Dangerous Hunting - Epic animal fights!

Dangerous Animals is modmod for Caveman2Cosmos that tweaks animals and hunters and that has a significant effect on the early game (mostly during the Prehistorical era).


What's the idea?

In core C2C, hunter units are the masters of the wild. Save a few, animals aren't really dangerous units and any hunter unit (even the Chaser) can beat and try to capture most of them without taking any real risk.

With this modmod, this is no longer true: many animals will now be a real threat, even for hunters. You'll have to use scouting and tactics to avoid or try to defeat predators while hunting for easier preys. And you'll treat bears with fear and respect

The early game will in consequence play quite differently. Venturing outside your starting city limits will be dangerous. Exploring far from you starting city mostly out of the question. Animals will be the real danger, not distant civs that couldn't even send a military unit to your doors even if they wanted to. On the other hand, hunting is also more rewarding and can provide a decent boost to your early growth if done properly.

This mod is intended for players which are already experienced with hunting in core C2C, preferably also with the Size Matters and Fight or Flight options. You'll need good tactics and tricks to survive and beat animals, so get a knack for hunting in the core game first so you don't get frustrated!


Any advice to get started?

Fundamentally it's not that different from the core game - except that you'll have to be more careful and ready to accept regularly losing units to animals. Here's a list of tips to help you get your marks.

• Don't even try to engage animals with non-hunting units. Chasers, trackers and hunters have a low strength but have a huge bonus against animals, making them better than most units until much later in the game. That said, clubmen are still useful to fight barbarians. In other words, before you get Persistence Hunting (for Chaser), you're probably better to stay inside your city border.
• Scout the area! The early explorer units (Wanderer, Scout, Explorer) now see further. Put one or two on hills near your city to have a clear picture of the animals nearby and avoid inadvertantly moving your hunters near a dangerous animal.
• Stay near the border of your territory. Animals won't enter civ territories, so it's a good idea to stay close to the border to let your units heal inside if needed. Also, if you're going too far you'll have trouble bringing back to your city the animals you might have captured.
• Don't engage dangerous animals early on! The chance of survival of even a Chaser against bears, felines and other predators is very low. Try to avoid them and focus on less threatening animals first, at least until you get some Trackers (and even then you'll probably lose some if you try to attack them).
• Don't be too afraid to attack superior units with your hunting units.
  Hunting units are designed to be good at hit'n run tactics - first strikes and good withdrawal when they are damaged. Get several hunting units attacking in succession to weaken then kill or capture strong animals (but not too strong otherwise you'll get your hunter all killed). Pay attention to your retreat chance in the combat statistics rather than to the chance to kill the unit (which will be probably close to 0 for a full-health non harmless animal).
• You'll lose units when fighting animals. That's normal. Sometimes your unit was not able to withdraw. Sometimes a predator that you did not see crossed two tiles and attacked you. Sometimes you just don't have luck. Don't be too disappointed if you regularly lose units, even experienced ones, that's not necessarily a sign of bad play. The costs of Chasers, Trackers and Hunters have been halved to take that into account and you'll regularly earn some when fighting animals that will offset some of the cost of training new units.
• Get help from the hunter buildings. Hunting instructions is the first you'll probably want to build: it'll give enough initial xp to grant a promo to your new hunter units! When you capture a big animal such as a Glyptodon or a Pig, make it build a Master Hunter to get some free starting experience for your hunter units. And if you manage to capture a strong animal (bear, lion, elephant, etc.), it will be able to build another building, the Trophy Hunter that gives even more starting experience. Getting either is also very important since hunting units after Chaser require one.
• Waiting for the animals can be very efficient. A unit in a hill with a forest get a +75% bonus. If you fortify it and give it "defense promotions" such as Escape Plans (for a better withdrawal chance) or Trap Hunting (for a bonus against animals), your unit will have a much higher chance of survival if you can lure an animal to attack it.

What's the list of things this modmod changes?

New animals

Every animal has been tweaked to give it a specific "flavor", mostly depending on the category they belong to (though there are some variations inside each category - a panda bear is much less dangerous than a brown bear). Even some animals such as horses or boars have been upped a bit and might offer some resistance.
Be careful of camouflaged animals! Even though your hunters and scouts will be able to detect them, they might surprise a regular unit venturing outside your territory thinking it's safe.

Low threat
Birds are harmless animals that are hard to hit and that will flee as soon as possible (and are good at doing so). OTOH they have very low HP so you only need a few hits (maybe even one) to get them.
Fleeing herbivorous are mostly harmless animals like deers, giraffes, etc. that will try to flee as soon as possible when engaged in combat and are good at doing so - maybe not as much as birds, but they aren't as weak to compensate.
Flightless birds are quite similar to fleeing herbivorous in their behavior. A few ones (like ostriches) might try to pursue a fleeing attacker.
Insects have first strikes and good evasion/pursuit capacities. However they have a very low HP (meaning one or two hits should be enough to kill them), and as they only include tarentulas which have a low strength (they aren't dangerous to humans), they can be put in this "mostly harmless" category.
Monkeys are rather weak, dodge well and flee fast, but not before trying to land a few first strikes if they are attacked.
Small animals include a wide range of mostly harmless animals like lizards, treesloths, iguanas... that won't do much but try to flee if attacked. Skunks and aardvarks might try to repel you instead though.
Small but not defenseless include small animals like foxes or ratels that aren't really threatful but might land a few hits during a fight before they flee.
Tapirs aren't too much of a threat and will happily flee; they stand out from other animals by their thick skin and lack of weak points (represented by armor in-game) and their keen senses that allow them to detect camouflaged units.
As you can expect, Turtles are harmless animals unable to flee whose survival relies on the boredom of its attacker trying to pierce its shell.

Medium threat
Birds of prey are, like birds, good at fleeing if necessary, but have a bit more HP and strength than ordinary birds. They aren't too dangerous but can still be a threat to wounded units. They can also see camouflaged units (rogues beware!) and have a first strike.
Boars have a moderate strength, but are very vindicative. They will rush their enemies (lowering their fortification defenses bonus), try to kill every unit on the same tile when attacking and pursue fleeing defenders. Don't get too cocky with them!
Kangaroos don't have a very high strength (well, except the Procoptodon), but can still be challenging and are good at fleeing or pursuing.
Large hebivorous like horses or bulls will usually try to flee if attacked (with a good chance of doing so), but if they fight, they remain challenging opponents, so don't engage them too easily thinking they are easy prey.
Apes are mostly similar to Monkeys, except the Gorilla which stands out as stronger and less likely (and able) to flee.
Snakes (except the placid ballpython) have a rather low strength, low HP and will flee easily when attacked. However, they have a potentially very dangerous bite (simulated in game terms by several possible first strikes) and are thus more of a threat than their strength would lead to believe.

High threat
Bears are strong animals that will rarely withdraw and will pursue your chaser. Avoid them early on, they're really dangerous! (well, except the panda)
Crocodiles are dangerous creatures with rather high strength that can move fast (yes they can!) - they have a chance to first strike and will try to pursue fleeing units.
Elephants are among the most fearsome animals, with a very high strength and a bit of armor. Fortifying is nearly useless against elephants, which will also (like boars) engage every unit on the tiles they attack.
Felines are another class of very dangerous animals with high strength that are very fast - good at dodging, at pursuing units or at fleeing if necessary. And they can detect camouflaged units.
Hippos are kind of similar to boars and elephants in behavior but in-between in terms of raw strength.
Think of Rhinos as hippos with strong armors and you'll be mostly accurate.
Wolves are quite similar to felines, though they lack their stalking abilities (no first strike) and are less likely to flee. They can also detect camouflaged units.

Here's the full reference table:


New hunters

Units in the hunter line have been modified. The first three (chaser, tracker, hunter) have 2 strength (1.33 with SizeMatters) and their bonus against animals is now respectively 200%, 300% and 400%. This makes them better than most units against animals, but not that much, and bad against about anything else.

On the other hand, they have very useful abilities:
- They get 2 first strikes (and can gain more through promotions)
- They will try to withdraw as soon as they are hit with a base 40% chance (some animals might reduce that)
- They are good at pursuing (with significant increase as you progress in the game)
- They are camouflaged (beware, many animals such as felines, bears and wolves can still detect camouflage)

As you'll regularly lose some, their base cost has been halved.

Great Hunter units have a bit more strength than their base counterpart and have a better withdrawal chance, making them much more likely to survive animal encounters. Further hunter units have also been changed along those lines (I won't go into details since they are usually much less relevant to the game).

Wanderers, Scouts and Explorer now start with Hunter Sight 1 and can learn Hunter Sight 2 to further increase their scouting range. They can also detect camouflage (though they aren't camouflaged).

Trackers now require Games technology instead of Tracking (making them a bit longer to get).

The former Master Hunter building has been "split" in two: Master Hunter and Trophy Hunter. The Master Hunter works about the same as before: it can be built by "big" captured animals (any that gives at least 10 when killed) and have the same properties except that it only gives 1 xp to new hunters. The Trophy Hunter can be built by capturing a dangerous animals (mostly those in the "High threat" category above) and gives 3xp to new hunters. Building Trackers and Hunters requires either the Master Hunter or the Trophy Hunter.


Better hunting results

The and "rewards" for killing animals have been completely changed.

The main lines are:
- and yields have been upped significantly. Killing a pidgeon will give only 1-3 and maybe 1-2 , but a bear might provide up to 20 and 10.
- Some animals will also provide (which translates into science and gold depending on your taxation level) - parrots feathers, bear or jaguar fur, boar tusks...)
- Killing animals with high strength also provide some - tales of how the hunters defeated that nasty tiger...

The available actions with captured animals (apart from building myth/stories/...) have also been tweaked along those lines:
- Butchering (in a city) is available to every captured animal and provides about 50% more resources than a kill.
- Animal Combat is available to non-wimpy captured animals. It will provide less resources than a kill, but more gold and culture.
- Record Tale is available to every captured animal and provide additional and , but don't provide any food or production.
- Animal Study is available to every captured animal and will provide less resources than a kill, but much more .


How do I install it?

Just extract the attached files into Modules/My_Mods/DangerousAnimals/

This modmod has been balanced with Size Matters and Fight or Flight both activated. I advise to use the modmod with those options activated otherwise it won't work very well. Using "Size Matters uncut" is not advised, some animals will be more powerful than intended.

It probably won't work well in an existing game (since the new strength/abilities will not be applied to existing animals and units) so I advise starting a new game.


Your feedback is always welcome!


Version history:
1.00 (25/05)
- Feature-complete version
1.01 (28/05)
- Master Tracker and Trophy Hunter now require Games
- Wanderer no longer has Hunting Sight 1
- Improved withdrawal capabilities of Scout and Explorer
1.02 (02/06)
- Toned down a bit the Master Hunter units and late hunter units
- Lowered capture chance from Master Hunter units and from a few promotions
1.03 (07/06)
- Reworked a bit the combat classes from Size Matters. Some animals became a (little) bit stronger in the process. Playing without Size Matters shouldn't be so unbalanced now, though it's still unadvised (and unsupported).
- Removed camouflaging from the animals that had it (led to some issues with spawning and moving into cultural borders)
- Tweaked a few other animal properties
- Nerfed subdued animals, they now all have 1 move and at most half the corresponding animal's strength
- Adjusted the Kill Outcomes so that the capture bonuses apply as intended
1.04 (10/06)
- Doubled the base strength of every hunter unit. Animals strength has also been adjusted to about 170% of what it was in 1.03. Regular units will have a much harder time against animals now while hunters shouldn't be too affected.
- Explorer units no longer have a Hunter combat class. Hope it will help with the AI.
- Hunting Instruction & Master Hunter tradition now only give Hunter 1 to hunter units
- Squashed a number of small bugs and a few other very minor adjustments

View attachment DangerousAnimals 1.04.7z

Interesting. I never bother hunting at the moment

MacCoise said:

Interesting. I never bother hunting at the moment

Click to expand...

Then you are missing the point of the early prehistoric era, but it is still a valid game play choice.

Time for even more dangerous hunting!

Now every animal has been tweaked to give it a specific "flavor", mostly depending on the category they belong to (though there are also differences inside a category - a sabertooth tiger has much more strength than a lynx, a thylacine is much more likely to withdraw than a wolf, etc.). I also slightly tweaked the hunters to improve a bit their withdrawal capacity so that they last longer (don't rejoice, you will still lose some regularly).

Overall, the hunting game plays quite differently now. You'll probably want to keep your hunting field area in the close vicinity of your city for quite some time so you can easily retreat to safety when dangerous animals are coming too close. On the other side, you can spend several turns hunting a specific animal, slowly damaging it until you land the final strike and earn a sizeable amount of resources for your efforts, so it's far from boring!


The categories and their specificities are the following:

(obsolete)
Low-threat

Birds are harmless animals that are hard to hit and that will flee as soon as possible (and are good at doing so). OTOH they have very low HP so you only need a few hits (maybe even one) to get them.

Fleeing herbivorous are mostly harmless animals like deers, giraffes, etc. that will try to flee as soon as possible when engaged in combat and are good at doing so - maybe not as much as birds, but they aren't as weak to compensate.

Flightless birds are quite similar to fleeing herbivorous in their behavior. A few ones (like ostriches) might try to pursue a fleeing attacker.

Insects have first strikes and good evasion/pursuit capacities. However they have a very low HP (meaning one or two hits should be enough to kill them), and as they only include tarentulas which have a low strength (they aren't dangerous to humans), they can be put in this "mostly harmless" category.

Monkeys are rather weak, dodge well and flee fast, but not before trying to land a few first strikes if they are attacked.

Small animals include a wide range of mostly harmless animals like lizards, treesloths, iguanas... that won't do much but try to flee if attacked. Skunks and aardvarks might try to repel you instead though.

Small but not defenseless include small animals like foxes or ratels that aren't really threatful but might land a few hits during a fight before they can flee.

Tapirs aren't too much of a threat and will happily flee; they stand out from other animals by their thick skin and lack of weak points (represented by armor in-game) and their keen senses that allow them to detect camouflaged units.

As you can expect, Turtles are harmless animals unable to flee whose survival relies on the boredom of it attacker trying to pierce its shell.



Medium threat

Birds of prey are, like birds, good at fleeing if necessary, but have a bit more HP and strength than ordinary birds. They aren't too dangerous but can still be a threat to wounded units. They can also see camouflaged units (rogues beware!) and have a first strike.

Boars have a moderate strength, but are very vindicative. They will rush their enemies (lowering their fortification defenses bonus), try to kill every unit on the same tile when attacking and pursue fleeing defenders. Don't get too cocky with them!

Kangaroos don't have a very high strength (well, except the Procoptodon), but can still be challenging and are good at fleeing or pursuing.

Large hebivorous like horses or bulls will usually try to flee if attacked (with a good chance of doing so), but if they fight, they remain challenging opponents, so don't engage them too easily thinking they are easy prey.

Apes are mostly similar to Monkeys, except the Gorilla which stands out as stronger and less likely (and able) to flee.

Snakes (except the placid ballpython) have a rather low strength, low HP and will flee easily when attacked. However, they have a potentially very dangerous bite (simulated in game terms by several possible first strikes) and are thus are more of a threat than their strength would lead to believe.




High threat

Bears are strong animals that will rarely withdraw and will pursue your chaser. Avoid them early on, they're really dangerous! (well, except the panda)

Crocodiles are dangerous creatures with rather high strength that can move fast (yes they can!) - they have a chance to first strike and will try to pursue fleeing units.

Elephants are among the most fearsome animals, with a very high strength and a bit of armor. Fortifying is nearly useless against elephants, which will also (like boars) engage every unit on the tiles they attack.

Felines are another class of very dangerous animals with high strength that are very fast - good at dodging, at pursuing units or at fleeing if necessary. And they can detect camouflaged units.

Hippos are kind of similar to boars and elephants in behavior but in-between in terms of raw strength.

Think of Rhinos as hippos with strong armors and you'll be mostly accurate.

Wolves are quite similar to felines, though they lack their stalking abilities (no first strike) and are less likely to flee. They can also detect camouflaged units.


Here's the full table for reference :

Category | Strength | SeeInvisible | First strikes | Pursuit | Withdrawal | Early Withdrawal | Armor | Overrun | Repel | Early Repel | Dodge Modifier | Stampede | MaxHP
Apes | Avg | | Possible | Low | Low | Low | | | | | | |
Bears | High | | | Avg | Low | | Low | | | | | |
Birds | Low | | | | High | High | | | | | High | | Low
Birds of prey | Avg | Yes | Yes | Avg | High | Low | | | | | Avg | | Low
Boars | Avg | | | High | Low | | | Low | | | | Yes |
Crocodiles | High | | Possible | Avg | Low | | Avg | | | | | |
Elephants | High | | | Avg | Low | | Avg | High | | | | Yes |
Felines | High | Yes | Yes | High | Avg | | | | | | Low | |
Fleeing herbivorous | Low | | | | Avg | High | | | | | | |
Flightless birds | Low | | | | Avg | High | | | | | | |
Hippos | High | | | Avg | Low | | Avg | Avg | | | | Yes |
Insects | Avg | | Yes | Low | Avg | Avg | | | Low | Low | Low | | Low
Kangaroos | Avg | | | Avg | Avg | Avg | | | | | Low | |
Large hebivorous | Avg | | | Avg | Low | Low | Low | Low | | | | |
Monkeys | Avg | | Possible | High | High | Avg | | | | | Low | |
Rhinos | High | | | High | Low | | High | High | | | | Yes |
Small animals | Low | | | | Avg | High | | | | | Low | |
Small not defenseless | Avg | | Possible | Low | Avg | High | | | | | Low | |
Snakes | Avg | | Yes | Avg | Avg | Avg | | | | | Avg | | Low
Tapirs | Avg | Yes | | | Avg | Avg | Avg | | | | | |
Turtles | Low | | | | | | High | | Low | High | | |
Wolves | High | Yes | | High | Avg | | | | | | | |

What I'm considering for the future:
- Camouflaging hunters? This would make sense and probably offer an interesting way to play now that some animals can detect you, but it'd need some testing first.
- Killing/butchering animals should probably be tweaked on an individual basis instead of just multiplying the vanilla amount by 5 to take in account the individual animal strategies.
- I'd like to make the Master Hunter building a reward only buildable by a subdued "dangerous" animal - a (possible) reward for taking risks and finally taking down that nasty bear or lion near your city!
- A more long-term goal would be to have hunters that are good at different things (first strike, decisive strike, capture...), either different units or through promotions with a building that give bonus initial xp to hunters.
- It'd be nice to have different animal AIs (at least differenciate between agressive and non-agressive animals), though I'm not sure how/where to look to do that.

View attachment DangerousHunting v2.7z

A hunter who goes after a dangerous animal is an idiot. The job of a hunter is to provide food.

Dancing Hoskuld said:

A hunter who goes after a dangerous animal is an idiot. The job of a hunter is to provide food.

Click to expand...

Depends if said dangerous animal (or more probably animals) is staying at the limit of your city and preventing the hunters from actually hunting for food (and more broadly preventing any unit from leaving the limits of the city)




I've done several playtests of the prehistorical era with Dangerous Hunting (tweaking little things each time), it's really enjoyable and I encourage you to try it! (though there might be a small learning curve at first if you're used to easy animals)

I can't. I don't play with Size Matters or Flight or Fight on.

Dancing Hoskuld said:

I can't. I don't play with Size Matters or Flight or Fight on.

Click to expand...

Ah, too bad. You don't like those options?

They make combat overly complex IMO.

Is there any way to get wild animals to move into your borders?. Just seems illogical that they can not.

I believe RI managed to do that with Barbarians.

Dancing Hoskuld said:

They make combat overly complex IMO.

Click to expand...

A BIG +1 to this!

@Rwn, if eventually you can make this work without those options I'd give it a go. I might try it as is anyway without Size Matters or Flight or Fight on. Just to see what it breaks in the "base" mod and to check out it's Fun factor.

JosEPh

Harrier said:

Is there any way to get wild animals to move into your borders?. Just seems illogical that they can not.

I believe RI managed to do that with Barbarians.

Click to expand...

I included tags for this, including a tag for the unit definition and a tag that can add a cause for an animal to be able to ignore borders when a promo is obtained (I was thinking about Tigers that get a taste for man flesh - maneaters) so that animals could 'earn' the ability. It has never gone into developmental application sadly.

This WHOLE concept sounds like everything I had in mind for hunting taken to the next level that I could never personally take it to. I always wanted the animal AIs to behave along similar guidelines as well and for some animals to be able to choose to overlap 'enemy' units (mostly out of apathy) without having to attack but still be attackable, which was something I was on the way with some recent movement rule changes. Some birds and beasts would just wander right into the same territory your unit is in, unconcerned entirely. Some would seek to enter the city and I always wanted to see the pests thing adjusted to this being how pests were added to a city (they would sacrifice themselves to become the pest building in any city they could reach.)

Anyhow, I'd love to try this sometime soon.

Another thing... I'd LOVE to see this as an actual game option rather than just a modmod. The replacement mechanism could be used to achieve that. And selecting the option could be made to enforce fight or flight as non-optional. Just sayin'. This is the kind of stuff I was trying to enable with my work. Thanks for bringing this vision to life guys!

Sounds really good overall, but please don't do this to tarantulas. In the mod they represent venomous (and possibly including disease-carrying) insects in general. I guess they're just the only one that art has been found for. Plus just because they may not kill people these days, doesn't mean they didn't in earlier eras.

Harrier said:

Is there any way to get wild animals to move into your borders?. Just seems illogical that they can not.

I believe RI managed to do that with Barbarians.

Click to expand...

As Thunderbrd said, there's a tag for that that I considered adding for some animals, but ultimately didn't for a few reasons:
- It's not that unreasonable that even wild animals would be hesitant to get near a human settlement even if they'd be otherwise ready to chase a few ones (granted, that's not totally true).
- More importantly, it's nice from a gameplay perspective to have a small territory safe from the many animals that appear around rather than cramping everyone in your city (remember that it's not safe from neanderthalians though!)
- I haven't tested it, but it's possible that animals would then be able to attack cities - which would either be a too easy way to defeat them with the city bonus defense etc. or a too high threat even for your tribal guardian (some animals have 7 strength or more!)

JosEPh_II said:

A BIG +1 to this!

@Rwn, if eventually you can make this work without those options I'd give it a go. I might try it as is anyway without Size Matters or Flight or Fight on. Just to see what it breaks in the "base" mod and to check out it's Fun factor.

Click to expand...

Technically there's nothing preventing you from trying it without the options. However, without SizeMatters some animals will be much more powerful than intended and without Fight or Flight both the animals and your hunter will miss the crucial tactic elements that makes hunting fun (hit'n run tactics with chasers, birds flying away when you try to capture them, etc.).

I don't really understand the issue those options, sure they add many underlying mechanics, but on the surface you just have to (very occasionally) manage split&merge with SizeMaters, while Fight or Flight mainly makes units flee occasionally... My only gripe with them is the number of promotions it adds which clutter a bit the available promo buttons. Anyway, I'd say there are much more complex mechanics elsewhere in C2C

Thunderbrd said:

This is the kind of stuff I was trying to enable with my work. Thanks for bringing this vision to life guys!

Click to expand...

To be honest most of the stuff in v2 comes from stumbling on your posts describing the C2C combat mechanisms and thinking that all those tags would be perfect for animals and being surprised that they weren't already in Looks like you've put an incredible amount of work in that, it'd be a shame not to use it!

Yudishtira said:

Sounds really good overall, but please don't do this to tarantulas. In the mod they represent venomous (and possibly including disease-carrying) insects in general. I guess they're just the only one that art has been found for. Plus just because they may not kill people these days, doesn't mean they didn't in earlier eras.

Click to expand...

Well I'm certainly no expert in spiders, I had to overcome my arachnophobia to read a bit of the wikipedia entry to see how dangerous they were (I'm already a bit uncomfortable just with the button icon in C2C so believe me going through those wiki pictures was horrible :shudder: ) to find that they were harmless to humans apart from allergies...

I don't really mind changing that (and making potential other insects like wasps more threatening), but are they really supposed to represent other insects too? They don't just have a spider icon, they are named tarentulas, give tarentula myth, etc.

By the way, is there currently a way to have "random" free promotions ? I see there's something like that for astrological signs but I don't know how it works.

What I have in mind would be to randomly give increased/decreased groupe volume promotions to animals so that when a wolf is spawned for example, it might be in reality a lone wolf (toned down version of the default wolf) or a huge pack of wolves.

We already spawn wolf packs, it is just that they don't stay together. Same with bison herds. In both cases we spawn three of the units on the same plot.

Technically there's nothing preventing you from trying it without the options. However, without SizeMatters some animals will be much more powerful than intended and without Fight or Flight both the animals and your hunter will miss the crucial tactic elements that makes hunting fun (hit'n run tactics with chasers, birds flying away when you try to capture them, etc.).

Click to expand...

We already have something like this in the main mod without having to use More Options. You've only amplified it more. And having to spend another turn "chasing down a wounded animal" when other threats are around is not my idea of fun. Just more work with more turns spent that could be used elsewhere. The risk vs reward doesn't appeal to me.

I don't really understand the issue those options, sure they add many underlying mechanics, but on the surface you just have to (very occasionally) manage split&merge with SizeMaters, while Fight or Flight mainly makes units flee occasionally... My only gripe with them is the number of promotions it adds which clutter a bit the available promo buttons. Anyway, I'd say there are much more complex mechanics elsewhere in C2C

Click to expand...

As I told T-brd, I do Not want to play Squad Leader with my units. Has absolutely No appeal to me. As for "much more complex mechanics elsewhere" I doubt that Very Very much. And you've hit another point that I will agree on though, "My only gripe with them is the number of promotions it adds...". Promotions are way overdone, with way too much overlap. A good 50% could be done away with and you would still have a myriad of choices. And less load on the mods calculations, EoT times, and size. That's 3 strikes for me right there.

But hey! this is a modmod and I'm just answering and posing questions and voicing my opinion. It's your Work and You should do what you Like. After all it's your effort and your vision. I only have to choose whether to use it or not.

JosEPh

JosEPh_II said:

But hey! this is a modmod and I'm just answering and posing questions and voicing my opinion. It's your Work and You should do what you Like. After all it's your effort and your vision. I only have to choose whether to use it or not.

Click to expand...

Don't take my comments or my liking for debates the wrong way, I always welcome any feedback

Rwn said:

Don't take my comments or my liking for debates the wrong way, I always welcome any feedback

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Just didn't want you to take my comments and likings the wrong way either.

JosEPh

Thunderbrd said:

Another thing... I'd LOVE to see this as an actual game option rather than just a modmod. The replacement mechanism could be used to achieve that. And selecting the option could be made to enforce fight or flight as non-optional. Just sayin'. This is the kind of stuff I was trying to enable with my work. Thanks for bringing this vision to life guys!

Click to expand...

At the moment I think it should stay a modmod. I still have about 10 animals to add and it is hard enough remembering everything that has to be added in with the current options.

BTW I have given up for now on the idea of having a smaller subset of animals available as an option. It needs a bit more thinking as WoC does not let you base a building on the existence of an animal (unitclass). The unit classes are not loaded at the time the test is done so the result is the building is dropped.