Nobles' Club CLI: Bismarck of Germany

dalamb

dalamb

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May 9, 2006
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Kingston, Ontario
The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Bismarck of Germany, whom we last played in NC LXIX; we last played the Germans under Frederick in NC CXXII. The Germans start with Hunting and Mining.
GermanyBismark.jpg
  • Traits: Bismarck is Expansive and Industrious.
  • The UB: The Assembly Plant, a Factory with two improvements: It can turn 4 citizens into Engineer specialists instead of 2, and can be built 50% faster with access to Coal. Like the UU, it is only of benefit later in the game.
    GermanyAssemblyPlant.jpg


  • The UU: The Panzer, a Tank with +50% versus armored units; it can thus be quite powerful in the late game.
    GermanyPanzer.jpg
And the start:

Spoiler map details :
Islands, low sea level, many islands, with important edits.
Spoiler edits :
Rerouted our river to water the corn. Gave us a couple of hills. Extended a small island one tile in each of three directions to connect our island with two others by land; they were already reachable via galleys. Ensured everybody has at least one early strategic resource (horses, copper, iron, ivory)
Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:
There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:
  • 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
  • 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
  • 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
  • 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other continent if applicable, etc)
  • 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
  • End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)
This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number of stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps in the early days of the series, and all of you for playing.
Click to expand...
The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 151 Bismark Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Noble. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

  1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
  2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
  3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
  4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
  5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
  6. Exit the worldbuilder.
  7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
Spoiler huts and events :
Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
 

Attachments

Might give this a go. With all the sport on tv lately I have been suitably distracted. I will try to be positive.
 
Emp Normal. 175 AD not sure what to do here...

Spoiler :
City placement seems awkward, lacking good spots, but we have the resources for currs so I guess do that? Apologies for the bad micro
 
@ Byang

(Not viewed save.)
up to 700bc or so
Spoiler :

I have built 3 cities so far. Slower expansion as I went for wonders.

Built a second city near the corn and flood plains.

3rd city by the pigs to the east of that. Will look to place some island cities near the food resources. Seems 3-4 more okay cities but 2 will be island cities.

Got 100 fail gold from great wall.

Built GL House in capital followed by mids. Did not use the stone.

Will use capital as GP farm and northern city as cottage city. Need to rex to 5-6 cities now.

Teched Agriculture, BW, masonry, sailing, TW, Pottery, Writing, Aesth, Alphabet? Egptians have COL.

Close to 300bc now. I have currency and aesth over most AI. They have COL, Construction and monarchy between them. 1 turn off lit. Just found some marble. So Glib should be built quickly. Settled GE in capital for 3 hammers and 6 science.

Churning 146 beakers a turn at 100% science. Should go up once Glib in. Still lacking academy.

 
View attachment NC 151 Bismark AD-1250 lib communism.CivBeyondSwordSave EMP/normal

Spoiler :
built the obvious wonders,GLighthouse first,then mids and delayed HGardens a bit till I,d dropped a few more citys for the pop boost.Dropped 2 GEnginneers so rush built the MoM and Sistine in that nice choke point city with the iron and fish to the north.

Went on a cottage spam with colossus to boost our many coastal tiles.

For a bit of a change Im going to see how quick I can get to fission and basically nuke everyone.Im on the last turn of a 36 turn Golden age in which the only thing Im puzzling over is whether to go the corporation route(I have a GM and engineer)or just go state property.

Im a bit annoyed with myself that I didn't spam enough settlers early on to get some of the more decsent islands,but there appears to be plenty more to settle sice I got astronomy
 
1380AD Diplo Imm/normal (BAT)

Spoiler :
Wow...haven't played an NC game in a while. Actually haven't played much Civ at all lately, but decided to give this one a go. The start is nice but the surrounding land is very marginal. Still this was an easy game and well suited to GLH.

I played aimlessly early on just expanding a building a few key wonders like GLH, Mids and TGL. Very oddly, the AIs simply would not tech Alpha. I ended up teching Alpha myself after grabbing Music of all things.

Push toward Liberalism with idea to pick up MT and go stomping. Had not decided on a VC at this point. I setup a Lib bulb, but honestly at that point I should have just teched it outright instead of waiting. I think Lib was around 700AD, but don't remember exactly.

When I actually had Curs, I realized that Diplo was pretty much set, so I kicked myself for not going for something else with Lib like Radio for faster Diplo. Curs were not needed anyway, since Hatty was not doing so well. I took her mainland cities and vassaled her, leaving her with several island cities. War with Hatty was essential since she would never be Friendly

On the other hand, Pacal, Cyrus and Charlie were all fellow Friendly Hindus. I coudl have easily stomped Pacal, but that would have been pointless. I turned my attention towards Mass Media with GM cash and lots of fail gold. I GE helped for a 2 turn UN.I had plenty of votes.

With an earlier focus on Diplo and a better use of LIb, this game could have finished up quite a bit sooner - at least 1200AD or so.

I traded/gifted a lot of techs


screenies:
Spoiler :
9A9bYbs.jpg

xuMc2VU.jpg

NyRa0UP.jpg

F6OpMI3.jpg

YqMicGs.jpg
 

Attachments

Deity 500 BC

Spoiler :
SIP, went fishing -> BW first(and i teched archery btw, arrgh, but not much choice imo, at least hunting was a little + there) and skipped AH until i traded for alpha with aesthetics.

Got very lucky on Deity with GLH and Mids + Great Library(got an Engineer at 25% chance, which i used for it, because Mao already had Literature for a couple of turns). He will probably also beat me to Music(he has both literature and drama). I'm having a decision now, if i want to go for it anyway or if i just go Currency. Just traded Calende. I go for the MoM meanwhile, but i think it will just be a little bit of failgold.

Since settling on the stone was to bad of a spot without beeing creative, mids were just luck in 900 BC. Unfortunately Persia is a powerhouse with over 10 cities at 500 BC already. Not sure how much land there is to settle for him, maybe this will go out of control.

Worst thing I'm behind in Expansion, settled my 5th city next to the marble, but haven't hooked it up yet.

Also i don't like the fact that there is 4 Food ressources in the BFC, but no spot which is coastal and can share some of those, i think i will just go for a some cottages while working 2 GS and building the NE in the capitol anyway. So this will be a hybrid capitol which i normally wouldn't do, but i willl not use case system anyway on a water map i think at least not for long and i can afford working specialists and cottages at the same time with this kind of capitol
 
View attachment NC 151 Bismark AD-1780 nuclear war begins...CivBeyondSwordSave

Spoiler :
Tactical nuked hatty,justinian,pacal into vassalage in that order,unfortunately pacal had defensive pacts with cyrus and Charlemagne so they all got dragged in.I couldn't cap cyrus with just his main island so sued for peace.Took charlys capitol then took peace.

Thought I was going to get diplo win but missed it to Mao by 40 votes.


View attachment NC 151 Bismark AD-1872 bored of nuclear war.CivBeyondSwordSave

Spoiler :
I could continue,maybe rush buy a load of ICBMs and nuke all mao,s citys to reduce the population so I definitely get the diplo win.No-ones even got biology yet so there is no way he can get to ecology to save his citys from the fall out.

Having said that there is only sids sushi saving my citys from stavation with all the global warming...:nuke::nuke::nuke:


Finish this tomorrow,so I can at least say I have:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:

Thanks to dalamb for posting the map.
 
@byang08
Spoiler :
Cuirrisars are good,culture victory is also possible.I noticed your settled great spys,with that many espionage points I would concentrate them all on 1 leader(although personally Id of built Scotland yard with the 2nd spy)to see if you can steal a couple of decent techs.

Im thinking your waiting to switch into OR when civil service comes in,when you switch to hindu you will need to be a bit wary of hatchet,but luckily there is only one route she or pacal can attack from so build a fort at the choke point and garrison some troops there.

With the great lighthouse you can just keep settling coastal citys,so I,d do a bit more exploring with a galley or workboat if I were you.
 
My first post in this forum (I played civ2 since I was a kid and I started civ4 recently) :)

I am playing an emperor game with normal speed. 175AD (experiment with different ways of playing and then compare against byang08 at 175AD).

I am posting also to make sure I know how to use the spoiler and attaching files. If I am doing weird things here, let me know.

Spoiler :
Pacal starts plotting at around 700BC. No idea if he is plotting on me. So I build a wall in my TGL city, make archers and give him resources and switch to Hinduism. As I building swordmen with my military city, he declares war on Egypt. So I switch back to development mode. I used a GE to bulb metal casting and got a Colossus in capital. Still, my development is slow compared to byang08. Not sure what the difference is coming from. During the Egyptian war, Egypt asks for COL and I gave it out. Unfortunately, that pisses off the chinese.


View attachment NC 151 Bismark BC-0575.CivBeyondSwordSave

View attachment AD175 trial 3 490.CivBeyondSwordSave
 
@wongfu:

1. You got the mids, but you are not in Representation. :hammer2:

2. I wouldn't wet my pants, because of pacal. Don't build so much units and split them up evenly in your citys that is just a waste of hammers. You have Currency adopt his religion(which you did), so he is pleased and you can just beg a small amount of gold.(if you don't know what the purpose of this is, check out a diplomacy guide here on the forum) No need to waste hammers on crappy early troops.(Again you have the mids just go into Rep). And don't just donate ressources to the ai he can't ask for seomething if you already gave it to him.

2. Why would you want to give Hatty CoL, she is friendly now fine. But refusing it would have been the better play if she is already at war and likes you anyway. If Pacal demands something and is plotting that would have been the time to give something away.

3. Your expansion is pittyfull, the pig side should have been settled ~1000 years ago :p
Also iron and fish is an easy 3rd or 4th city.(looks like Pacal settled there). No reason to build stonehenge. Open worker warriors and settler at size 3. Then build the GLH in your capitol at some point while using slavery to whip settlers at size 6 and put the overflow into the wonders while chopping. Make sure you have more workers. 4 workers at 175 ad with 5 citys( one of them not developed and just settled) is way to slow. The Hammers from stonehenge are better invested in workers and settlers. Same with early units and walls.(don't see any barb citys to capture and if Pacal really attacks you, you can just whip an archer/axe or two really quick).
 
Initial thoughts:

SIP as the start has been edited to make it AWESOME. I might try Monarch/Epic though I will probably fail. Start by going Agri -> AH -> BW -> Fishing -> Sailing. GLH seems a good wonder to have, I will build that early.
 
At 550 BC:
Spoiler :
I SIP and that was a good idea of course. I altered the tech path I was going to do to get archery to make sure I wasn't destroyed by the barbs, and I built a couple of archers and put them on some of the hills to rid myself of fog so the barbs cannot spawn, so I have only had to kill 2 barb archers so far.

I have 5 cities and have just completed the GLH. So far playing on Monarch has not been too hard (well I'm still alive at least :p) my people are not very happy as I have no happiness resources and only have a religion in a single city, but I think the happiness bonus is the same as on Prince so that is not unusual. Science rate has suffered a bit because of expansion I'll let you people decide how bad. I also need to build more workers since some tiles being worked are not improved. Maintenance fees were hurting me, but GLH has boosted my economy.

What should I expect from the Monarch AI that I wouldn't see on Prince?

Other than that I would appreciate if someone would comment on my city placement I thought that my second city Hamburg was well placed (even though it doesn't have fresh water) because it gets the corn and some Floodplains but I'm not sure about the others my third city was a bit annoying because I couldn't get all the Floodplains as well as the the coast and the pigs. I decided to build inland, which I didn't like since I miss out on the GLH bonus.

I also built a city on the hill in the strip of land that connects us to the other islands, I figured the hill would help with defense if I get attacked.

Screenshots:
Spoiler :
world_zps8f2172ca.png


Science_zpsa89d33a8.png

Where I am thinking of building my next 2 cities:
Spoiler :
potential_zps3f569309.png

 
@strickl3r

I follow your suggestions and restart the game from 2200BC. It's so much better this time. My score at 175AD is 1.4x the original!
View attachment AD175 trial 4 702.CivBeyondSwordSave
Spoiler :
Replay the game and there is no war. There is Hinduism VS confucianism so I don't want to involve in religion. Get a great scientist but there is no unique tech to bulb, so I save it for later. Coastal galley killed by barbarian and lost two crabs... Want to grab the marble ASAP.


I look up my save and find that when I was building the stonehenge, Berlin seems to run out of useful things to build. At that point, I don't want to expand without cottages:
View attachment NC 151 Bismark BC-2200.CivBeyondSwordSave

But then if you were me, you would be doing something different?

I had games in which I expand too quickly without currency and it was such a nightmare. So I try to maintain only 3-4 cities before I get currency. Maybe this game is different because of TGL and the coastal nature of the location?
 
A Great Scientist as the first GP is great and you should build an academy with it in most cases asap. You still did build Stonehenge and Chicken Pizza. Well you can do wonder spam especially on emperor, but i don't play emperor and usually those wonders are just bad.
Expanding and building wonders don't go hand in hand to well, but i guess you can easily get away with it. Mids and GLH combo are great and the TGL(go for Literature before Currency on this map i would suggest) You don't have to worry about expansion if you build GLH and settle on coastal spots. Work Cottages instead of mines more often.
Although wonder spam might be perfectly viable here.

Build the National Epic in your Capitol!!!

Duesseldorf is a bad settle, settle the marble side first, hook up the marble while getting literature ;) you win
 
I'm a bit disappointed that there's been no discussion about worker + AG first vs Fishing > BW and WB first.
 
Worker>AG>BW first is no brainer here. Then Fishing and you can chop WBs. Absolutely no reason to go fishing first over worker when you have two strong improvements to get up fast over weak seafood tiles.
 
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