Questions about Culture Victory

This part of the game is where I'm lacking, so I'd like a consensus on the following:

1. What happens after Education? Beeline to Printing Press, Acoustics or Astronomy. I'd imagine Astronomy is mostly worth it on a water map where it's more important to meet all civs as quickly as possible. I'd also assume it's related to how close the Renaissance is for the Ratio opener. Or, straight to PP so you can get workshops after unis and start working on Pisa.

2. Turn time for Archeology on Standard pace? Before or after ST? Buy schools then produce archeologists, or produce archeologists and buy museums and delay schools. Foreign first and domestic second? How many artifacts can you realistically manage to dig up?

3. World's Fair. I have a bit of a dislike towards it, because it's all kinds of inconvenient. Usually it comes up as first proposal meaning it comes around 150-160, and that's generally a bit of a busy period. But, not winning makes culture victory a lot more difficult.

4. Is rushing ideology an imperative? Can you use Oxford on something else preferably since its other big purpose is that it's basically a free wonder for storing a pair of great works of writing, so I'd assume it's better to have it sooner rather than later.

5. Are RLabs worth it at the point they're unlocked? Is it then Internet or Airports?

6. Lastly, at times I'm quite disappointed when I miss out on culture wonders, but that may not be the case? I've seen (and played) games where Louvre, Oxford, Hermitage and museums can be more than enough, maybe add one wonder.

Good question, i'm very much interested in this too. Culture Victory is my fav, but the last time i won this way is long ago. On lower difficulties i always won by accident - maybe because i was wonder spamming. Now i really don't know how to do it right, i always end up winning Dom or Sci.
I was searching for a Culture Vic Guide just a few weeks ago here, but couldn't find anything, maybe there is one? Would like to read something from the good players here, what tech path is ideal, are there any key wonders at all that you need etc. etc.

Thanks for bringing this up stormtrooper!

1. What happens after Education? Beeline to Printing Press, Acoustics or Astronomy. I'd imagine Astronomy is mostly worth it on a water map where it's more important to meet all civs as quickly as possible. I'd also assume it's related to how close the Renaissance is for the Ratio opener. Or, straight to PP so you can get workshops after unis and start working on Pisa.

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Personally, I go for workshops before education. This might make an ideal turn time suffer, but I think it has added benefits to win ratio. You get an infrastructure of production in all your cities, which turns out to be important when you get to that "busy period" you mention. It also guarantees you a GE when you're arriving at the wonder of your choice. At this point you can be spying on the suspected culture leader and deciding if you want to go to PP for another GE. Acoustics can be nice after you finally get education, but it depends really on how far ahead/behind you are. I'd be tempted most of the time to go straight to PP. I usually don't unlock Rationalism as quick as everyone else; I prefer to go three policies +1 into aesthetics for the golden age. My idea is that what's the point of having so much science if you can't build things in the time.

2. Turn time for Archeology on Standard pace? Before or after ST? Buy schools then produce archeologists, or produce archeologists and buy museums and delay schools. Foreign first and domestic second? How many artifacts can you realistically manage to dig up?

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Acken may make me rethink this, but I usually go Archeology after ideology. There are almost always enough sites available because you are bound to be tech leading ahead of someone. I go public schools first.

3. World's Fair. I have a bit of a dislike towards it, because it's all kinds of inconvenient. Usually it comes up as first proposal meaning it comes around 150-160, and that's generally a bit of a busy period. But, not winning makes culture victory a lot more difficult.

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World's Fair is great, and you should be able to win it, if you have invested in production infrastructure in your cities. A minimal pause in your production queue, more or less whatever you're building. Plus it gets love from AIs almost inconditionally.

4. Is rushing ideology an imperative? Can you use Oxford on something else preferably since its other big purpose is that it's basically a free wonder for storing a pair of great works of writing, so I'd assume it's better to have it sooner rather than later.

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Getting into the modern has various advantages: choosing first ideology (+2 SP), Eiffel Tower, free spy, Oxford if you used that. Defs worth doing.

5. Are RLabs worth it at the point they're unlocked? Is it then Internet or Airports?

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I build RLabs but I heard Acken wasn't so big on them, focusing more on Archeology, Hotels, etc. Defs bulb internet first then back to Airports.

6. Lastly, at times I'm quite disappointed when I miss out on culture wonders, but that may not be the case? I've seen (and played) games where Louvre, Oxford, Hermitage and museums can be more than enough, maybe add one wonder.

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You don't "need" any wonders. On my Arabia LP I hardly got any. I would strongly recommend avoiding the Louvre though. It costs a SP which could be used to provide you with at least the benefits that the Louvre brings you.

Remember to prioritise the cultural city states, especially those allied by the culture leaders. And then the religious ones, because you're going to need enough faith (2500 or 5000) to purchase some GMs at the end.

Not wanting to self-publicise or anything but I have LPed 4 peaceful culture victories, if you want to see how it's done by someone who rarely loses but gets turn times around 270-280, check them out. Check Acken out if you want to really pump the turn times.

I was searching for a Culture Vic Guide just a few weeks ago here, but couldn't find anything, maybe there is one? Would like to read something from the good players here, what tech path is ideal, are there any key wonders at all that you need etc. etc.

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There is one, made by Deau. It's perhaps a little outdated by now I'd say, but definitely worth taking a look. I follow about 75% of what it says.

Deau's guide is fairly good, yes. But things have changed a bit since so I'm looking for ways to update myself.

Most people put a heavy focus on archeology I've seen but there seems to be too much stuff to leverage around the end of industrial era, because you'd ideally want to win the world's fair, get as much archeologists as possible, and score Eiffel and/or Louvre if available.

Am I right if I say the culture game should priorities workshops after unis, instead of banks and operas. Once you untick Aesthetics, you should be able to make up the time you lost delaying operas, and end up with a fairly quick Hermitage

stormtrooper412 said:

This part of the game is where I'm lacking, so I'd like a consensus on the following:

1. What happens after Education? Beeline to Printing Press, Acoustics or Astronomy. I'd imagine Astronomy is mostly worth it on a water map where it's more important to meet all civs as quickly as possible. I'd also assume it's related to how close the Renaissance is for the Ratio opener. Or, straight to PP so you can get workshops after unis and start working on Pisa.

2. Turn time for Archeology on Standard pace? Before or after ST? Buy schools then produce archeologists, or produce archeologists and buy museums and delay schools. Foreign first and domestic second? How many artifacts can you realistically manage to dig up?

3. World's Fair. I have a bit of a dislike towards it, because it's all kinds of inconvenient. Usually it comes up as first proposal meaning it comes around 150-160, and that's generally a bit of a busy period. But, not winning makes culture victory a lot more difficult.

4. Is rushing ideology an imperative? Can you use Oxford on something else preferably since its other big purpose is that it's basically a free wonder for storing a pair of great works of writing, so I'd assume it's better to have it sooner rather than later.

5. Are RLabs worth it at the point they're unlocked? Is it then Internet or Airports?

6. Lastly, at times I'm quite disappointed when I miss out on culture wonders, but that may not be the case? I've seen (and played) games where Louvre, Oxford, Hermitage and museums can be more than enough, maybe add one wonder.

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1. If you play liberty I suggest workshop before education. Astronomy if you need observatories or to meet other civs. In other cases I'd go acoustics because I find it unlikely you'll reach PP before the next policy. But getting Metal casting before accoustics is fine if you will still get into renaissance in time.

2. Around 160 maybe. I just get it after Radio and chemistry. Sometimes after industrialisation too, rushing a couple factories can help this busy period. How many you can dig up really depends only on the timing. Be late and you'll miss a lot. I usually am able to fill all museums + a couple more. Even when playing 6-7 cities.

3. If you have a lot of wonders passing world heritage is a good option instead of WF. Either way yes WF first often comes at an awkward moment.

4. I don't know if it's imperative but it helps happiness, reaching modern boost city states and Freedom has a lot of culture bonuses. I don't see what Oxford could be used better on.

5. I often skip research labs. Granted I don't settle my GS nor bulb before the end when playing a CV. Some games don't even need airports. Reaching internet after Plastics with only school-powered GSs is trivial. I often feel I'm like 1 short however if I also need airports on top of it. If I have the faith I just buy the guy.
Internet first. Bigger boost and NVC takes some time to build. Will allow you to judge if you really need airports too. Just hoard gold while going internet, you'll buy the airports if necessary.

6. National stuff like hermitage oxford and filled museum can be enough if you still reach internet fast enough. The faster you go the crappier your tourism is allowed to be (and vice versa). Winning the international games will also often make things trivial. Or playing Brazil.

stormtrooper412 said:

3. World's Fair. I have a bit of a dislike towards it, because it's all kinds of inconvenient. Usually it comes up as first proposal meaning it comes around 150-160, and that's generally a bit of a busy period. But, not winning makes culture victory a lot more difficult.

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Usually my strong cultural games have only two WC propositions - world religion first and IG second - victory. You should have already enough culture from great works, aesthetics, etc to fill SPs- you play cultural game - right?

BTW I'm gonna play this challenge
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=548353
and will try to write detailed AAR in case if someone is interested.

Where, if anywhere, does war feature in your CV games?

Do you try and clear a continent and then go peaceful or do you take down runaways in the late game?


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I play peacefully, but bribe others to war against cultural leader.

To deal with runaway I sell city and bomb him with 2 GMs what usually is enough.

IronfighterXXX said:

Usually my strong cultural games have only two WC propositions - world religion first and IG second - victory. You should have already enough culture from great works, aesthetics, etc to fill SPs- you play cultural game - right?

BTW I'm gonna play this challenge
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=548353
and will try to write detailed AAR in case if someone is interested.

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I'm looking forward to this.

About WF, it's exactly what I mean and keep advocating, but perhaps I worded it badly, in my experiences it's only good to win the WF not because of the culture boost but because it stops an AI from running away to 30-50k worth of culture, so the safest bet is that the WF never happens. That way you don't waste archeology hammers and you don't risk creating a runaway

Thanks Ironfighter.

Was trying that in last game but culture leader (Boudicca) was swallowing other Civs whole!

Abandoned that one and was starting afresh with a CB rush continent clear but not so sure about that strategy.


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Can you even pass world religion? It seems that it is one thing that every civ will hate you for if you propose and I do not think I have ever passed it, so I do not even try it anymore.

You can pass it without too much problem by bribing civs without a religion to vote for it. However sometimes the AI will hate you afterwards and I'm not always sure it was worth it. Risk of wars (or bribes) and risk of losing open borders.
It's no problem if the haters are low on cultures and/or if you will finish quickly anyway but I haven't found it to always be a good idea... it's kind of where HoF stuff don't necessarily always apply.

Play it just like a science victory, except beeline Internet instead of Satellites (almost; you need some things from the bottom and middle of the tech tree.) Then come back and research Radar and build/buy airports. If you might need real bombers and fighters sooner than that, rush to Radar after taking Refrigeration, then resume researching the top row.

Eiffel Tower and Broadway are priority wonders. They both become available at Radio; and Radio is my typical path to an early ideology rather than doing Industrialization and factories. I try to GE the tower and then put my city focus on production and hard-build Broadway. That's assuming I got to Radio before even finishing all the Renaissance era techs.

I always like to open Exploration if the map has oceans, for the extra sight and movement, and to unlock the Louvre. Last couple of games I've been filling Exploration instead of just opening it and the production boosts and the hidden antiquities are amazing. I don't finish it until after I've taken a policy or two in Rationalism, otherwise I get the hidden antiquity sites before I have museums, and a useless extra admiral to feed.

I'm only playing at King level; maybe this falls apart at higher difficulties.

Broadway and Exploration (Louvre) are bad moves, I think

zxcvbob said:

Eiffel Tower and Broadway are priority wonders.

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Strongly disagree on Broadway. I find it hard to believe Broadway can match 3x 4000+ strength GM bomb.

If anything is priority, I'd say the Sistine Chapel is it for a CV. Much more than even Louvre imo, that's why I always enter Renaissance through Acoustics.

How do you get open borders for the GM bombs? By the time they would be useful, the AI's all hate my guts (even my friends hate me); it doesn't even matter I've been playing peacefully with just a few cities.

Or do you declare war and escort him to the battlefield with an infantry or strong ship?

I guess you're also delaying building the musician's guild?

Acken said:

You can pass it without too much problem by bribing civs without a religion to vote for it. However sometimes the AI will hate you afterwards and I'm not always sure it was worth it. Risk of wars (or bribes) and risk of losing open borders.

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Hate from WR is one of most exaggerated things on this forum imo.

It's only one bright red modifier - same as 'you settle your cities too aggressively' ( you play many liberty games lately , so you should know ),
but coming much later (you have about 100 turns to prepare your diplomacy on it), last only ~25 turns and after next IG proposition everyone will be liked you again.

IronfighterXXX said:

Hate from WR is one of most exaggerated things on this forum imo.

It's only one bright red modifier - same as 'you settle your cities too aggressively' ( you play many liberty games lately , so you should know ),
but coming much later (you have about 100 turns to prepare your diplomacy on it), last only ~25 turns and after next IG proposition everyone will be liked you again.

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Recently Japan made the resolution for D'ohism to be be WR. That caught me totally by surprise because I didn't realize that 2 of Oda's 3 cities still followed my religion; England was on the same continent and was really spamming missionaries. I voted all my delegates for it, and it passed. No hatred directed at me for it.