New Version - October 21st (10/21)

Hey all,

New version inbound.

• Fixed a few smaller bugs/quirks scattered around
• Completely rewrote AI operational and military AI organization and deployment logic
• This was a big one, but man, the AI will really throw a lot of its troops at you now.
• Fixed a few rare CTDs related to AI military operations and other things
• Worked a little more on diplo AI regarding city exchanges, vassalage, etc.
• Worked a bit more on warscore logic regarding the warscore valuation - should be more granular and flexible on all levels
• Added a bunch of DLL elements for JFD's Piety and Prestige
• Fixed LUA elements for Vicevirtuoso regarding techs/buildings and policy yields
• Pathfinding - Ice tiles in owned terrain now passable.

Added new early game building:
Herbalist

• +2 Food, +1 Food/Production from nearby Forests and Jungles
• Avaialble at Calendar, requires a nearby workable forest or jungle to build
• Should help with early forest/jungle yield issues for start biases in those areas

Balance

• Celts lose +5 Faith UA element, but Pictish Warrior buffed - now 25% defense and double movement in snow/hills/tundra, and 200% of CS of killed unit converted to faith
• Lost +15% in foreign lands element
• Nerfed Halicarnassus a bit (30 culture, 10% production)
• Hanging Gardens now provide a free Great Writer in addition to other bonuses
• Theming Bonus (+3 production) added to Royal Library (Assyria)
• Reduced tile yield from Arabian UA slightly
• Removed some aberrant promotion possibilies from Bombers
• CS Bonuses modified for Militaristic and Mercantile CSs
• Now give gold (mercantile) and science(militaristic), scaling with Era
• Siam UA CS Bonus reduced to 50%, but covers all 5 yields now (gold, faith, science, culture, food)
• Rationalism changes:
  
  Strategic Resource bonuses moved to Empiricism, now +4 science +2 production
  Free Thought now +3 science, +2 culture on villages, and -100% reduction on religious unhappiness
  Scientific Revolution now boosts Global Monopoly bonuses - +2 for flat yields, 10% for modifiers
  Bonus is additive, so +10% Global Monopoly bonus becomes +25%!​

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New version online as of 8:20pm EST.

G

oh boy!

Edit: also, thank you (and all those involved). I really appreciate your time and effort!

This looks excellent! I do want to reiterate that I think Venice has some problems (bugs?), though. I posted them in the Venice thread. Just wanted to mention it in a more visible place in case you didn't see them.

I'm so excited for the AI to crush me!

Edit: Wanted to add that the Authority opener still says culture from barb kills, not all kills.

A big thank you. And now I hope I can finally open Authority and have it pay off.

Yay, thanks for the update!

Fixed LUA elements for Vicevirtuoso regarding techs/buildings and policy yields
Pathfinding - Ice tiles in owned terrain now passable.
Theming Bonus (+3 production) added to Royal Library (Assyria)

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Great!

Re-uploaded the Community Patch by itself (along with the auto-installers), as there was a small compiler quirk. Anyways, it is savegame compatible, so have fun!

G

Gazebo said:

Re-uploaded the Community Patch by itself (along with the auto-installers), as there was a small compiler quirk. Anyways, it is savegame compatible, so have fun!

G

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And what exactly does that mean? Should I download it again? Is this important? I have a bandwidth limit, and a small one at that, so I'd really like to know.

Takagi Hiro said:

And what exactly does that mean? Should I download it again? Is this important? I have a bandwidth limit, and a small one at that, so I'd really like to know.

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I'd re-download just the community patch, install it, delete the LUA folder, clear your cache, and then you are good to go.

You probably won't encounter any problems with the original version, though. This is more of a 'I want this upload to be as perfect as I can' situation.

G

Gazebo said:

I'd re-download just the community patch, install it, delete the LUA folder, clear your cache, and then you are good to go.

You probably won't encounter any problems with the original version, though. This is more of a 'I want this upload to be as perfect as I can' situation.

G

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Good to know, thanks.

The herbalist is ludicrously good in its current state. I could tell just by looking at the numbers but I wanted to playtest it to be sure. +2 yields per tile is strong on a building, let alone early game, let alone the most critical 2 yields, let alone with an additional +2 food bonus from the building.

I didn't have any problem with forest/jungle starts before. If you want to buff them I suggest making the herbalist give +2gold instead of +1food+1hammer. Or even +1 gold.

Hanging Gardens now provide a free Great Writer in addition to other bonuses

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It's been a couple updates since I've had the chance to load up civ, so I may have missed other changes, but unless I've missed a buff to the Parthenon, this seems unnecessary. Hanging Gardens was already the best ancient policy wonder by far. This just further increases the gap between it in the Parthenon.

Gazebo said:

Herbalist
+2 Food, +1 Food/Production from nearby Forests and Jungles
Avaialble at Calendar, requires a nearby workable forest or jungle to build
Should help with early forest/jungle yield issues for start biases in those areas

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Honestly, I know I've been the one complaining the most about forests and jungles, but I'm not sure you needed to go that far
Did you also nerf base-yields on forests/jungles somewhere and I missed it?

Celts lose +5 Faith UA element, but Pictish Warrior buffed - now 25% defense and double movement in snow/hills/tundra, and 200% of CS of killed unit converted to faith
Lost +15% in foreign lands element

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All my suggestions in one, awesome. This should probably have been on the same row however, makes the list look weird.

Nerfed Halicarnassus a bit (30 culture, 10% production)
Hanging Gardens now provide a free Great Writer in addition to other bonuses

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Those two makes sense, Halicarnassus was a really powerful effect especially with all the extra GP flying around.
HG change is fine.

Theming Bonus (+3 production) added to Royal Library (Assyria)

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Sounds like fun. I still want to rework them, but I'm waiting til I have a better suggestion.

Reduced tile yield from Arabian UA slightly

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Care to provide a new list of numbers for the Arabian UA? The only place (I found) to find what it is actually supposed to look like is in the Arabia balance thread, and that's really not updated.

Removed some aberrant promotion possibilies from Bombers

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Thanks
Did you fix the American Minutemen going obsolete at the wrong tech? The one I actually reported in the right place

CS Bonuses modified for Militaristic and Mercantile CSs
Now give gold (mercantile) and science(militaristic), scaling with Era

Click to expand...

How big are these bonuses? Because at this point the faith-CS was already weaker than the militaristic one (imho).

Siam UA CS Bonus reduced to 50%, but covers all 5 yields now (gold, faith, science, culture, food)

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Not sure if this was necessary, but then again I haven't playtested him in a while.

Rationalism changes:
Strategic Resource bonuses moved to Empiricism, now +4 science +2 production

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Sounds fine.

Free Thought now +3 science, +2 culture on villages, and -100% reduction on religious unhappiness

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I would still like to see the villages actually worth building outside of rationalism at least in some places(since automated workers obsess with building them everywhere breaking farmingbonuses).

Scientific Revolution now boosts Global Monopoly bonuses - +2 for flat yields, 10% for modifiers
Bonus is additive, so +10% Global Monopoly bonus becomes +25%!

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Wait? Again, why are the absolute strongest monopoly-bonuses getting the biggest boosts?
10% production to 25% production is a 150% increase. +3 yield on tile to +5 yield on tile is a 66.67% increase. 25% GA to 35(40? your description/math is weird)% GA is a 40(60?)% increase (which in this case translates to 0 turns of extra golden age on standard and quick speed).

GamerKG said:

The herbalist is ludicrously good in its current state. I could tell just by looking at the numbers but I wanted to playtest it to be sure. +2 yields per tile is strong on a building, let alone early game, let alone the most critical 2 yields, let alone with an additional +2 food bonus from the building.

I didn't have any problem with forest/jungle starts before. If you want to buff them I suggest making the herbalist give +2gold instead of +1food+1hammer. Or even +1 gold.

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No more friggin gold/science whatnot useless yields on my forests/jungles please. I can agree that this change seems excessive, but honestly lumbermills were just not usable, they were obsolete before you got the tech to improve them because the only thing they had to look forward to was science and gold.

ecgopher said:

It's been a couple updates since I've had the chance to load up civ, so I may have missed other changes, but unless I've missed a buff to the Parthenon, this seems unnecessary. Hanging Gardens was already the best ancient policy wonder by far. This just further increases the gap between it in the Parthenon.

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Honestly, I've changed my mind about this recently. The HG is a LOT weaker than it was in BnW, and I really mean a LOT.

Funak said:

No more friggin gold/science whatnot useless yields on my forests/jungles please. I can agree that this change seems excessive, but honestly lumbermills were just not usable, they were obsolete before you got the tech to improve them because the only thing they had to look forward to was science and gold.


Honestly, I've changed my mind about this recently. The HG is a LOT weaker than it was in BnW, and I really mean a LOT.

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I really still think lumbermills are and were fine. And "useless" yields are a good way of making things different and incrementally balanced.

The HG is just ok. +6 food certainly isn't what it used to be! Though I do agree that the Parthenon is rather meh now that great works are floating around everywhere.

GamerKG said:

I really still think lumbermills are and were fine. And "useless" yields are a good way of making things different and incrementally balanced.

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The main problem is that some civs are dependent on working forests/jungle tiles for different reasons, and at that point the variety really ends up hurting those civs.
I think at the moment we are just trying to stop two leaks with one plug, but at least with the addition of that building forests/jungle vs rest can be properly discussion in a balance-thread somewhere.

The HG is just ok. +6 food certainly isn't what it used to be! Though I do agree that the Parthenon is rather meh now that great works are floating around everywhere.

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Honestly both of them should probably get some kind of rework, they are both really boring and static (but at least the Parthenon somewhat scales with era by having a percentual bonus)

Funak said:

The main problem is that some civs are dependent on working forests/jungle tiles for different reasons, and at that point the variety really ends up hurting those civs.
I think at the moment we are just trying to stop two leaks with one plug, but at least with the addition of that building forests/jungle vs rest can be properly discussion in a balance-thread somewhere.


Honestly both of them should probably get some kind of rework, they are both really boring and static (but at least the Parthenon somewhat scales with era by having a percentual bonus)

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Oh yes I think its great to have the building, its a nice way to give all civs who need to work forest/jungle a way to manage without making them inherently better. Unfortunately this building comes too soon/cheap and makes them WAY too good!

+6 food isn't boring since its so flexible, and now that it spawns a Great Writer (perhaps too early lol) its even more flexible. I don't find that boring at all!

GamerKG said:

Oh yes I think its great to have the building, its a nice way to give all civs who need to work forest/jungle a way to manage without making them inherently better. Unfortunately this building comes too soon/cheap and makes them WAY too good!

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I'm not going to disagree with this, I'm not going to agree with it either until I've actually tried it out, but I'm pretty sure the building is straight up too powerful. I mostly meant that now where we actually have a foundation to build upon, balance can actually be achieved through discussion.

+6 food isn't boring since its so flexible, and now that it spawns a Great Writer (perhaps too early lol) its even more flexible. I don't find that boring at all!

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Flexible, sure, but it is just nothing unique or wonderish(yes that's a word now) it's like an internal traderoute into the city, or two graneries(minus the tile-bonuses). The free great writer and garden is cool as well, but I still think reworking them both would be a more interesting solution, assuming one can find an interesting enough bonus for it.

Apothecary might be a better name than Herbalist.

In the game I started playing, the Herbalist wasn't that strong. I rolled a grassland/salt/iron start, so the only forest tiles I worked were a handful of deer tiles. The Herbalist was low priority.

Herbalist is awesome. Too good? I'm not sure. My Capitol has several grasslands forest tiles (2f 1h). Long before lumber Mills, and now they are silly good. I'm afraid how good they'll be once you toss on a mill, workshop, and university. Lord forbid you have a civ that cares about those tiles; I'm predicting it's going to be God tier stuff.