Sticks and stones may get you shot by police

Kyriakos

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article said:
A homeless man who was shot and killed by officers at a busy intersection had thrown multiple rocks, hitting two officers, and had refused to put down other stones, authorities said Wednesday.

Officers used a stun gun on the man, but it had no effect, Pasco Police Chief Bob Metzger said at a news conference. Because of his "threatening" behavior, officers fired their guns, he said.

Metzger said he did not know whether a weapon was found.

The man killed was 35-year-old Antonio Zambrano-Montes, whose last address was a Pasco homeless shelter, said Franklin County Coroner Dan Blasdel.

Witnesses say the man was running away when he was shot. They told the Tri-City Herald the man had run about half a block when he was killed about 5 p.m. Tuesday near the Fiesta Foods store.

The shooting occurred after officers responded to a report of a man throwing rocks at cars at a busy intersection near a grocery store.

Dario Infante, 21, of Pasco, recorded video (Warning: graphic footage) from a vehicle about 50 feet away as the scene unfolded. In an email interview, he said he decided to start recording when he saw an officer trying to use a stun gun on the man. Infante said he saw the man throw a few rocks at police officers but he didn't see him hit any officers. Five "pops" are audible shortly after the video begins, and the man can be seen running away, across a street and down a sidewalk, pursued by three officers.

As the officers draw closer to the running man, he stops, turns around and faces them. Multiple "pops" are heard and the man falls to the ground.

"He didn't throw any rocks after he started running," Infante said.

Several dozen people gathered at Pasco City Hall on Wednesday afternoon to raise concerns about the shooting.

The ACLU of Washington also issued a statement, calling the incident "very disturbing."

"Fleeing from police and not following an officer's command should not be sufficient for a person to get shot," the group's executive director, Kathleen Taylor. Deadly force should be used only as a last resort, she said.

Witness Ben Patrick told the newspaper police fired at the man as his back was turned.

"I really thought they were just going walk up and tackle or tase him," he said. "But they opened fire. His back was turned."

Patrick's wife, Shannon, also said the man was running away. The shooting happened in front of her young children.

"He turned around to take off running and the cops just shot him," she said. "All he was trying to do was walk away."

Other witnesses heard officers give the man orders to stop and drop the rock. They said the man refused to listen.

Metzger has identified the three officers involved in the shooting. They were placed on leave for the investigation, a standard

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-washington-police-shooting-20150211-story.html]

-Do you think shooting this man armed with rocks was justified?

Some may be quick to say no, but in my view it actually makes police-sense:

1) Police get told man throws rocks at cars.
2) Police see man throwing stones at them.
3) Police fear that this means they will be morphed into cars.
4) Shoot to kill, boys!

You don't play with people's minds, man... :nope:
 
Eh. I don't see this as bad as other incidents. The cops tried using non lethal methods. Still didn't have to shoot him though. Its not like this guy was a serious threat. But that's how US is so iys not that suprrising that cops would use lethal force to solve the situation.
 
It's just the normal case of the police pushing a situation to a point where they can justify (justify as in they will probably not suffer any consequence) shooting someone.
 
In a lot of this country, if you're mentally ill and the cops show up, you're pretty much screwed.
 
So stun guns don't work you skip batons and move onto guns?
 
Well if they had rushed him with batons/billyclubs/nightsticks and given him a woodshed beatdown we might have another Rodney King situation on our hands :(. So there's that to consider, although I doubt they said to themselves "Hmmm if we get caught on tape beating this guy with batons that's gonna look bad so lets just gun him down instead":ar15:

But yeah, tear gas, pepper spray... Hell they could have picked up rocks themselves and started pelting the guy...
 
Another issue is that from the video of what happened (youtube is filled with versions of it) it is very clear that:

-the now dead man was running and had no rocks on him when executed, and his hands were raised to the sky in 'surrender' mode
-the police already shot at him, which caused him to run away. He clearly was afraid that if he did not he would die. Well, he later stopped running, and 1/10 of a second later he was dead.

Looks HORRIBLE.
 
Don't the London police work without handguns? Or at least patrol without them?

Maybe we should consider that in the US... Tazers, mace, tranquilzer darts, stun grenades, tear gas grenades, nightsticks, but no handguns/shotguns. If you really can't subdue a person with all that you can call in the "dogcatcher" Unit to "net' the person. If they Hulk-smash their way out of a net-snare then fine, call in the S.W.A.T. team and fire-away... but it will probably never come to that.
 
Don't the London police work without handguns? Or at least patrol without them?

Maybe we should consider that in the US... Tazers, mace, tranquilzer darts, stun grenades, tear gas grenades, nightsticks, but no handguns/shotguns. If you really can't subdue a person with all that you can call in the "dogcatcher" Unit to "net' the person. If they Hulk-smash their way out of a net-snare then fine, call in the S.W.A.T. team and fire-away... but it will probably never come to that.

Is that true, though?

Given back in 1998-2002 i saw regularly english policemen in central London with very visible and full-on automatic weapons, i doubt they no longer exist now. They probably are even more common post-2001.

And i don't mean just around the parliament. They were in any central zone area, including virtually 100% civilian dwelling and 'rich' parts of town.
 
I don't have it handy, but someone on this forum once posted a YouTube vid of police somewhere in the UK dealing with a guy who was waving a machete around. Somehow they managed to not shoot him.

I'm curious how many times this guy with the rocks got shot. When US cops shoot somebody, they often fire dozens of rounds. Back in '99, when Amadou Diallo made the mistake of reaching for his wallet, NYPD cops fired 40+ shots. When Timothy Russell and Malissa Williams were killed, Cleveland police fired 137 shots, more than were fired at Clyde Barrow and Bonnie Parker (aka "Bonnie & Clyde", the famous bank robbers of the 1930s).
 
If you're lazy. A lot of cops in the U.S. seem to be lazy. Have you seen how fat some of them are?

From what I've seen of various policing forces cop weight is usually associated with age. The older cops usually carry a helluva a lot more excess weight than younger ones and I can't really wrap my head around how is that acceptable if you are in a job where stamina and endurance are sometimes essential.

I also remember a case in Bosnia where the police sniper just kneecapped the armed veteran who went a bit off the reservation and the rapid response squad moved in with shields and disarmed him. Do Americans just really have that big of a hard-on for killing?
 
Is that true, though?
:dunno: I don't live in UK that's why I asked. I just read this article on why cops in Britain and New Zealand don't carry guns.

This is what Wikipedia has to say about Police use of Firearms in the United Kingdom
When Timothy Russell and Malissa Williams were killed, Cleveland police fired 137 shots, more than were fired at Clyde Barrow and Bonnie Parker (aka "Bonnie & Clyde", the famous bank robbers of the 1930s).
Well there are some significant differences between those two situations that easily explain that ... ... .. .
 
It seems people think throwing rocks isn't dangerous, but this man was a danger to society the fact he refuse to stop what he was doing put him in this situation.
It doesn't matter. We are long past trusting that law enforcement officers can make proper life and death, use-of-force decisions. So even when it's really justified, we cannot trust them. The fact that this man was homeless and had a non-Anglo surname raises more red flags than a Soviet propaganda film.
 
Yeah you really can't spare the rod on those fleeing homeless persons.
 
I'm just imagining a kid with a bag full of baseballs, which you'd know are just as "dangerous" as rocks if you've ever had the pleasure of being hit by one in the face (which I have).

"Put down the baseball, young man... or we will be forced to open fire!... Do NOT... I repeat do not throw another one of those... I said DON'T!... OK boys let em' have it!! :ar15: [pissed]
 
Well there are some significant differences between those two situations that easily explain that ... ... .. .
Yes, I think the guns carried by police today carry many more rounds, and fire and reload much faster. I don't know how long it takes someone with some basic training to empty the magazine of a police-issue pistol, but I imagine it's only a few seconds.
 
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