineer. Just saying if you end up with an engineer instead of a scientist first, rushing mids or something may be a better play than a ckn rush if its one of those maps where war is difficult early.

As an aside, the economic stuff in this game should be interesting, I always have trouble managing a start like this, no financial or philo or GLH, and lots of chopping to be done, easy to drown your economy before it even gets going, with all the workers and troops that will be built.
 
@Nihilzero.

Spoiler :
I ran the great scientists for maximum beakers to try and power through rifling.I had a spare great artist so the plan was to double the GA with whatever dropped.I like to have a scientist knocking about for the physics race If ive got TGL or partenon, because I don't realy want to obsolete these wonders and the monastarys till the last second,but winning that race you get the free scientist anyway to put a bulb into biology.

I lost the race to saladin by 1 turn this game :sad:

Anyway,by the time those golden ages were over a lot of the ai,s had military tradition,there were defensive pacts flying about every where.Gilgamesh and cyrus had one,saladin and cyrus I believe,probably WvO too. I figured I better have 1 too-so I went with cyrus(you just cant trust gilamesh:mischief:)

So at this point the only ai I could DOW without causing a world war was charly.After I got steel it was slider to zero and upgrade all the decent chokonus and trebs.Everyone hated him because he,d switched to Confucianism and he had no tech to bribe anyone against me.

I took 4 citys and he capitulated.The next trick was to convert him to Hinduism,which I did by bringing a missionary along with the troops,so when I gifted him a city back it had the relgion for him to convert to.Last thing I wanted was the western block hating my vassal and a DOW while my armys on the other side of the map.

At this point I figured space race,but I spread Hinduism to charlys citys and by some fluke I won the Apostolic palace victory,I think maybe cyrus and WvO had switched to free religion.I possibly could of won it earlier but I chose "none" for the resolutions when it first came up about 20 turns previous,all game up to this point WvO was ruling it.

A very exciting and tense game with lots to think about,especially when im not in my emporer comfort zone

edit,the sistine chaple worked a treat,I almost flipped cyrus,s city,thats the one settler I had at the start with nowhere to go but into the jungle to work a farm and a dye.


Diplomatic win.

View attachment IU109Mao AD-1802 AP victory.CivBeyondSwordSave

very good map,thanks for posting it.
 
@ lafunk

Spoiler :
Why settle the copper site first??? It has no food for growth? Settling on river near the flood plains would of been better for cottages.

Good site for production???? Beyond the copper it will offer very little before calendar/IW unless you plan to do an axe rush?? Then chop out 10-15 axes to take out a nearby AI.

You want a 2nd worker before the 3rd city. You want cottages really before you want war on this map. 3 cities before 1800bc will often slow down your tech rate and your empire.

As for mid, why would you build it on this map without stone?? You have marble and forest to help chop out wonders or an army here. I saved 10+ forest of mine for CKN.

Get the basics right:
2nd city by food resources or flood plains for cottages.
Plenty of workers at least 1 for each city preferably more. Always plan workers and future cities hand in hand.
Always have a strategy don't just go for wonders as each map requires a different strategy.

 
so.... I have a new favorite uu :P, it may not be the best unit for gaining a lead, but its definetly the coolest...

I didnt take as many s/s's as I should have, but basically im up to 750AD imm, went like this

Spoiler :
I spammed settlers which was a bit dumb, I figured i was going to get boxed in being in the middle of everyone, and wanted to make sure id get iron, ended up with 3 irons lol. I oracled MC, had 4 cities for awhile, the last one xian I only settled because of all the forests around it, figured 1 more city wouldnt kill me, and there was at least 4 improvable tiles that I could farm and mine, plus a ton of forest for chops.

I screwed up and accidently finished stonehenge, which i had meant to fail for the push to construction/aesthetics, but since i got it I threw up that extra city. I went AH->writing after all that, cause i had previously farmed the cows, and left the pigs alone, izzy got writing early so I had foreign routes pretty early anyway. GP popped, and it was like 40%preist, 40%engineer, 20% scientist. got an engineer used it to bulb machinery, the next gp was a guaranteed scientist which i used to bulb engineering later on.

Unfortunately settling that last xian city caused arabia to get pissy, the very next turn after settling it he plotted on me. I got peace a few turns after he suicided a small stack of axes/swords/spears on a bunch of axes, but it did slow me down considerably having to whip axes and losing his trade.

I didnt want to, but I ended up trading MC around for alphabet/math/iw and some other stuff, I avoided fishing ofc, You cant see it in the s/s's but originally I was going to go for sally cause he was close, but then changed my mind and went for izzy because 5/7 civs were in buddhism and it had a shrine and i needed the money, i got peace treaties from everyone she could bribe in so it was safe, and with a stack of like 12-14 ckns and a few spears/axes, i took her first city that had 2-3 archers and a spear, madrid had 3 or 4 archers and a sword, then I thought i was done for, izzy finished fueda, my economy was toast, i was struggling to finish aesthetics so i could bulb engineering. I did manage to trade a self teched construction for currency though, so, just as i was taking the 3rd of izzys cities, she upgraded to some longbows, but the very next turn i got fueda for machinery and something else from willem, and surprisingly those longbows were no match for my cnks :P Madrid turned out to be a prize though, already had an academy/market/forge, 2 gems and 2 sugars in the BFC, with a 30gold shrine, I should have highlighted in the screenshot, but all 3 cities I got have no chance of revolt for some reason, i guess her only real culture was in the capital, the northeast city already had alot of my culture, and the capital has no chance of revolt even with 2 cities next to it, the 3rd city borders giggles but also has no chance of revolt with 1 defender. Its odd, but might have something to do with building SH in that copper city by accident. Plan on building NH/HE both in that city cause it has plenty of food/hills. Would have been a much better capital :p, she even left me plenty of forests to chop lol

At that point i bulbed engineering, and tried to spam trebs and find a new target, Also it was nice as I could finally get my happy cap up, got some good trades from izzy, managed to get calendar finally and improve the dyes/spice, and picked up gems/sugar in madrid. I was hurting from earlier because sally hated me, and stopped trading silver to me, it also took me awhile to get monarchy. During the peace treaty with everyone except izzy, giggles started plotting on charly, which was great.. I decided to go after cyrus as he was getting big and giggles/charly were already busy, also cyrus had no tech to bribe people in, he capped after 5 cities, I thought about wiping him off the continent, but figured id better get to willem before he gets anything else. he'll be a cake walk as well, he only has 4-5 mainland cities, and ill probably take all of them.

Then idk, i have a pretty big stack, and it will only get bigger, I may backstab giggles or pile on charly, not certain yet. Also ive 1/2 built AP, i have no idea why... Nobody else is building it so i guess I may as well. Also its 700ish AD, and noone has built mids.. so i figure noone has stone lol.. Even at this point, lib is pretty much in the bag after i get rid of willem, so i can choose my VC.

I want to say i had machinery around 450ish bc, and engineering around 100-200AD, I might have been quicker, but I had such a low happy cap, and spread out cities, my research was sluggish. I could have managed cottages better, but I didnt spam them really because I didnt figure on an academy/beauro capital really, and I was so busy whipping forges and workers, I didnt run many scientist except in 1 or 2 cities.

1_zps14c337ae.jpg


2_zps329d8cb6.jpg


3_zps6e050460.jpg


4_zps3285af7b.jpg


5_zps81c0d9aa.jpg


6_zps4d0bf60e.jpg


 
Well, I am starting to like this engineering rush thing... lol, I had always written it off as sort of risky and less viable than a cuirassiers, It may have been mostly the ckns though at least at the beginning.

Spoiler :

So i left off after capping cyrus, but i couldnt sleep so i finished up. In short, after capping izzy/cyrus/willem, the tech pace really slowed, allowed me to win lib no problem, I got taj, put 1 bulb into edu, and used the other for a ga, then taj ga, and finally after I accidently got another scientist/priest ran a 3rd ga, managed to win econ too. Wilem was teching like a monster, luckily he couldnt choose what to tech :P He built AP too, not that it mattered it was pretty late to be building stuff.

wilem_zps440aa27f.jpg

Willem is such a pansy lol, pretty much, the ckns wiped out his stack of chariots/has/trebs, and he capped just as I was going to take the first city.

sally_zps8c70cbd2.jpg

stack to attack sally
sall2_zps6173f0d4.jpg

Sally caps after one city.. I demanded like 10 gold from charly thinking he might of been bribed in, he said ok, and it took like exactly 10 turns to go from capping sally to get to charlys borders and heal.
charly_zpse49fc301.jpg

stack ready to attack charly, this was a replay of that shaka game for me, super protective civ with PRO longbows, and walls/castles, 100% defense in every city, annoying, luckily I only bombarded down to like 40%, then cleared the top defenders with newly arrived cuirs
charl2_zps1343d3d8.jpg

Charly caps after 3 cities, He had something of a stack, but not much left after the giggles war.
giggles_zps71e1c544.jpg

Stack attacking giggles, I had cheaply gotten all of my vassals to stop trading with him, and charly and he were already worst enemies, so there was no worry of him getting gunpowder or nationalism
giggles2_zpse747ec5e.jpg

giggles caps after 1 city, and a bunch of cuirs/trebs threatening 2 more.
domscre_zpsfa678fb9.jpg

domination screen
stats_zps5b915b7a.jpg

stat screen
hiscore_zps287156b3.jpg

My highest score yet... with trebs lol? Wasnt even that fantastic a start.
 
Congrats to those who beat the map. My thoughts on it:

Spoiler :
I have played quite a bit of this (before I posted it in fact) and my impression is that it's not too hard on the whole. The start is decent, and it turns out that compared to other civs you get a fairly commanding location in the centre of the continent. Most of the closest neighbours have inferior starts without much real estate, apart from Izzy, and she has a real juicy capital for you to take...:mischief:

On the other hand, a map like this can get nasty if you get a few bad RNG rolls. The AIs are not the worst bunch you could ask for, though. No ultra-warmongers.


@ Blunderwonder:
Spoiler :
Great game. I'm amazed at people who can finish a game in 3 hours. I probably spend about that much time looking at the trade screens! :lol:


I'll report on my own game soon, which I still have yet to finish.
 
I'm still alive but I don't see a way to win, decided to leave it for now and take a step back to emp - plan to win each kind of victory there before stepping up to immortal again.

Spoiler :
Good site for production???? Beyond the copper it will offer very little before calendar/IW unless you plan to do an axe rush?? Then chop out 10-15 axes to take out a nearby AI.

You want a 2nd worker before the 3rd city. You want cottages really before you want war on this map. 3 cities before 1800bc will often slow down your tech rate and your empire.

Axe rush was my intention but it didn't pan out that way, as you said my tech rate slowed, poor positioning of the cities and not enough workers. Not sure why I'm making these mistakes as I don't do this stuff normally. Time to take a look at my city placement and growing in a manageable way.

I didn't attempt mids it was more a question of it's viable given the sheer amount of forest for chopping.
 
@ lafunk.

Spoiler :


I applaud you for trying the higher levels. That is not a bad thing. Emperor and immortal are not that far apart.

City placement is a tough thing. The copper/pigs site would of been a good choice. Blunder placed his between the copper and the pigs.

On higher level the cost of an empire is more punishing. On a map with few commerce resources nearby it can be tough unless you build some early cottages.

This is a map designed to test the immortal players. It's not a just for fun map.

This map may have worked for an axe rush. You have plenty of forest. I would of set up a 2nd city. Built 3-4 workers. Chopped out 10-12 axes. Barracks first of course in both cities.



I would like to see you set up a thread to help your game. Start a civ 4 game and post a save. A pangea save is normally a good start. Then wait for advice at every stage. Including settling of the capital and movement of units. You can play it slowly and have a second game to play for fun if you get bored waiting for replies. It's worth seeing what others have done here. City placement and stuff.
 
LaFunk, the worldbuilder save allows you to play on any level or speed you like.

I don't think there was anything wrong with your basic plan, but an early rush requires a very streamlined approach. With axes on Immortal, you want one city ideally, failing that when necessary a second one to pick up the copper, then chop like crazy. Anything more will be too slow 95% of the time to even have a chance.

If you're just learning to play at this level, it's probably best not to start with axe-rushes until you get used to the pace of things.
 
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