Do You Think the GI Bill is Fair to the American People?

Simple question just to see what people generally think of what I believe to be the most valuable and essential benefit to veterans out there: the GI Bill. For those who may not be aware of what the GI Bill is, it is a program established after WWII in the United States that essentially grants anyone who served in the military a free college education. The logic behind the program being that those who serve are giving up the years of their life that they could be spending on higher education in order to serve their nation, so in return the nation attempts to give those years back by making it easy for a veteran to go back to school and get the education they would otherwise miss out on. The Post 9/11 GI Bill now even allows veterans with 10 or more years of service to transfer their GI Bill benefits to their spouse or their children as well and pays a monthly housing allowance to the veteran regardless of employment or income status on top of paying the tuition to the school.

So what does CFC think? Do you think it is fair that veterans are guaranteed a free college education while the rest of the nation struggles with predatory student loans and ever increasing tuition costs for higher education? Simple 'yes' and 'no' poll added. Also, if you don't think it is fair that veterans get a free college education, why do think it is unfair?

Seems to me that the best course of action is to also give free education to non-veterans

Lohrenswald said:

Seems to me that the best course of action is to also give free education to non-veterans

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Well one could say that veterans paid for their college education with their service. I see the GI Bill not as a free ride for veterans, but rather a benefit provided by an employer as a recruitment and retention incentive. You know, kind of like how some companies will provide some tuition assistance for employees.

I also think the GI Bill is an essential transition tool for veterans who leave the service. Being able to easily go back to school helps veterans reintegrate back into civilian life and helps them gain skills that will make them much more employable in the civilian private sector.

Indeed. Why is it so great for ex-soldiers but not everybody else?

I think if it is not extended to everybody it should be abolished. It is helping to entrap American youth into being the pawns of warmongers overseas. And allowing their family members to get a free ride after 9/11 is just bonkers for the very same reason. If they want to fight such unpopular and unjust wars let the warmongers go themselves, instead of sending kids who just want a free education.

Formaldehyde said:

Indeed. Why is it so great for ex-soldiers but not everybody else?

I think if it is not extended to everybody it should be abolished. It is helping to entrap American youth into being the pawns of warmongers overseas. And allowing their family members to get a free ride after 9/11 is just bonkers for the very same reason. If they want to fight such unpopular and unjust wars let the warmongers go themselves, instead of sending kids who just want a free education.

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Read my post above about it being an employment benefit and an extremely valuable transition tool for veterans.

You also make it seem like an entire generation is being snatched up into fighting this war. At any given moment right now, only about 1% of the total US population is serving in the military. This held true, even during the height of our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. So it's not like the youth of today are beating down the doors of their local recruitment stations to join up just for that college education. Not to mention, it's an extremely cheap program compared to some of the other things the government spends taxpayer dollars on. Since 2009 the GI Bill has cost the US government a grand total of $20 billion. That's about $3.3 billion a year. That's chump change compared to the entire budget of the US government.

Also, soldiers do pay for their GI Bill benefits, although it is a miniscule amount compared to the total benefits they receive. The soldier gives up a total of $1,200 taken out in installments from their first four paychecks. At least that was the amount when I enlisted, I have no idea what it is now.

EDIT: Plus, soldiers still pay income tax too, so it can been seen as soldiers are paying for their benefits that way as well.

So long as our great grandchildren don't mind paying China back for funding it, I guess it's ok. Seems a little paternalistic. There should be a check-off where a member of the military can take a modest pay increase today in exchange for giving up such benefits.

JollyRoger said:

So long as our great grandchildren don't mind paying China back for funding it, I guess it's ok. Seems a little paternalistic. There should be a check-off where a member of the military can take a modest pay increase today in exchange for giving up such benefits.

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Cost is hardly the problem with the GI Bill. As I stated above, the cost of the GI Bill is nothing compared to the entire budget. Annually, the GI Bill comprises approximately 0.2% of the budget. A program that doesn't even come close to even being 1% of the budget is hardly something our grandchildren are going to be paying for.

If it such a small part of the budget, then it seems to be a program that can be expanded beyond GIs.

Commodore said:

Read my post above about it being an employment benefit and an extremely valuable transition tool for veterans.

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The point is that those who don't want to be professional soldiers and retire much earlier than usual on their incredibly generous taxpayer-paid plan shouldn't become soldiers in the first place. This should be a decision they voluntarily make instead of conning them into thinking they can be reserves one weekend a month then finding themselves fighting for their lives in a silly war that nobody should be at. That the training they will receive in the US military will lead to high-paying jobs once they get out.

Commodore said:

RYou also make it seem like an entire generation is being snatched up into fighting this war. At any given moment right now, only about 1% of the total US population is serving in the military.

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But how many of them are kids who were lured into joining by deceptive recruitment practices and offers of free college educations? Kids whose employment opportunities out of school were bleak at best? I think it is time we stop making them our cannon fodder and have a completely volunteer army without any attempts to entrap the unwitting into a military life they will likely regret if there really is any combat involved.

Commodore said:

Since 2009 the GI Bill has cost the US government a grand total of $20 billion. That's about $3.3 billion a year. That's chump change compared to the entire budget of the US government.

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So let's extend it to everybody. Then the military couldn't use it as a carrot to lure the unsuspecting into their lair, and everybody could enjoy the fruits of being able to improve themselves if they wish to do so, instead of limiting it to those who survive the next Iraq War.

How much does the US military spend on just recruiting every year?

JollyRoger said:

If it such a small part of the budget, then it seems to be a program that can be expanded beyond GIs.

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For what it's worth, I am in favor of taxpayer funded education for all, but trying to get that passed in the US is about as likely as me farting out a unicorn. So until universal education becomes a reality in the US, I think the GI Bill is about the best chance veterans have for having a successful and productive life after the military.

Although, if we only view it in the context of an employer benefit, I wouldn't be against something like the GI Bill being extended to all federal employees.

I thought we were paying taxpayer dollars to teach members of the military some self discipline. Given such self-discipline, why is the GI Bill even needed? If an 18 year can successfully get through college without something like the GI Bill, why does a veteran need the crutch? They should be much better at it than a 18 year old.

Formaldehyde said:

The point is that those who don't want to be professional soldiers and retire much earlier than usual on their incredibly generous taxpayer-paid plan shouldn't become soldiers in the first place. This should be a decision they voluntarily make instead of conning them into thinking they can be reserves one weekend a month then finding themselves fighting for their lives in a silly war that nobody should be at. That the training they will receive in the US military will lead to high-paying jobs once they get out.

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I completely agree with the bolded part. But what about veterans like me who wanted to be a professional soldier for life, but couldn't because of a permanent injury sustained while in the military? Since I planned on being a soldier until the day they forced me to retire, I picked a job that only had value in the military world. Sure, I could probably go off and be a mercenary somewhere, but that's not really a viable option since I have a wife and a daughter. That is the real purpose of the GI Bill. It is supposed to help those who only knew the military way of life become something other than a soldier again. That's also why I am of the opinion that GI Bill benefits should not be extended to National Guard and reserve personnel, since they are not professional soldiers. They have jobs that they can go back to when the military is done with them. Hell, there are even federal laws that say employers cannot permanently replace National Guard or reserve personnel who have to leave the job to serve and have to keep a job open for them when they return. No such protection exists for professional soldiers.

Disabled while serving in the military is an entirely different story. I think it is clear there should be government plans to help people such as yourself to find new careers. You should also get ample disability and early retirement benefits based on how long you served.

What I object to are the usually extremely deceptive recruitment practices to lure kids into the military. A free college education is usually at the top of the list. I just wonder how many actually get that free education, and why the military feels it must bribe people so strongly to try to get them to serve.

Many corporations have programs where employees can take college courses in their spare time which they help defray the costs. I think this sort of program is quite reasonable.

JollyRoger said:

I thought we were paying taxpayer dollars to teach members of the military some self discipline. Given such self-discipline, why is the GI Bill even needed? If an 18 year can successfully get through college without something like the GI Bill, why does a veteran need the crutch? They should be much better at it than a 18 year old.

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Because the average 18-year-old isn't completely reprogrammed into a certain way of life. The military really isn't like any other form of employment in that manner. There is no civilian employer that requires you to completely forget everything you learned about how to live and accept a completely new way of life. So people coming out of the military essentially have to relearn everything about living in the civilian world again. Why do you think so many veterans struggle to find employment after the military, even if they did take a job that taught them valuable skills? It's because we get used to a certain way of doing things and that way is completely different from how civilian employers do things. It makes soldiers incompatible with the corporate culture, which makes employers reluctant to hire veterans.

So, veterans need a transition period where they can relearn how to function in the civilian world again. That's where the GI Bill comes in. Plus, the GI Bill can also be seen as a "thank you for your service" from the US government. And seeing as veterans like me gave Uncle Sam the best years of our lives, a free education is the least they can do for us.

The GI bill will fail.

Commodore said:

Because the average 18-year-old isn't completely reprogrammed into a certain way of life. The military really isn't like any other form of employment in that manner. There is no civilian employer that requires you to completely forget everything you learned about how to live and accept a completely new way of life. So people coming out of the military essentially have to relearn everything about living in the civilian world again. Why do you think so many veterans struggle to find employment after the military, even if they did take a job that taught them valuable skills? It's because we get used to a certain way of doing things and that way is completely different from how civilian employers do things. It makes soldiers incompatible with the corporate culture, which makes employers reluctant to hire veterans.

So, veterans need a transition period where they can relearn how to function in the civilian world again. That's where the GI Bill comes in. Plus, the GI Bill can also be seen as a "thank you for your service" from the US government. And seeing as veterans like me gave Uncle Sam the best years of our lives, a free education is the least they can do for us.

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My father suffered from this problem. But it didn't ever go away. Even when he managed the building of golf courses 15 years after he retired, he was still pissing most everybody off by acting like he was still in the military.

They didn't even refer to him by his name. They called him "the Major".

I think the general premise is fair. I also think it makes a little more sense to make it a bit more generous than say, AmeriCorps, which is also fair (which gives people who do things like joint the Peace Corps or teach in inner city environments loan forgiveness).

Given the proliferation of predatory, for-profit institutions that are taking advantage of the bill to scam vets, I think we can probably agree that the execution could use some work.

There's a lot of kids from not so awesome home and economic situations for whom the military with its structure, sense of belonging, and increased chance of eventual access to higher education are not something they have to be tricked into. More universal access to higher education without the anchor of debt would better, but the GI bill is fair enough for the time being. I've seen the struggles of alternative education high school students attempting to get good enough grades to enlist. I've seen vets struggle to translate their service into employment in a country that does not always give a fark about what you did yesterday, only how much money you can earn for it today. Some form of large scale vocational retraining program is necessary.

downtown said:

Given the proliferation of predatory, for-profit institutions that are taking advantage of the bill to scam vets, I think we can probably agree that the execution could use some work.

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I think you can increasingly refer to those as State Universities. But it's not just vets.

JollyRoger said:

So long as our great grandchildren don't mind paying China back for funding it, I guess it's ok.

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WE GOT A LIVE ONE!

Formaldehyde said:

My father suffered from this problem. But it didn't ever go away. Even when he managed the building of golf courses 15 years after he retired, he was still pissing most everybody off by acting like he was still in the military.

They didn't even refer to him by his name. They called him "the Major".

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Yeah, it's something that never goes away completely. Whenever we go out shopping or something, I always let my wife deal with the cashier or any other employee because I tend to speak to them as I would speak to one of my soldiers. My intention is not to be rude, but the military way of speaking is very coarse and direct, which usually comes off as extremely rude to those who have never been in the military or grown up in a military family.