Thoughts about anti-war protests?

What are your thoughts on the anti-war protests?

I guess I did not properly explain that I was referring to the recent anti-war protests. I personally feel that protests, when it is already clear that the country has decided to go to war is pointless and yes, sometimes, counterproductive.

There were also major protests when the war had already begun, which I don't agree with. The troops should be taken into consideration.

In democracies, I feel that the ballot box can be just as powerful as marches in the street. Perhaps they can write to their legislators or request a meeting with their representative?

What are your thoughts on the issue?

Originally posted by John Wayne USA
The troops should be taken into consideration.

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That's the reason a lot of people were protesting. You think people protest for just their own good? They don't want their brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, cousins, and friends to go off and fight in a war.

Here's my question for you: The war is essentially over - why are you still strung up on protestors? This is just a repeat of everything that has been said during the war. Do a search on the OT for protestors and see how many threads you come up with. It's all been said and done.

Protesting is a right reserved by any member of a democracy. To deny that right is anti-democratic. After all, you are protesting against protesting.

Wanting the troops to not fight for questionable causes (by the way, what is the latest on the phantom WMD) is taking them into consideration.

Going back to your apples and oranges understanding of Thomas Jefferson, he went beyond mere protests in asserting that even that periodic revolution was justifiable and even necessary.

From letters to Madison, 1787-1789 (after the American Revolution for those of you keeping score at home) -

In response to Shays' Rebellion - “I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.... It is a medecine [sic] necessary for the sound health of government.”

In a subsequent letter - “I own I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive. The late rebellion in Massachusetts has given more alarm than I think it should have done. Calculate that one rebellion in 13 states in the course of 11 years, is but one for each state in a century and a half. No country should be so long without one.”

Finally, strike 3 on the Jeffersonian road to treasonous thoughts -“[O]ne generation is to another as one independent nation to another.... [N]o society can make a perpetual constitution, or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation.... The constitution and the laws of their predecessors [are] extinguished then in their natural course with those who gave them being.... Every constitution then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of 19 years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right.”

Based on these thoughts, I sure Jefferson would not be troubled by relatively peaceful protests in response to unprecedented diplomatic ineptness.

@John Wayne USA:

I was just reading the other thread you started on this subject that was closed. I just want to let you know that if rmsharpe is arguing against your right-wing position, it's probably pretty insane.

the only thing i have ever learned from south park: the pro-war crowd needs the protesters. you have to have the ability to go to war and look like you don't want to. so stop hating us. you neeeeed us. you neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed us!!!!

I'm a little bit country...

I'm a little bit rock and roll...

Because of the war Iraqis are free to protest! Democracy rules, does it not?

Well in a democracy, people are allowed to protest.

Hence why our nations are different from those who sling people into prison or worse for dissent.

Duke, you are just going to have to get used to the fact that not everyone shares your opinion.
It's the way of the world.
I thought the real reasons for this most recent war were suspect.
But I know my vote does more damage than some half-baked protest in the street.

PS
I always thought Clint Eastwood is far cooler!

Well theres a fair chance that many of the troops themselves didnt deep down agree with the war. Of course they dont get to act on their opinion, having takenthe queens shilling.

Hmm just been talking to a guy who lost a close friend in this war, he described the service.and the mans young daughter trying to read the memorial tribute.

Listening to the prsonal side, drives home its not a game, with numbers stats, etc, its real families, and with that in mind, if blair doesnt provide the proof we were promised (wmd) he has a case to answer

Jeez, that is three times I have agreed with ellie.
There is something far wrong here!


IMHO:
I found it illogical that the Iraqi high command never once used it's alleged WMD, even when the doom of the regime was in sight.

Rather odd...

In regards to Mr Blair and Mr Bush...
I suppose all that lovely oil and the lucrative Iraqi re-construiction contracts are worth the lives of our brave troopers and airmen.

The families can take pride in that...

Originally posted by CurtSibling
Jeez, that is three times I have agreed with ellie.
There is something far wrong here!


IMHO:
I found it illogical that the Iraqi high command never once used it's alleged WMD, even when the doom of the regime was in sight.

Rather odd...

In regards to Mr Blair and Mr Bush...
I suppose all that lovely oil and the lucrative Iraqi re-construiction contracts are worth the lives of our brave troopers and airmen.

The families can take pride in that...

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smile dont get used to it curt, im still a true blue tory with a healthy disdain for leftys and i still believe the iraqis have a better chance with hussein gone

Its just ive recently been talking to those who were actualy involved in it all, and are home. And it makes me angry to think blair may have lied as to the origonal reason he sent these people off to fight.

I've said what I have to say already on this thread:

Is Pacifism a Dangerous Western Disease?

Calgalus

Its not a question imho of pacifism, from a uk pov

If blair had said, we go to free iraqis and that is the reason for our war. Then thats one thing, certainly i think that in the long run iraq will benefit, i was very happy to see hussein gone. I think both US and UK troops DID go to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties.

But he said, we go to get rid of WMD, imho that case is still to be proved, i havent jusged either way yet, but i think given that it was the origonal reason we went to war (which i kind of supported). Its very important, and that if it DOES turn out the WMD dont exist, then he should be in a lot of trouble.

I wont comment on his further,

Originally posted by CurtSibling

The families can take pride in that...

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Well right or wrong curt, they died doing their duty, the wrongs and rights for why they were sent there are irrelevant, their families still have every reason to be proud of them imho

What do I think about anti-war protests?

I think they may intend well, but they don't quite understand international affairs, especially when it comes to trusting a despot like Saddam Hussein.

Concerning the far-left socialist groups that use these protests as recruiting grounds to sucker college kids into some sort of Che-lover, I don't like that.

Protests have many uses. I found them very useful for idnetifying fools by letting them rant. My 13 year old son was intteligent enough not to be fooled (unlike much of the audiance, apparently) by the firebrand on an Austin,Texas, corner, during an anti Iraq war protest, describing how bush was going to nuke Brazil into oblivion. This show a great drawback of mass or otherwise uncontrolled merbership public prostests. The wackos are going to turn up. They are going to get the spotlight and media attention, and they are going to color the entire event. This is going to lead to the impression of MANY obsevers that protesters are mostly useless wackos.
The media, by selective coverage, can also give a false color of a demostration in the other direction, focasing on one attactive compnent of a mass demostration that suits the reporters agenda. I, personally, have observed a local television reporter coniving with a group of demostraters to present a false image. I watched an anti vietnam war protest forming. the predominating majority of sentiment among its personel was racism.
"let the g***s kill each other. All the g***s in the world are not worth one of us. Let the n******s and the gr*****s fight the g***s. etc." The televison crew duly observed all this, then told them they were going to start filming soon coached them on how to present an idealistic moralistic pacifist line.
In short, whatever impression you get from observing part of a large demonstration, it is likely erroneus.

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
I, personally, have observed a local television reporter coniving with a group of demostraters to present a false image. I watched an anti vietnam war protest forming. the predominating majority of sentiment among its personel was racism.
"let the g***s kill each other. All the g***s in the world are not worth one of us. Let the n******s and the gr*****s fight the g***s. etc." The televison crew duly observed all this, then told them they were going to start filming soon coached them on how to present an idealistic moralistic pacifist line.
In short, whatever impression you get from observing part of a large demonstration, it is likely erroneus.

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To me this would indicate a need for additional media coverage to give voice to alternative POVs. There is simply no way to control how any given media outlet covers any event w/out undermining freedom of the press. Complain about it all you want about it though -- that's your right.

My only problem w/ non-violent protests was lampooned recently on SNL -- groups essentially unrelated to the reason for the protest use the opportunity to link their issues to the unifying issue, often w/ ridiculous results. But that can't be helped either, not w/out undermining freedom of expression.

We may not like what any given protest group has to say, but the right to protest is amongst our most sacred freedoms.

And lumping all protestors in w/ those who take it too far is faulty reasoning. Those who are violent or destroy property should be arrested. Those who are peaceful should be left alone. Protesting in the street or without a permit is against the law, but is a gray area to be dealt with as appropriately as possible, given the circumstances. Why is it a gray area when the law is black and white? Because freedom of speech is one area where we prefer to err on the side of caution -- in favor of free speech.

Originally posted by ellie
Listening to the prsonal side, drives home its not a game, with numbers stats, etc, its real families, and with that in mind, if blair doesnt provide the proof we were promised (wmd) he has a case to answer

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Originally posted by CurtSibling
I found it illogical that the Iraqi high command never once used it's alleged WMD, even when the doom of the regime was in sight.

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Regarding WMD:

Well, what to say about this. As the weapons were not found, all the sudden the "main reason" for this war is now out of the news coverage.

I wonder what the people that called the UN's weapons inspectors "useless", and that refused to accept that the pro-war people were demanding the proof of a negative, have to say now. I'd say they owe people apologies, but I really don't expect to hear them.

There are a lot of skeletons in this war's closet, that's for sure.

But al least Saddan is gone. If the coalision were to enter a questionable fight, at least they picked someone who really deserved getting kicked out.

Regards .

I don't have a problem with anti-war protests. I don't think war is a good thing - rather, sometimes it is a necessary thing.

Judge each war as it comes, TUSAG. Blindly supporting a cause - "my country right or wrong" - just leads to more problems.

Originally posted by John Wayne USA
The troops should be taken into consideration.

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that would be a good reason to protest against the war

because I care about the troops