TSG91 After Action

leif erikson

leif erikson

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Welcome to the TSG91 After Action Report thread. In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state victory date and score (preferably in the post title), as recorded in the Hall of Fame, and the most important: your path to glory!

STOP - Please do not continue reading this thread until you have completed and submitted your game.

Please use the Civ5 game submission page to submit your final, first play through, .Civ5Save file, saved AFTER the victory ceremony if you were not conquered (using the "Lemme play one more turn" feature.).

- How did you use your UU and was it effective?
- How did you use spying to your advantage?
- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
- What did you learn from your defeat, should you be defeated?


Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game. Some players like to replay the game, and although we will not record the results from a replay, you can still post your new experiences (please state if the game is a replay). Please refrain from posting videos until the deadline for submission is over.

Would be interested to hear any thoughts on game setup. :)
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 91
Date submitted: 2014-08-02 04:35:37
Reference number: 31482
Your name: Mutineer
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1880AD
Turns played: 311
Base score: 1583
Final score: 2553
Time played: 8:27:00
Submitted save: Genghis Khan_0311 AD-1882.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Mutineer_C509101.Civ5Save


As I sad, I went piety, 5 cities at start, 8 cities at the end.

Got Public schools turn 211, Plastic Turn 259,
Get everything I need on turn 289 (Are, voites, everything and after that have to press end turn 22 times. In order to win earlier I needed to get there 20 turns Befor I did, May be with more precise play I was able to do that, not sure. I finished with overkill, toward end of game I get to internet on bottom tree after getting everything on top..

Ohh, and critical thin, I did not get Jesuit education, Spain got it before me. I really needed taht, with it I would be able to win 40 turn earlier. One of bottle neck of piety wide civ is time of hard building sci buildings.
 
Your name: Olodune
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1580AD
Turns played: 227

Lost some early gambles, plan B went well.

Spoiler :

If this map was anything like the test maps I've rolled there is no way I'd want to settle off the coast. Who knew it was just a Pangaea? No boats needed.

Settled on the coastal hill. Opened Tradition, and took Sun God (+1 food from wheat). I'm almost certain that is a mistake since culture is more important for fast growth when opening Tradition. God of the Open Sky would have been nice all game. :p First bad luck came in the form of a poorly placed Sparta that blocks my coastal mountain city. This means I will have to settle two middling coastal cities to feed Kara with cargo ships. Two turns shy. Very painful.



I stole a late worker from Ethiopia, and maintained the war to get all the good city spots. T100.



I am in full wonder spam mode, however, I expect Alex to try something stupid, so there are a few units in place to deal with him. I went for the Oracle -> Secularism gambit ... and lost by 2 turns. That likely costs me any remaining chance at a competitive showing. This means I can probably go to Printing Press next since I won't have the tech to open atomic pre-t200. Oh well - at least this will make for a more relaxing game. :lol:

The plan (since we are on a Pangaea) is to use Keshiks to kill some folks. There is no rush since beakers are the bottleneck here. For some reason I never built a Horsemen so getting melee units in place is going to be an annoying struggle all game.



Who to kill? Since Pachacuti needs to die (he has 5 CS allies), I might as well leave Dido in peace. She'll Denouce (and later DoW) me, but for now we can be friends and share roads.

Since I have a slower game I have time to propose (and win) the World's Fair, which should help make sure I don't miss the second vote timing. Entering the Atomic.



And the win.



Some thoughts:

- The map is interesting, but I was hoping for a mixed land/water map where a handful of Keshiks don't kill everything that has legs, wheels, or hooves.

- There are no cultural city states, so I took temple culture as part of the enhancer. Worth it, who knows?

- After missing my first city location and the Oracle play the game went reasonably smoothly, but I think the pointy edge of the field can probably dip under 205 turns, certainly under 215.
 
Your name: strake
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1820AD
Turns played: 281
Base score: 1252
Final score: 2235
Time played: 5:50:00

Settled in with 4 cities, after 2 minor wars. I declared war on Ethiopa to remove cities put in bad places, and Greece declared war on me, because I looked weaker and he was blocked in. Keshiks had an easy time holding off Greece, and he paid for peace after losing his swarm. In retrospect, since Greece and I fought for city states all game, I should have just wiped him out then. Not that it really mattered, it was still really easy by the end to ally all the city states, he was just annoying in the mid-game, and that gold probably should have been spent on rushing buildings to push science earlier.

After that it was pretty quiet, spies helped with city states until it was time for the world leader vote, when they became diplomats.

I went Freedom, pushed through World Ideology shortly after, and surprisingly, only 1 other civ even picked an ideology by the end.

My lesson for the game, is I need to to learn to be more focused. If my game plan is Info Era, I need to be more aggressive with population and science, and not waste gold on other things. It still took much longer than I expected to get there, and I think that's mostly laid at the feet of a less ideal order of building things in the turn 100-200 range.
 
Your name: Teepo
Game status: Diplomatic Victory
Game date: 1970 AD
Turns played: 390
Final score: 2080

Well, first of all, this is the first time I played on Emperor difficulty.

My first move was taking Greece out of the game (they've beat me on diplo victory before) and did so when I got to Keshiks. After that I moved on to Carthage, but they bought me out of the war with a sweet peace offer (+/- 30 gpt and all lux resources). Having made peace with Carthage, I wiped out Ethiopia (they declared war on me when I was busy with Alex and Dido). As a consequence I took major diplo hits and was never able to get any lux or open borders deals, except when they were intent on backstabbing me a few turns later.

I could have won 30 turns earlier. I had allied every city-state in the game, but was one vote short of victory because a few turns earlier one of the CS gifted me with a merchant of venice and I bought and puppeted a neighboring CS. That's the problem with being a noob: I thought that by buying the CS I was getting their votes for good, when it was quite the opposite.

After failing to win the game on that world leader vote, Carthage and the Inca DoWd me (while they were at war with each other themselves). I was able to force Carthage into a peace deal quite fast by dropping a nuke on their capital, but the Incas were much stronger. They conquered 3 CSs allied to me and pushed me further away from diplo vic. I was lucky to liberate one of them before being voted World Leader.

However, I must say that I'm astonished with the early victories I've seen on this thread. Tell me @Olodune, or whoever might know, how can you achieve that much BPT so fast?! Is there a thread somewhere where I can read and learn how to accomplish that?

Spoiler :
 
Teepo_ said:
Tell me @Olodune, or whoever might know, how can you achieve that much BPT so fast?! Is there a thread somewhere where I can read and learn how to accomplish that?
Click to expand...

There are numerous threads in the Strategy & Tips forum that will give a good idea. Also, by t110 I was at least 20 turns behind glory7 which is a massive gap so early! Check out his post in the Opening Action Thread.

The basic idea is: solid opening focusing on growth+production, cities, connecting luxuries -> National college (in the t65 - t95 timeframe) -> Fast education. Social policies are often Full Tradition / Full Liberty -> Rationalism. Getting Renaissance unlocked before needing to assign the next (7th) SP helps accelerate the beaker buildup considerably. I like to use the World's Fair to finish up the Rationalism tree, but that is actually too "slow" here. The best players will only have a single vote just after entering the Atomic. Maybe as early as t185? We'll see...
 
Teepo_ said:
Well, first of all, this is the first time I played on Emperor difficulty.
Click to expand...
Welcome to CivFanatics and GOTM. :wavey:

Keep reading, they will teach you how to get your teching up. Best of Luck. :thumbsup:
 
Thank you all for the feedback. I will look for the threads you mentioned!
 
As a way to practice, and attempt to imitate the best starts, I highly recommend replaying the map (or maybe just the first 100-120 turns) while trying to walk along the same steps that they took.

Reading is of course a great help, but stepping through the process, and figuring out where your problems are is huge. How did they have gold to buy a settler or university or whatever? Oh they must have traded horses, or demanded tribute, or scouted farther faster to have more trade partners and finders fees.

Also important, is to try to see what they saw at different steps. Why did they pick that spot to build the city? Was it luxuries, did it have better food in the first circle, was it on a hill or next to a river? How did they get a population so much higher by turn 100? Did you have unhappiness which they must have fixed? Do you think they probably worked food squares first or production squares first, or luxuries for more trade bait.

Whenever I do this, I end up with a much better start than the one I had on the submitted play through. But I also learn at least one new trick each time, and hopefully a better way to analyze the choices at the steps along the way.
 
On Other hand I simply refuse to use tradition. I do not care if my date is late, so long as I did not go the mos imbalance way.
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 91
Date submitted: 2014-08-06 13:45:05
Reference number: 31506
Your name: Erindel
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1720AD
Turns played: 255
Base score: 2619
Final score: 5238
Time played: 8:03:00
Submitted save: Genghis Khan_0255 AD-1725.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Erindel_C509101.Civ5Save

First submission although I played a few Gotm last year on my own, and I just played the previous one too (will upload it also). I had a systematic crash at turn 7, ui would disappear, so this should count as a replay.

Went tradition obviously, stole a worker from ethiopia and stayed at war with them so that they would not settle in the good spots. I missed Temple of Artemis by 3 turns, and the GL was gone at turn 47 (both to the damn Incans as i saw later)... wonders builders all around it seemed (Ethiopia, Morrocco, Spain, Incans all built a ton of them). Greece was immediately hostile but i could DoF Dido. Then after reading the opening actions of the deity players (i used to play immortal but not above), I tried the "kill them all but one" strat and went for keshiks, mainly because my religion spread wasn't good and I kept missing wonders by a few turns.

Turns out Keshiks are good :), by turn 190-200 the map was mine except Ethiopia. Could have won before turn 200 as a DV with 6 keshiks and 2 pikemen in total... my science wasnt so good (lack of culture CS hurt, and a few turns of unhappiness during conquest) and had to wait 35 turns for atomic era, then 20 more turns for the congress. I don't know if the world leader proposition is based on luck or not ? it is supposed to be alternating with normal propositions, I had a game where it was in the next congress but here i had to wait for the second one... so the end was pretty boring, just clicking next turn, almost got to satellites lol. Should have gotten education before chivarly it seems, but I was afraid keshiks wouldnt work long enough to conquer everything. I was wrong, even incans with great wall and cities at strength 40+ could not stop it :)
 
Thank you for the hint @strake. I will give that a try. I was wondering if there's a video where I can watch a rushed SV. I tried a guide but got to education 20 turns later than advised. I kept wondering where I got something wrong.
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 91
Date submitted: 2014-08-08 03:40:43
Reference number: 31513
Your name: knowtalent
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1917AD
Turns played: 338
Base score: 2757
Final score: 4114
Time played: 20:53:00
Submitted save: AutoSave_0338 AD-1918.Civ5Save
Renamed file: knowtalent_C509101.Civ5Save

This was a better game for me, but still blew some timings that added time. I missed killing Assyria by one turn and missed the first vote by one vote. The early game went fine I had no real issues with my neighbours other than Ethopia putting a city right by the MOS. I repaid him by killing him off quickly after I had finished settling. I did find an excellent use of one of my many Khans. :lol: :king:
Spoiler :
 
I reached the information age at turn 255 and the game informs me that it will take 18 more turns before the world leader is elected. That would bring my total turns to 273. That is for the record, because I don not have the patience to really play out those turns.

It seems to me that the peaceful approach is not the best. Perhaps it would have been different with cultural City States?
 
I'm going to try to play out my game, but I won't have time to finish in any reasonable time frame, and I'm pretty sure that I made it absolutely impossible to win a diplomatic victory...though I'm not really sure what I did wrong(weird...diplo victories were my forte in Civ IV). My original goal was to conquer all but one or two other civs and win what would have essentially been a domination diplomatic victory.

Suffice to say, in my game, at 1900 AD, I've wiped out Ethiopia, Greece and Carthage. I brought Isabelle back to life(she had been conquered by Carthage), because I had been embargoed by the World Congress and was hoping for someone who didn't want to kill me, and also hoped the liberations would counteract my massive warmonger status(it did not). No one liked me at all after I conquered the two CS near us and Ethiopia, and after that, I was in nearly constant war all the way through until the late 1800s. I did lose some turns when warring against Greece because I didn't realize Keshiks couldn't conquer cities, only bombard them.

I also had an incredibly tough time with happiness, cash and science. Despite having what seemed to me to be cities in 3 great places, and razing most cities I conquered, I only managed to keep a positive cash flow by gaining gold for every unit I killed and by sending my half dozen Great Merchants on trade missions.

I'm giving up at this point because I'm hopelessly behind in technology(only around 250 beakers/turn), everyone but Isabelle has declared war on me in the last 30 turns at some point, and I'm never going to get the votes to remove the embargo against me, much less to win a World Leader vote. I might be able to eventually grind out a military victory, and I plan to attempt that, but it will be a long and drawn out affair.
 
T199 Diplomatic victory

First 122 turns
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13389561&postcount=15

Game: Civ5 GOTM 91
Date submitted: 2014-08-14 18:34:26
Reference number: 31535
Your name: Acken
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1380AD
Turns played: 199
Base score: 1728
Final score: 4430
Time played: 4:09:00
Submitted save: Genghis Khan_0199 AD-1390.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Acken_C509101.Civ5Save
Click to expand...

I'm using this old post from Cromagnus as base for reasoning:
Spoiler :

Cromagnus said:
t125 isn't necessary. It depends on the era you're in when the vote occurs.

If you're in the industrial when the first vote occurs, it's like this:
t125: PP
+1 turn before vote
+ 30 turns until vote
+1 for civs entering industrial era (if you eliminate all but two civs during this time)
+1 for vote turn itself
t158: Next vote cycle
+ 25 turns until vote (because it's the industrial era)
+1 for civs entering modern era
+1 for civs entering atomic era
+1 for vote turn
t186: Next vote cycle begins
+10 turns (atomic era)
t196 win

BUT! If you're in the modern era when the first vote occurs it's like this:
t125: PP
+1 turn before vote
+ 30 turns until vote
+1 for civs entering industrial era
+1 for civs entering modern era
+1 for vote turn itself
t159: Next vote cycle
+ 20 turns until vote (because it's the modern era)
+1 for civs entering atomic era
+1 for vote turn
t180: Next vote cycle begins
+10 turns until vote (because it's the atomic era)
t190 win

So, you can actually get a t200 win with t135 PP, even if you miss a vote.

And, there's even an edge condition when it takes less time. If you miss the 2-turn limit at the end of the vote cycle, and enter the atomic right before the vote, there will be 10 turns, meaning t180 win, even though you missed a vote cycle.

But, it's just so much better to win in one cycle.

t140: PP
+1 turns before first vote
+30 turns for vote
+1 turns for world entering industrial
+1 turns for world entering modern
+1 turns for world entering atomic
+1 turns for vote
t175: vote
+10 turns until leader vote
t185 victory
Click to expand...

Apparently the only error above is that it's 2 turns per era change so from PP to vote in atomic era you have 38 turns not 35.

My start is very strong and seems to indicate that atomic era between 180 and 190 is achievable with all GS (delaying Pisa/PT). Since it's already T122 and I'm not at PP (for 2 cycles), nor have found the other civs, the best way to do it would be to wait until T145-150 approximately to make WC (140 is too risky I think) and reach atomic around T182-187. I could wait to meet other civs or delay PP by a lot. Delaying PP is safer since its in my control. To make it safe I'll go for T150PP rather than 140-145. This should make reaching atomic at 187 the barrier.

T128 Hagia Sophia built enhanced Feed the world, Religious Texts.
T130 Meet everyone
T145 Notre Dame built I go to war with 7 Keshiks 3 Pikes should be largely enough to kill strength 25 cities, should be very quick and since everything is packed together up there...
T149 Machu Pichu built and Athens fall
T150 PP researched
T154 Scientific Theory
T155 Petra for the lolz
T156 Greece eliminated
T160 Carthage eliminated
T160 Met all CS
T166 Taj Mahal built (rushed)
T167 Radio discovered
T168 Freedom adopted (Food, GPP, Happiness for specialists)

I purposely delay Pisa and Porcelain to let natural GS spawn
Keshiks being OP everything will fall prior to the vote no problem

T172 Spain Eliminated
T176 Morrocco Eliminated Took around 20 turns to kill the 4 above me. It was such a joke.
T183 Reach Atomic era

Since I didn't even used Oxford (GS were enough) I guess there was possibility to do better, was at atomic 4 turn before the vote.

T188 First vote
T190 Statue of Liberty built (rushed) and allied with all CS (donated 8000gold)
T191 Forbidden Palace built
T198 World Leader vote 42/40

Spoiler :


881bpt without any labs built, what a strong map. Rarely I'm able to wonder whore that much.
Built 15 wonders: ToA, Colosus, Oracle, HG, HS, CI, MachuPichu, Notre Dame, PT, FP, Taj, SoL, MoH, Pisa, Petra
 
Around the turn 120 mark I thought Spain and I had something good going but she turned on me. Her denouncement made trade a little difficult but I was fortunate that neither the Inca nor Assyria hadn't met Dido before I conquered her so that decided who the survivors would be.

Assyria was kind enough to kill off Morocco taking their last city.

The Inca slowed me down a little by losing a Spanish city if gifted them so I took it and kept the oranges this time.

Once Morocco died we had a host vote. I'd prepared for that so won it comfortably.

Game Stats below:

Spoiler :
Game: Civ5 GOTM 91
Date submitted: 2014-08-15 04:36:58
Reference number: 31538
Your name: raidandtrade
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1905AD
Turns played: 326
Base score: 2175
Final score: 3346
Time played: 9:06:00

How did you use your UU and was it effective?

I've never played Genghis before so didn't appreciate the Keshik and didn't beeline it. I went pottery then a CB rush before finally getting to Chivalry.

I eventually built one or two just to try it out and realised my mistake... I had a bunch of them at the end and they we're my go to guys for clearing Carthage, Spain (despite the Great Wall) and Morocco.

Stupidly I didn't build any horsemen so captured with pikes and privateers. Lesson learned!

Khans we're also pretty cool - especially having so many of them. I almost wanted someone to try and GG grab some land from me so I could take it back...

How did you use spying to your advantage?

Rigging elections.

Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?

Having a natural choke point was good for taking out Greece otherwise this played more like Pangea.

How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?

I took a few more peace deals because the AI was throwing cities at me faster than I could raze them.

What did you learn from your defeat, should you be defeated?

N/A.
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 91
Date submitted: 2014-08-15 07:16:58
Reference number: 31540
Your name: beto_java
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1905AD
Turns played: 326
Base score: 1842
Final score: 2833
Time played: 3:57:00
Submitted save: final_Genghis Khan_0326 AD-1906.Civ5Save
Renamed file: beto_java_C509101.Civ5Save
 
Always forget the questions:

- How did you use your UU and was it effective?
Keshiks are the best unit in the game with camels so no question asked it was very effective

- How did you use spying to your advantage?
Didn't use it almost, I would have coup but the 2 AI left had no CS friend for 90% of the game

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
Ended up being a sort of Pangea so this is great for Keshiks

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
Made the conquest part easy, didn't have to start sooner
 
Being a "builder" player, I finished this game as early as possible without DoW to any civs
I reached Information Era at T240, then waiting 21 more turns for the first WL election :(

Game: Civ5 GOTM 91
Date submitted: 2014-08-15 16:33:49
Reference number: 31544
Your name: ambrox62
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1755AD
Turns played: 262
Base score: 1321
Final score: 2540
Time played: 10:49:00
Submitted save: Genghis Khan.Civ5Save
Renamed file: ambrox62_C509101.Civ5Save

Spoiler :


 

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