Immortal Challenge: War is Peace

Okay, so based on this, I'm now thinking Agri->Bw->Fishing now. BW will help chopping out WB's was my logic to BW first. Worker first probably also now seems a good idea too.

I'd say settling on the stone is the only sensible play. Instant +2 and gets rid of -negative tile.

Now that we have power tiles to build the work boat and no better tile available than coastal clam, I think fishing first is the best way.

I'll build some warriors until fishing is in and try to steal some workers. SB will be hated by everyone, so he is the prime target. Rags (Hereditary rule) and Isabella (religion) are not hard to get to friendly, so I'd avoid stealing from them, if possible.

Played out the first two turns There is a rice tile which leads me to think Worker first and research Agri. As for SB, gotta see if he's close enough to steal from

Yes, I know about the rice. But it's dry (4) so 2 worse than a clam. Unlike in Pericles start, when wet rice was 51, a superior tile to a clam.

Now, the questions begin.

Research: I'm leaning towards BW right now. Is that the optimal choice? I do want to find copper ASAP to deal with the barbs that will soon be coming in their hordes.

City Two: I've highlighted two possibilities for city choices. One can share capitals rice to grow and is closer, whilst the other is a square further but has it's own food source. Which is the better? I'm inclined to think further one is the better option.

Building Workboat: Is it best to grow city using rice to 2 and work PH (6 turn wb) or to work PH straight away (5 turn wb)? I'm thinking best to work rice but I may be wrong!

Yes, from this position (grow in 2 turns ?), you should probably complete the workboat from size 2.
If in doubt, you can check (calculate) your food + hammer count in both options, at a same turn.

This is an interesting one.
- Agriculture + worker allows to improve 3 tiles, so it may be the most efficient choice. However, if one wants Fishing afterwards, then the tech path become very constraining (The Wheel mandatory, delaying BW or any other desired tech). Alternatively, one could delay Fishing so that he could afford BW... hmm... maybe, hadn't considered that. The point is that Agri --> Fish --> BW doesn't work too well.
- Fishing first, otoh, provides some much needed commerce and probably a slower start. The earlier commerce from fishing boats is somewhat rendered moot by a later gold mine (if one settles that). Fishing first, however, allows for more freedom in the tech path. BW, Masonry or even Sailing could all be researched early.

I went for Fishing as I mostly wanted to found Judaism (don't follow the line I am free form) and Fishing first gives that liberty,
However, I suspect the more standard approach (Agri, Fishing, The Wheel) is the superior. Maybe Fishing into BW is just as good, not sure. BW could make up for the later worker but the cost in forests (a limited resource) is real. There's also some liberty with that approach (Fish, BW, then what ?).

Turn log events


So far, it isn't looking too bad! No copper anywhere nearby unfortunately, this will get tough in a few turns when the archers start spawning.








From here on:
-@BiC, you are very right about the Tech Path, there are multiple options that can be taken, all of which are valid (and not considerably sub-optimal). Judaism is an interesting one From the Fishing->BW path, I think now I guess going Agri->TW seems like the right choice to make. OR Agri->AH. Raging barbs is going to be tough with all this open land.

-I have a warrior ready to steal another worker from SB. Also plan to chop one out along with a settler.

-Second city option, I am leaning towards settling the gold rice city in the East closer to Shaka. Will that be a wise option considering Shaka will be my neighbor; I have a feeling not! Alternatively, I could stay close to home and settle the gold.

-The landmass to the south may be worth exploring sooner rather than later, it may be a separate island not connected to the mainland at all.

-Is a HA rush viable? I've never really done one before so not sure if it is before or after Currency. I'm guessing before and if so, the AI are all quite far from me it seems so maintenance costs will kill.

fishing-BW starting on masonry, which is a bit out of the box, but I want to put some into SH and GW for failgold, since I have enough warriors for now and have nothing else I want to put my into. Agri would be a more normal choice, but since the rice is dry delaying it a bit isn't a disaster.

Met SB T5 and knowing where Monty was coming from T3, it wasn't hard to guess at which direction SBs residence was. Had to wait for his worker quite a bit though. There are a lot of animals, so dunno how you dared to run home unprotected, Revent.

Whipped the 2nd workboat this turn, so I'm quite a bit behind on compared to Revent, since I worked max tiles a lot to get them warriors out spawn-busting asap. I have played on and settled the marked spot, but it certainly isn't the only possible spot. I just thought the capital has enough to whip settlers from size 4 and I want to work the rice all the time. At least for me, whipping settlers is the main reason to go early BW, as I usually want to save capital forests for later use.

Settling 1NW of gold would claim the other dry rice after border pop, but kinda kills the banana and makes it hard to claim phants, as Monty is very likely to settle the mark which is incidentally marked "monty3" (because I met him there T3). Maybe 1E of rice is the best spot in that direction.

If I were you, I'd work clam+clam+3 now in capital to get out a couple of warriors asap! Then switch to tiles with more food and try to time it so that you have say 5-6 warriors out when you reach size 6, then whip settler.

I don't think claiming that rice+gold is a good idea with your next settler, it's just too far and barbs will pillage your improvements.

It takes 58 food to grow from size 4 to 6.
I don't think it's such a good deal to grow that large before starting on the settler,
Especially since Revent can chop.
Slowbuilding from size 4 would probably be faster.

There are many techs that can be targeted. And you should decide on what you wanna do, Revent.
Sitting on Stone is a nice incentive to research Masonry but... Stonehenge, Great Wall, Pyramids, all of these require a different timing : no need to rush Masonry just to get the Pyramids, for example.
If you want far away river/coast connections (and/or the GLH), then early Sailing can make sense.
If you want a more standard development, then probably techs such as The Wheel and Animal Husbandry should be targeted. They'll get you faster to Writing + Scientists + Academy than Masonry/Sailing detours.
Priesthood can also be a consideration but requires to settle the western gold 1st ring.

Yeah, I thought about it some more and chopping even some capital forests to settlers/workers pre-math can be very good. I don't usually go for a fast BW and I am not sure why I did it here. Maybe raging barbs scared me.

On slowbuilding settler vs whipping, I am pretty sure whipping wins you some hammers if you have decent food tiles, which you do. Growing from size 3 to 6 costs 26+28+30=84 which you can then transform to 90 via whip. Slightly better conversion than when slowbuilding, plus at every size you win one because a new tile is worked. You have to put those hammers into something less useful than a settler though, but I think you need quite many warriors here.

I'm not sure how Raging Barbs play out exactly. Extra safety can be a reason to max in Delhi.
But growing to 6 is just that : maximizing hammers in Delhi.
If it delays the second city, then, overall, it's a loss. The city tile produces 2F1H1C at least and then there's a special that can be improved. Growing 1 more size on a blank forest doesn't compare very well (+1H per pop).

Consider this :
2pop whip = 60H
1 chop = 20H
2 turns building the settler at size 4 = 20+H (depends whether a mine is improved or not)
So at size 4, with a 2pop whip, the settler can be out on the 4th turn (2 turns investing hammers, 1 turn whipping).

Meanwhile, Delhi, from size 3, can produce a maximum of 8 Food per turn.
That's 11 turns to grow from size 3 to 6 and 8 turns to grow from size 4 to 6.

There's the delay

It may not be the best choice to 2pop whip at size 4, however. That loses the rice tile for 4 turns or so (= -8 food ; unless the rice is shared with the second city ... but if it is, then that city needs a Monument first... not too good.)

A 1pop whip is also a valid approach :
1pop whip is 30H
2 chops are 40H
3 turns are 30+H
--> settler out on the 5th turn ... Not sure the worker turns allow that. It would make it a lot easier to grow back to size 4 and start on another build (hence justifying the 1 turn delay on the 1st settler).

or :
1pop whip is 30H
1 chop is 20H
5 turns are 50H
--> settler out on the 7th turn. Still faster than growing 4->6 over 8 turns.

If one doesn't want to lose the yield from the rice (at the cost of delaying whatever special is settled first),
Then a 2pop whip at size 5 can also be considered. I'm quite sure it's better than a 3pop whip from size 6 as well

Did some calcs on pen and paper and reached the same conclusions. Settler is done 1-3 turns later depending on the specifics, and settling earlier does win say 5 per turn at least, so often you win back the and in whip-route you just end up putting the into a warrior instead of something more useful and might lose some .

I'm not playing very well in this game, masonry before agri+AH was such a poor choice that I think I'll replay from T23. Actually I think early BW was slightly bad too (maybe it wouldn't be bad if there was a good copper spot), but that's another matter.