Poll for Replay #10

Hi

I'm currently thinking about recording a 2nd video, because I never finished the other one and because there are way too few really good CIV videos. Settings I'm thinking about are Large / Quick / Conquest and a possible title could be "Legacy" , "A legend's end" or "Let's beat Rusten" , which all refer to either the Replay-series, or the game I'm going to beat.

Now the question: Which civ would you like me to play this game with?

I initially thought about taking Izzy, because she's SPI and because Conqs are a great UU for this type of game, but I could also imagine to play with Frederick, who is very similar to Peter, whom Rusten played but ofc. , he's also my favourite CIV because he's german, he also has nice traits (though not SPI ) and the 3rd choice would be Gandhi, simply because he's the strongest CIV I could take for these settings (SPI, PHI and an amazing UU for Quick speed) , but with Gandhi, I could only merely improve my EQM-ratings, so I'm slightly in favour of Izzy and Frederick.

Plz vote and give your opinion, you can take multiple choices in this poll if you favour two civs or if you can't decide between them. If you leave your opinion, I'm very happy about that. If you have ideas (like i. e. for the title, or also for the settings, like choice or number of opponents, or also if you'd like to see me play with the non-mentioned 4th choice, Ramesses) , please make sure to mention them too in this thread .

Tia,

Seraiel

Hi Serial, sorry for noob question, but is this some kind a "tutorial game" for a conquest victory? Or a game that is supposed to beat some other legendary game with a better victory date? What is it?

Izzy. I hate her starting techs (mysticism, fishing) for deity and would like to see how you overcome them.

Todelotti said:

Hi Serial, sorry for noob question, but is this some kind a "tutorial game" for a conquest victory? Or a game that is supposed to beat some other legendary game with a better victory date? What is it?

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Hi friend that needs to check the spelling of my name again ^^ .

I think this game is both. The "Replay's" have always been sort of a "Walkthrough" for the game, so they had a decent tutorial value, even though the first six parts were on Marathon speed. They also always were some kind of a "challenge" , as the first two parts were to beat Deity at all, then came "the Quest towards the highest Highscore" in which I went against WastinTime and which found it's climax in part 5, and after that came the challenge of transforming to non-Incan leaders and normal game-speed. HoF is all about playing competetively against other players, and the Replay's were kind of a HoF-Deity-series.

I got the idea for this from elitetroops who made me aware again of how difficult only the settings I've chosen are (larger map, faster speed, very competetive game holding the current #1 slot) , and thought that these might be even better to illustrate skill, but also strategies (like a Cuirrassier-rush) and tactics (like micromanagement) , which are harder to pull of on these settings than they're on Standard / Normal.

There were very many wishes for me to record a video that shows me playing, so I just thought that this might be a great opportunity.

My vote went to Freddy. Gandhi is a bit too ideal for quick speed with the fast worker. Isabella on the other hand is a bit too weak, I doubt anyone wanting to learn quick deity would play with a leader like that. Freddy is a decent leader, but with no early uniques he forces you to play the map instead of the UU.

elitetroops said:

My vote went to Freddy. Gandhi is a bit too ideal for quick speed with the fast worker. Isabella on the other hand is a bit too weak, I doubt anyone wanting to learn quick deity would play with a leader like that. Freddy is a decent leader, but with no early uniques he forces you to play the map instead of the UU.

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Just a short note: This video is not for someone wanting to learn Quick speed. It may be nice for someone who has that aim, but what works on Quick must work on Normal more than ever!

And even though I don't want to object your opinion, but Isabella is far from weak. She is SPI, which is one of the best traits, especially for Quick speed where the phase of Anarchy takes really a lot ages, and Conq's are one of the best UUs in the game. Maybe Frederick is stronger, that I don't know because I don't have huge experience on Quick, but I'm guessing that it's not gonna be by much. Maybe I'm wrong about how valuable no-Anarchy-switches are, I see SPI as one of the top four traits of CIV (others being IND, PHI and FIN) .

Argh, even two spelling errors combined, sorry I'll vote for Freddy as well for the same reasons that elitetroops mentioned. That sounds like a very interesting game!

Todelotti said:

Argh, even two spelling errors combined, sorry I'll vote for Freddy as well for the same reasons that elitetroops mentioned. That sounds like a very interesting game!

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Yes, shame on you also twice! I thought you voted for us germans because you like your civ. elitetroops just voted for them because he wants to see me stuck into anarchy forever .

Seraiel said:

Yes, shame on you also twice! I thought you voted for us germans because you like your civ. elitetroops just voted for them because he wants to see me stuck into anarchy forever .

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I always write your name with two spelling errors, only this time they didn't compensate! Just voted for german because I want to see you doing something with Freddy's (haha) Panzers. Also here's an expert advice: Forget SPI, for conquest you just need to change civics once to switch into Police State and Nationhood and you do this in a golden age !!!

Todelotti said:

I always write your name with two spelling errors, only this time they didn't compensate! Just voted for german because I want to see you doing something with Freddy's (haha) Panzers. Also here's an expert advice: Forget SPI, for conquest you just need to change civics once to switch into Police State and Nationhood and you do this in a golden age !!!

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I agree with you in that way, that Freddy may be a good leader to show something with this game. SPI maybe is too big of a gamechanger, because you can switch to the other civs civics and religions to extort techs from them. PHI is a gamechanger too, but it's easier to compensate for twice as fast GPs, if you play a non-PHI-leader, as you can just compensate for the missing bulbs by additional , which i. e. also could come through the traits you have instead (if you're i. e. FIN) .

I don't hope Panzers will play any role in the game, as that would mean that the game goes as far as the one of Rusten went. Also, Panzers are basically a non-factor, because even if I got armored units, the AIs probably wouldn't, and then there are always Nukes.

Seems like the germans are as popular as they're in the real world .

Gandhi is way over-played and War Chariots make the game a bit too easy... either you will have a Horse Resource or you will quit and start a new map until you get one.

Spiritual for rounds of of Caste System (don't bother building many Libraries, but do generate Great People) followed by rounds of Slavery (whip for a while and then regrow Cities which aren't generating Great People when back in Caste System), will make for some fun playing. Toss in Organized Religion and Pacifism for extra fun.

Also, you can actually consider leveraging Vassalage and Theology for a bit, too, while slipping in and out of Police State at the right times.

Spiritual is certainly a conqueror's Civic, as the more Cities that you capture, the worse the turns of Anarchy will get. Also, every turn spent in Anarchy early on means your armies reaching the AIs' lands even later, which makes for harder warring.

Toss in a quickly-built first Worker to get another early edge toward your first wars.

Cuirassiers who can ignore Pikemen (Conquistadors) are amazingly fun to play with... akin to a speedy War Elephant, such that they dominate their era.

Citadels can be fun if the AIs are running away with the techs, as you'll already have Stone (from building or capturing The Pyramids) to make them cheap and they're an interesting way to get you increased effectiveness of the Espionage slider, for either causing City Revolts or for stealing techs. Also, over-powered siege units can help to get you out of a sticky situation on your way to Conquistadors.


As for Frederick, Philosophical sounds good on the surface, but Spiritual is often more powerful in a game where you don't need to tech a whole lot, as you don't have to first build a Library in order to get your Specialists, you can get Great Merchants early, and you can still keep on whipping.

Organized is nice, but without the Spiritual Trait, just how much would you even be leveraging cheaper Civic costs? Meanwhile, every City ideally wants a 1-pop-whip Granary with Isabella's Expansive Trait. It is very powerful to only have to grow to Size 2 rather than Size 4 before being able to whip a Granary.

Germany's Unique Building and Unique Unit come too late in the game to be of use, so you'd only be playing for national pride, and while that's a nice motivator, it's probably the strongest factor that favours Frederick, so it will be up to you if that reason will be enough to pick Frederick.


Either way, try to pick a theme to make your game more entertaining. Isabella could be played with the theme of "Destroy the Heathens," where the first Religion that spreads to your Civ is the Religion that you want to see spread throughout the world and any AI who isn't running that State Religion is a valid war target. Only after you have attacked, say, half of the AIs can you turn on AIs who run that State Religion. Obviously, if the only remaining AIs share that Religion as their State Religion, you can start attacking those AIs sooner than halfway through the AIs.

For Frederick, play against all of the Russian Leaders and you cannot declare war on any Russian Leader until you've attacked, say, half of the other AIs.

You really got a very good understanding of the SPI trait Dhoom. I also just thought of all those easy borderpops one can get too with being SPI... I find it impossible to compare Frederick to Isabel, it drives me insane to just think about all the different options that come with them. You seem to think much clearer in favour of SPI, and my intuition somehow says to me, that I should just remember that amazing experience I had when playing a test round with her. The possibility to switch to Caste to get easier borderpops, and the access to Merchants, which allows creating a GM to upgrade HAs into Conqs, those are amazing possibilities, and then, being able to switch towards a civ's Religion and favourite Civic is even a bigger factor making up for the greater tech-speed of PHI. Yes, cheaper GPs, but what are cheaper GPs, if one needs to spend endless resources on setting up the cities... In a Spacerace that doesn't matter, as one will need Libraries everywhere anyhow, but in a Conquest-game, where building Military has the top-priority? I also have my usual problems with ORG, half-price Courthouses are better than usual in this case because of Tororidal Worldwrap, but then, how is it possible to argue against a half-price Granaries, the most important building in the whole game!

I hope we get some more votes, as I'm currently very undecided. The choice of opponents you propose sounds funny, but I'm not sure if the rules with which I should play according to you are just too much of a hindrance. I also believe that the game should be interesting enough on its own, there won't be many videos with such difficult settings, probably none, and then I'll hopefully will play really well. I don't want to diss Absolute Zero or TMIT, but they do make a lot of errors because of playing fast.

You're probably right that Gandhi or Ramesses would be too cheesy, I still remember that it's possible to rush two civs with War Chariots on some maps, I'd probably even croud the map with max-opponents then, which would leave most civs with place for 2-3 cities, while I would have something like 5-6. Gandhi is a class on his own on Quick speed because he's SPI and PHI. The Fast Worker I again value as not being better than the War Chariots, because how good are fewer Fast Workers than some more that are not fast and that are available for free?

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We really need some more votes and especially some more opinions my friends! It's always possible to argue, that I chose Isabella over Frederick, because Dhoomstriker or somebody else argued so well for her, that I just couldn't give her a pass, I also still owe Shulec a favour, because I didn't participate in a Gauntlet to which he invited me some time ago. I won't do that though, if Frederick's lead even enlarges, or if Freddy gets some more and better arguments, currently it's elitetroops and Todelotti that favour him, but though their arguments are good and precise, Dhoomstriker really argues very well in favour of Isabel, and how could I deny shulec his wish for the 2nd time already! Also, I know that this won't be the most popular opinion, but wouldn't you like to see me demolish Rusten's game completely by playing HoF-style (War Chariots, BFC-Horses, crouded map) ? People always seemed to like the crazyness of my games, what if I finish this game with Cuirrassiers instead of starting the first war with them?

Dhoomstriker does indeed give some very convincing arguments for Isabella. Didn't think of the spiritual trait. Would be very interesting to see how you leverage that. I think proper use of SPI is more of a mystery to most people than proper use of PHI. Cannot change my vote anymore, but probably would if I could.

elitetroops said:

Dhoomstriker does indeed give some very convincing arguments for Isabella. Didn't think of the spiritual trait. Would be very interesting to see how you leverage that. I think proper use of SPI is more of a mystery to most people than proper use of PHI. Cannot change my vote anymore, but probably would if I could.

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We'll simply keept track manually. Isabella gets +1 vote and Frederick -1, so atm. they're both even at 7 votes.

I don't want to diss Absolute Zero or TMIT, but they do make a lot of errors because of playing fast.

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It's not a dis, more like an observation. I'd have to be crazy not to admit to making errors due to playing fast, and a poor player not to see them when watching later.

I vote Frederick. If you aim to de-throne a great player's roster slot and are feeling a little extra incentive due to how highly that player is regarded, might as well pick someone very similar functionally (late uniques, solid traits). If anything, Germany not having Cossacks means it would be even more impressive.

So again a vote for Frederick.

What I forgot: Frederick starts with a Scout, Isabella doesn't. On Quick speed, that is a definite advantage, because it's almost impossible to meet all AIs 'til Alpha. Frederick and Peter btw. have the same starting techs, both got Hunting and Mining... I love Mining-civs, because of the possibility to find BW in a hut. I'm not gonna get many of them, but 2-4 huts at max. should be possible having a Scout.

Didn't think of Cossacks initially... They're not über, but they do make a difference when going against someone that has War Elephants. Lets hope not many will.

The general consensus seems to be that (almost) everybody wants me to have a hard game, almost no Votes for Gandhi and even less for Ramesses.

Seraiel said:

Hi friend that needs to check the spelling of my name again ^^ .

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Hey Cereal (a.k.a. Shredded Wheat) ,

I personally would like to see a War Chariot romp. I vote for Ramesses. I don't see that as Cheesy at all. Rusten had a free choice so I don't think you should feel compelled to pick a leader "similar" to his.

My second choice would be Izzy.

My $0.02.

Mitchum said:

Hey Cereal (a.k.a. Shredded Wheat) ,

I personally would like to see a War Chariot romp. I vote for Ramesses. I don't see that as Cheesy at all. Rusten had a free choice so I don't think you should feel compelled to pick a leader "similar" to his.

My second choice would be Izzy.

My $0.02.

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You're still laughing (now) , but wait until I report that post at Leif Erickson, he's gonna shred you to pieces for your trolling . When he's done with you -> .

If I make one person crack a smile with my comment, it doesn't even have to be a big one, it was worth it.

By the way, by putting this thing to a vote you realize that you HAVE to take the majority position or else you'll be looked down upon for going against the community's wishes. So if you want, I'll take 5 sammiches as a down payment, I'll create several fake accounts, and then vote for the leader you want. But let's keep this on the down low... no one else needs to know about it, okay?

Out of curiosity, how is this thing going to play out? I know that there are a lot of stops and starts when playing a HoF-style game. Are you going to record the first 50 moves of several games and then pick the one that you want to play forward with? Or are you just going to take the start that you've chosen and play it out until the end?