The Deity Challenge Line-up #22 - Brazil, King of the Jungle

Acken

Acken

Deity
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Sep 13, 2013
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Welcome to the Deity Challenge Line-up!



- The spreadsheet of all challenge finishers to date has been updated and is available here.
Rules:
Spoiler :

This was a fortnightly event, but the schedule has changed and new games will now be posted every 10 days.

- All the games in this series are set to Deity difficulty.
- User civilizations, maps, and opponents change with each challenge, but the game speed is always set to Standard and the starting era is always Ancient.
- We try for a variety of starts
- This isn't a competition so there will be no predefined victory conditions.
- If you complete 5 challenges, your name will be added to the 'Top Finishers' list.

* We welcome all comments and write-ups and invite you to post screenshots of key moments and the moment of victory (if you are successful), but please use the spoiler tag if you post a picture, make a comment about which civs are in the game, or about wonders, or locations of ancient ruins, etc.

* In short, if it’s information you can only know by playing the game, don’t spoil it for others by divulging this information in the open. Thank you for your co-operation


DCL Game #22
You: Brazil
Map Type:
Spoiler :
Pangea

Easy to Medium difficulty

Starting Location:
Spoiler :


Settings: Quick combat/movement (turn it back on if you would like)
Everything else is set to default.
Game Version - 1.0.3.276
Downloadable Content: – G&K, BNW, Conquest of the New World Deluxe, Genghis Khan's Mongolia, Harold Bluetooth's Denmark, Isabella’s Sapin and Pachacuti's Incan Empire, Kamehameha's Polynesian Empire, Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon, Sejong The Great's Korea, Wonders of the Ancient World. The map packs are intentionally excluded.

Schedule
Spoiler :

Game #1 20/06/14 The Zulu Pangaea
Game #2 04/07/14 America Continents
Game #3 18/07/14 Persia Continents
Game #4 01/08/14 Sweden Pangaea
Game #5 15/08/14 The Inca Pangaea
Game #6 29/08/14 Byzantium Continents
Game #7 12/09/14 Ethiopia Pangaea
Game #8 26/09/14 Mongolia Pangaea
Game #9 10/10/14 Rome Small Continents
Game #10 24/10/14 Polynesia Terra
Game #11 07/11/14 Morocco Pangaea
Game #12 21/11/14 The Maya Continents
Game #13 05/12/14 Indonesia Continents
Game #14 19/12/14 (Xmas Special) The Netherlands Small Continents
Game #15 19/12/14 (Xmas Special) Poland Pangaea
Game #16 02/01/15 China Pangaea
Game #17 16/01/15 Germany Pangaea
Game #18 23/01/15 OCC Babylon Continents
Game #19 02/02/15 Aztecs Pangea
Game #20 12/02/15 Spain Terra
Game #21 20/02/15 India Continents
Game #22 28/02/15 Brazil Pangea


I hope you all enjoy the map!

If you have any comments, questions or would like to submit a map for consideration for future challenges, please send an email to: deitychallenge@outlook.com
*Temporary kept the same mail address, may change in the future - Acken

Please note that submitted maps MUST have map packs disabled, so those who do not have them can enjoy the challenge. To do this, you MUST go into the DLC option from the Main Menu and untick the options ‘Scrambled Nations’, ‘Explorers Map Pack’ and ‘Scrambled Continents’. You will need to do this EVERY TIME you start a new game, or just simply delete the map packs. I suggest you disable these map DLCs on steam directly. Steam will uninstall them, just reactivate them when you need them. Thanks.
 

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I will abstain from posting a win time because of conflict of interest (my own map) :lol:
Nonetheless I hope you all enjoy this map! Suggested VC is culture of course.
Mountain and river, as well as luxes that give +food. Enjoy!
 
kb27787 said:
I will abstain from posting a win time because of conflict of interest (my own map) :lol:
Nonetheless I hope you all enjoy this map! Suggested VC is culture of course.
Mountain and river, as well as luxes that give +food. Enjoy!
Click to expand...

No DomV attempt, then? :(
 
Well, I'm not going to be nice here, this one has to be a bad joke. Whether or not you'll get boxed in from north AND south and then rush killed by turn 50 is a roll of the dice. At least with India previously I had SOME room to expand, this one is a forced OCC for 50 turns and then you get swarmed. The only way around it is to restart 20 times and hope the dice lands on a good number the 20th time.
 
stormtrooper412

Spoiler :

I have secured 3 good cities (guarding expansion spots with scout/archer). The capital by the hill, 1st expansion north taking ALL salt and the 2nd expansion east taking sugar.

Sure I am totally boxed now by Shoshone, Greeks and China. That is bad. And yes, you will have to bribe either Greece or China but so far it does not look that bad. Education will be T105 and my capital is already at 15 pop on T100.
 
'KB-style' CV T276

Spoiler :
'KB style', for reference, is 'no bribes', 'no bulbs' and 'no DoWs', after the first 20 turns when you're allowed to steal workers, as demonstrated to me by forum member KB27787. Most lurkers will know this moniker well.

I've played this strategy almost-faithfully a few times with the proviso that I don't have to make peace with someone who DoW'ed me, but this time I decided to go even with the idea that I would make peace if they wanted. Thankfully, I had no DoWs at all in this game.

I think the map is quite strong provided you get the expos out fast and not get boxed in as some have complained about. I think too many people build a load of crap before Settlers. My BO was Scout, Monument, Shrine, Settler, Settler, with 2 stolen workers.

Not as fast as my DCL #7 win time because I only had three cities, so the tech speed was a little lower. Also my religion and CS control was not so hot.

But this victory is enough for me to conclude that KB's strategy is solid, and you can bag any late-game wonders you want this way.


@KB himself

I'll do it on the Huns map
Click to expand...

Huns? Is there one planned? If Pangaea then it could be OP. The challenge I set you and F.A. was for him to complete an entirely peaceful CV, and for you to complete a DomV with a non-OP civ. Huns are borderline, but they have nothing in the tank if you don't get the job done before the Modern era. Maybe if Acken still picks the Celts Fractal map I passed to him that would work?
 
consentient said:
'KB-style' CV T276

Spoiler :
'KB style', for reference, is 'no bribes', 'no bulbs' and 'no DoWs', after the first 20 turns when you're allowed to steal workers, as demonstrated to me by forum member KB27787. Most lurkers will know this moniker well.

I've played this strategy almost-faithfully a few times with the proviso that I don't have to make peace with someone who DoW'ed me, but this time I decided to go even with the idea that I would make peace if they wanted. Thankfully, I had no DoWs at all in this game.

I think the map is quite strong provided you get the expos out fast and not get boxed in as some have complained about. I think too many people build a load of crap before Settlers. My BO was Scout, Monument, Shrine, Settler, Settler, with 2 stolen workers.

Not as fast as my DCL #7 win time because I only had three cities, so the tech speed was a little lower. Also my religion and CS control was not so hot.

But this victory is enough for me to conclude that KB's strategy is solid, and you can bag any late-game wonders you want this way.


@KB himself



Huns? Is there one planned? If Pangaea then it could be OP. The challenge I set you and F.A. was for him to complete an entirely peaceful CV, and for you to complete a DomV with a non-OP civ. Huns are borderline, but they have nothing in the tank if you don't get the job done before the Modern era. Maybe if Acken still picks the Celts Fractal map I passed to him that would work?
Click to expand...

Well now, as I said before, if Mongolia didn't count (and to be fair, the initial condition did not have anything to say about the civ, just that it has to be sub t220, which I managed; otherwise I'd just do X-COM rush style SV), then this Brazil map should not count for CV attempt as well, since Brazil is easily the Mongolia of CV :lol:
If Huns is not considered OP, then I'll gladly try it (Acken said the Huns are coming next); they don't have keshiks but at least they have something that helps take down cities early game (rams) and start with horses shown; might help me take down a few more civs earlier before I am forced to go into artillery slog.
 
stormtrooper412 said:
Well, I'm not going to be nice here, this one has to be a bad joke. Whether or not you'll get boxed in from north AND south and then rush killed by turn 50 is a roll of the dice. At least with India previously I had SOME room to expand, this one is a forced OCC for 50 turns and then you get swarmed. The only way around it is to restart 20 times and hope the dice lands on a good number the 20th time.
Click to expand...

Really? I always find the jungle a very good defense. (easy to block incoming armies/settlers)

Spoiler :
Here if you move west towards mountain you have some good pasture land with production; if you move north to salt (which some might not do had I not dropped the hint to move north in another thread), it becomes easy mode (probably you can try that on 2nd playthrough).

Dunno, when I played it I had no trouble blocking... just keep the 3 scouts close to home and build some other units to help block.
 
Sorry, but I draw the line here.
Spoiler :

Moved north to grab the salt and TRY to be competitive. Managed to swipe ToA which is the only reason why I had one functional and 3 horrible cities. By the time I tried to expand, Arabia dropped a city on the only one good spot I wanted, from half across the map for no real reason other than to troll me. So I was forced to pick semi decent locations with only a handful of good tiles.

I was backstab-attacked twice by Poca, gold was an issue, happiness was impossible to maintain because no AI had any spare luxes, and with Alex around, one couldn't really count on any CSs either, what little I managed to scout out and find before everyone came after me.

Then I saw a massive Chinese army which I'd have no chance of repelling, so I gave up. This is about as good example of a map I pretty much never get around.

I think I'll go and play another one of the older ones in the next few days
 
kb27787 said:
Really? I always find the jungle a very good defense. (easy to block incoming armies/settlers)

Spoiler :
Here if you move west towards mountain you have some good pasture land with production; if you move north to salt (which some might not do had I not dropped the hint to move north in another thread), it becomes easy mode (probably you can try that on 2nd playthrough).

Dunno, when I played it I had no trouble blocking... just keep the 3 scouts close to home and build some other units to help block.
Click to expand...

Haven't looked at spoilers but this is true in general. You can use your Warrior/Scouts/Archers to "guide" the AI into a either a loop or make them take so long to get somewhere that your Settler will get their first. And if you have to DoW the AI early to block their settlers from an amazing location then it's worth it to do so. They will usually make white peace within 10 turns and everything will be peachy. This is why I hate "pure" peace on Deity, it makes things extremely luck-based by having to hope the AI does certain things.
 
kb27787 said:
Well now, as I said before, if Mongolia didn't count (and to be fair, the initial condition did not have anything to say about the civ, just that it has to be sub t220, which I managed; otherwise I'd just do X-COM rush style SV), then this Brazil map should not count for CV attempt as well, since Brazil is easily the Mongolia of CV :lol:
If Huns is not considered OP, then I'll gladly try it (Acken said the Huns are coming next); they don't have keshiks but at least they have something that helps take down cities early game (rams) and start with horses shown; might help me take down a few more civs earlier before I am forced to go into artillery slog.
Click to expand...

I think it's fair to say that you did far better with the initial challenge than F.A. You indeed managed a sub T220 DomV, whereas F.A. got drawn into violence and totally distracted from the culture stuff.

The 'second round', as it were, has no turn time goal for you, it's just so that we can enjoy watching you going DomV again, but with a lesser civ. It's map dependent, of course. There was SOME difficult terrain on the Mongolia map. If the Huns map is Pangaea and mostly flat then its just about when, not if, for all accomplished players. I doubt this is the case, though. Then again, if the Huns don't have a great start, they move from top drawer to sock drawer. Kinda like Spain, really. My first DomV win on Deity with Attila, I killed my continent before T100 just before Venice (or was it Polynesia?) showed up and scouted the smouldering wreckage that was 4 civilisations.

I'm not saying it won't 'count' either way, and how you play on each DCL is of course your prerogative. But I'd personally really enjoy seeing you achieve a DomV with a mediocre civ, and F.A. make another stab at a peaceful CV. I do agree that Carnival is really good, probably better relatively than Mongolia's perks.
 
consentient said:
I think it's fair to say that you did far better with the initial challenge than F.A. You indeed managed a sub T220 DomV, whereas F.A. got drawn into violence and totally distracted from the culture stuff.

The 'second round', as it were, has no turn time goal for you, it's just so that we can enjoy watching you going DomV again, but with a lesser civ. It's map dependent, of course. There was SOME difficult terrain on the Mongolia map. If the Huns map is Pangaea and mostly flat then its just about when, not if, for all accomplished players. I doubt this is the case, though. Then again, if the Huns don't have a great start, they move from top drawer to sock drawer. Kinda like Spain, really. My first DomV win on Deity with Attila, I killed my continent before T100 just before Venice (or was it Polynesia?) showed up and scouted the smouldering wreckage that was 4 civilisations.

I'm not saying it won't 'count' either way, and how you play on each DCL is of course your prerogative. But I'd personally really enjoy seeing you achieve a DomV with a mediocre civ, and F.A. make another stab at a peaceful CV. I do agree that Carnival is really good, probably better relatively than Mongolia's perks.
Click to expand...

Very well... a rocket rush is in order... :devil:
 
Spoiler :
I admit that I looked at consentient's screen shot when deciding where to place my capital. However, the game was by no means easy. I stole a worker from China on turn 10, then made peace with her later. However, I had to keep blocking her settlers from going down to my old start location. Eventually I had to DOW her again and take a settler because blocking it was getting too difficult. She sent a few horses over to me and pillaged some tiles, but I fought her off and we made peace again.

At this point I had just dropped my second and third cities. Pocatello decided to come down from the north and try to snipe my capital. Rio got down to 30% health but I managed to beat back his assault and we made peace. After that, I didn't fight another war for the whole game.

I tried to make up the tech deficit by the Renaissance, but I failed and the only wonder I was able to get was the Sistine Chapel. After Maria sniped the Louvre from me 1 turn before completion I gave up on the culture attempt and just decided to focus on science. The Shoshone and Austria had gone Order and I knew I would have no tourism to speak of, so I went Order as well. Eventually Greece was Autocracy and all other civs on the map were Order. China was fighting Greece, Austria and the Shoshone at the same time, so she ended up getting wiped out. Greece later liberated her but at that point she had one 10 pop city and was 2 eras behind in tech, so she may as well have been out of the game.

I spammed brazilwood camps and simply turtled until the end of the game. Although I missed out on a religion, I was able to faith buy a Great Engineer for the Hubble Speace Telescope. The two extra great scientists allowed my tech to keep up with my production. On the second to last turn of the game I got the Order tenet for free GS and GE. I didn't need the GS but the GE sped up my part by two turns. Overall I thought this map was slightly more difficult than the Aztec map due to the lack of space and little lux diversity.
 

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consentient said:
I think it's fair to say that you did far better with the initial challenge than F.A. You indeed managed a sub T220 DomV, whereas F.A. got drawn into violence and totally distracted from the culture stuff.

The 'second round', as it were, has no turn time goal for you, it's just so that we can enjoy watching you going DomV again, but with a lesser civ. It's map dependent, of course. There was SOME difficult terrain on the Mongolia map. If the Huns map is Pangaea and mostly flat then its just about when, not if, for all accomplished players. I doubt this is the case, though. Then again, if the Huns don't have a great start, they move from top drawer to sock drawer. Kinda like Spain, really. My first DomV win on Deity with Attila, I killed my continent before T100 just before Venice (or was it Polynesia?) showed up and scouted the smouldering wreckage that was 4 civilisations.

I'm not saying it won't 'count' either way, and how you play on each DCL is of course your prerogative. But I'd personally really enjoy seeing you achieve a DomV with a mediocre civ, and F.A. make another stab at a peaceful CV. I do agree that Carnival is really good, probably better relatively than Mongolia's perks.
Click to expand...

I already conceded to this challenge. However, I could give one more peaceful CV a try but I really do not enjoy a Total Peace Style of game and I admit that I was wrong about how easy it is to achieve for me. I reacted poorly to a statement that kb27787 made that I did not agree with and I took it too far but I have admitted my wrong doing and that I was out of line and have apologized to kb27787 multiple times and the community as a whole as well :) !! Of course it does not hurt to say that I was wrong and apologize once again for my poor behavior. Although it may take some time for me to complete any recent challenges since I am a bit full of Civ right now from eating too much lately. Recently I tried to finish out the ICL # 18 and AWC # 3 games and after about 10-20 turns I lost interest and saved them for a later date. The good news is that since I am tired of playing... I now have the time to update Player Pages and Leaderboards and am enjoying that endeavor more so instead of playing for the last few days. I also made a new way of tracking W/L and Completed Victories/Replayed Games.
 
consentient said:
I had no DoWs at all in this game.
Click to expand...
Luck, or you gave them 1 GPT "presents" to be friends? The guy on the South always eliminates Brazil in my games (when they both on the map). Also, the other two expansionists... *shivers*
 
Just started this, recorded one episode in case I picked this up after finishing my Denmark LP(Iyes 'm actually uploading an episode soon lol) but I couldn't help look at spoilers so I dunno if it's really fair to do an LP when I have some knowledge about it.Then again my understanding is there's nothing wrong with replaying maps in this series so I might anyway.

@ consentient I have to ask

Spoiler :
How in the world did your capital end up at the Salt? Was this a second attempt or insane luck? :Because it's like 8 tiles away from the starting location with jungle/forest blocking the line of sight on it :crazyeye:
 
Spoiler :
I also founded at salt during my play test. The thing is, the start sucks with 0 production + all jungle, so I moved my warrior north and my settler west toward the mountain at least, the warrior quickly found some wheat/sheep/river which looked more interesting than the all jungle my settler was in. So I went that way with my settler too and the next turn the warrior revealed some salts.
Took 8 turns to settle overall because of the detour my settler did. I guess if you go straight north you can win 3-4 turns.

Next turns I found a very exploitable salt tile from the chinese, from which I farmed 5 workers.

The only real sad part is that it probably cost me a pantheon, I expanded very quickly skipping the Shrine and somebody enhanced around turn 50. But really I wouldn't have got that much out of it.

Here is my turn 98 education screenshot I took. I recorded it and commented I'll continue this map at a later time though.

Spoiler :

 
adcarrymaokai said:
Luck, or you gave them 1 GPT "presents" to be friends? The guy on the South always eliminates Brazil in my games (when they both on the map). Also, the other two expansionists... *shivers*
Click to expand...

I gave no presents. Just kept a half-respectable military, traded with them, made no denouncements, and shared a LOT of intrigue. Actually, when I commit to peace as per the KB style, I generally find I get a lot less plots hatched against me. I had DoWs in the Zulu game, but from Dido who was halfway across the map. I don't think it's luck, it's a combination of being unthreatening and keeping a decent military for dissuasion.

Light Cleric said:
How in the world did your capital end up at the Salt?
Click to expand...

Because the map-maker, KB27787, has also extolled the virtues of wandering with the settler. When I play his style, I tend to have a look around as well. Part of his strategy is using 5-15 turns to find the best dirt.

In fairness, the direction I walked in wasn't an accident, because he also dropped a hint on another thread that
Spoiler :
north
would be the way to go. So if I had any 'advantage' it was one that saved me a few turns. It's not like I wouldn't have found the salt PDQ :)
 
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