TSG 122 Opening actions thread

Welcome to the TSG122 Opening Actions thread.

STOP - Please do not continue reading this thread until you have completed at least 80 to 100 turns in your game.

This thread is used to discuss the game once you've started playing through your first 100 turns. Apart from normal decency, the only posting restrictions are to please not post videos until the deadline is finished and to use the spoiler tags for screenshots. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play. Please remember that we are running a family friendly site, so express anger or frustration with this in mind.

Please use this thread to discuss your goals for the game and your opening moves through the first 100 turns. Anything after that should be posted in the After Action thread once you have completed your game.

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
- Did you spend much time doing reconnaissance before settling?
- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
- What were your initial priorities?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose?
- How did not using Tradition affect your game plans
- What Wonders did you try to get and did you get them?
- Did you go for early Faith? How did you use faith?
- Any surprises?

I rarely see this many barbarians in a single map. Played 90 turns and gave up, they may be like ants but Christ they're annoying

Moderator Action: Moved to Opening Actions thread.

stormtrooper412 said:

I rarely see this many barbarians in a single map. Played 90 turns and gave up, they may be like ants but Christ they're annoying

Click to expand...

you shouldn't have given up over the barbs but I understand the fustration. The start location is both great and terrible, 2 lake + mountain spots really close to each other but not much else nearby that is of notable value.

Moderator Action: Also moved to Opening Actions thread.

Rough start for me, the barbs have been a royal pain, at least it's Prince and scouts can tank the hits pretty well.

I went Liberty and used the finisher to GE Petra in Alexandria. 6-city NC around T92, T120 Education with a small detour to Engineering. That's rather slow, but I hope to recover once observatories are up. Perhaps it's still possible to finish in the T220-230 range. The capital is really low pop though, so maybe not.

Didn't bother with an early shrine and went Scout-Monument-Scout x3 instead. I did get a faith ruin and chose Religious Idols. T75ish Religion, Tithe and food from shrines and temples, enhanced with Swords into Plowshares and +30% range. Faith per turn is pretty good thanks to temples in every city.

Despite having a LOT of scouts, I've yet to meet the last civ. I had to keep a couple of scouts at home to defend my tiles and workers, and 1 or 2 got cornered by barbs and died. I really should've invested some beakers into an early Optics here, this isn't the easiest map to explore. If I scouted better I'd have settle the Crabs/Truffles spot instead of forward-settling Alex, but oh well. I think I'll settle my 7th city there anyway, it's a pretty nice spot.

Gold has been very low for the first 110 turns, couldn't buy any tiles so I had to work stuff like unimproved plains, yuck. Things are starting to look a bit better now, and should be much better once Machu Picchu is up.

Wonders so far: Great Library, Temple of Artemis, Pyramids, Borobudur. I'll probably build Angkor Wat soon, because border growth is so slow... Hopefully noone steals Oracle.

At turn 100 and just finished the National College. About to drop third and fourth cities, hopefully I can settle near the Barringer Crater. Chose Liberty, but also opened Honor to get the Barbarians off my back; culture from Barbarians has already made the policy pay for itself and more. I'm also going to try to get Commerce and Rationalism, then do Freedom for my Ideology.

I found Ruins with +20 faith and got my Pantheon, then grabbed Monument to the Gods for Wonderwhoring. So far I've built Great Library, Pyramids, and Temple of Artemis. Oracle's next.

Currently researching Engineering, and I plan on beelining to Physics to build Notre Dame so I can spam 3 or 4 new cities without falling into unhappiness.

I usually play on Emperor, so Prince difficulty is a cakewalk to me. It's nice.

T0-40
Liberty. I start with a monument. Expect free settler Turn 36. More will follow rapidly. Then will also be the time when workers might become available for stealing.
By that time i want to have some worker(s) to hook up luxes and an archer to help my warrior protecting the settlers and workers as well as possibly stealing workers or, who knows, killing camps for the favour of some interesting Cses. Theres lots of forests to be cleared and if all goes well, ill be expanding like a maniac between T36 and T60, so i think 2 workers is not a luxury even considering i will get a free one later and i might capture 1 or 2.
Ill also want a scout and shrine.
Ill need mining and trapping for these luxes. Animal husbandy to find horses. Archery to build archers. After all that comes the great lib – NC thingy as well as ToA. I want lib done before 70ish. ToA before 90ish. NC wherever it happens to fit.
Monument – scout – worker – worker – Archer – Archer – Settlers
Husbandry – Mining – Pottery – Archery – Trapping – Calendar –
I got 20 faith from a hut, so i didnt need to build the shrine and took religious idols.
As my archer escorts my settler to its spot in the NE, it spots a wellingtonian worker on T37. It is unfortunate that 3 Ais already met me and he is under protection of greece, but i DOW and i take it. They are prince AIs after all, what are they gonna do ? They dont DOW on me, i remain at war in case they built me another worker later.
Memphis is settled in the NE, pretty close on the same river. No new luxuries, but the spot looks sweet enough.

T40-80
I get another worker from wellington. While my capital is building TGL, i settle my 5th city on T64 with 3 workers standing ready to cut forests for its library. As my army i protecting those workers in the NE, barbs come pillaging my ivory and gold from the south and i lose a few turns of growth.
I get free philosophy from TGL on turn 73 and, thebes proceesds to build NC while my luxes are being reconnected and new ones are hooked up. Meanwhile i research for currency so that heliopolis gets to bulid petra. T80. Dido has completed ToA. I will have to take it from her later. For now its happiness limiting my growth anyway.

T80-100
Im actually losing science to my gold deficit. scrambling for happiness, my caravans are also being built way later than i had wanted to. I dont yet see opportunity for getting more than 5 cities. My capital is building stuff like mint and market instead of wonders. And all my cities are tiny and low on food. I think this game is screwed, but ill keep going.
Lots of stuff happens just before T100. On T96 i found my religion with Tithe and Devine inspiration. I open patronage. I complete Petra just as i finish my the the last of my caravans. 4 total now, 3 of them feeding thebes and 1 feeding poor alexandria in the hills. Most cities are building aquaducts. 3 out of 4 expansion cities are connected by road. On T100 wellington brings out another worker. I take it and make peace. Researching metal castig although i dont know how i will pay the upkeep of the workshops.

Heh vadalaz, how do you keep 6 towns before NC happy without even taking the truffles, crabs and furs ! (i asume you got some lux there at alex, but thats still 2 less than i got)
Do you simply accept negative happiness for a while between settling them and arranging the needed happiness ?

And what are you doing with a catapult ? Do they have their attack bonus vs barb camps too ?

Also quite amazed that you got all those wonders as well. My ToA was taken on T80. I notice that your AIs have barely any higher score on T125 than mine have on T100. Is there anything you did to keep them weaker ?

Anything about my game that you think i did wrong ? Do you go for collective rule or citizenship first ? Do you build any settlers at full cost before CR ?

Yes, you are the benchmark im playing against. Expect lots more questions to keep coming in the future

Well here's what I did before I abandoned, for what it's worth

What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?

Liberty + Piety + Jesuit Education

Did you spend much time doing reconnaissance before settling?

Where did you settle and what did you build first?

Settled in place, Scout, Scout, Monument, Worker, Settler, ToA, Free Settler, Settler, Granary, GL

How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?

Aimed for mountains and hills

What were your initial priorities?

Try to get an early religion to build by fpt up

What tech path did you follow and why?

Lux techs, then beeline to Currency because there was a nice Petra site around. Then Philosophy. NC was around 95, Education 122.

What Social Policies did you choose?

Liberty to settlers, then full Piety

How did not using Tradition affect your game plans

Liberty on this map is a better choice actually

What Wonders did you try to get and did you get them?

ToA, GL, missed Pyramids because I started late, Oracle, Petra, Chicken Pizza, Hagia, Borobodur for many missionaries, was in the process of building ND when I gave up

Did you go for early Faith? How did you use faith?

After free settler, I jumped into Piety. Faith output was pretty good later on, with almost 70 fpt

Any surprises?

Too many unattended barbs, I wasn't prepared for them

@WackenOpenAir: Well, 12 happiness was coming from Egypt's UB, so that certainly helped... I also had Copper from Darius and some CS allies.

Catapult was a gift from Valetta. I kept my units at that camp for a very long time to kill the barbs instantly, plus that meant no new barb camps would spawn in that area.

I built ToA in my capital and chopped out GL in an expo. ToA is the better wonder in my opinion, so I gave it higher priority. Didn't bully the AIs this time because they never had any gold.

I don't really see any mistakes in your game, I'd personally build more scouts early but workers are fine too.

vadalaz said:

@WackenOpenAir: Well, 12 happiness was coming from Egypt's UB, so that certainly helped... I also had Copper from Darius and some CS allies.

Catapult was a gift from Valetta. I kept my units at that camp for a very long time to kill the barbs instantly, plus that meant no new barb camps would spawn in that area.

I built ToA in my capital and chopped out GL in an expo. ToA is the better wonder in my opinion, so I gave it higher priority. Didn't bully the AIs this time because they never had any gold.

I don't really see any mistakes in your game, I'd personally build more scouts early but workers are fine too.

Click to expand...

You got allies so early O.o wow, thats interesting, maybe i should focus more on units to kill barbs and not kill the camp right away (i realized i made that mistake right after i killed it, i should have first let it spawn barbs and maybe get some more AIs target it)

You say if you let the camp live, new ones wont spawn in the area. Can you tell me more about those mechanics or direct me to where that is explained ? Like what range does an existing camp prevent new ones from spawning ? How fast will new camps spawn when old ones are killed ?

Yes, i agree ToA is a better wonder, but i thought the AI build it later on average and since i need the lib anyway for the NC... Seems i was wrong. Guess i get to use my UU to take carthage. Good thing its built right next door

I don't know the exact mechanics sorry. Feels like a 4-5 tile radius at least. Barb camps can't spawn in the areas where you or the AIs/CSs have sight, so if there's a large neutral territory like on this map and I don't have Honor, I usually just assign an archer or two per closest camp and put them on Alert. Easier to manage them this way than look for new camps all the time.

I opened Honor, then full Liberty, then opened Patronage (to unlock Forbidden Palace) and Commerce (Big Ben). I built all the ancient wonders except Pyramids; I started that one late and got beat. ToA first because it's the most important, then GL. I thought Stonehenge would be gone by then but it wasn't so I built it next, then MoH. Zeus was just to fill a hole in my build queue. I built Petra in Memphis, and Colossus in Heliopolis (could've built GLH too, but I already had a regular lighthouse), so I have trade routes out the wazoo. I'm using them to send trade routes from Thebes (which has a Grand Temple). I have a knight running around killing barbs to protect my caravans -- that's a full-time job -- but they still manage to pillage them sometimes.

Things are going pretty well, but a couple of the AI's are almost keeping up with me in science. They must be bulbing GS's where I'm saving most of mine. I should zoom ahead somewhere around Plastics. What's surprising is that my religion has spread to cities I haven't even met yet. Idols, Tithe, Divine Inspiration, Feed the World, and Religious Texts.

I built one war chariot and used him to chase down and kill barbs to the northeast where the terrain wasn't so rough; when he was on the verge of getting a promotion I brought him home for a city garrison until he could upgrade to a knight because I didn't want to waste a promotion. Promotion saving is not enabled, is it?

Ashurbanipal declared war on me! The main problem with this is that it will prevent a furs hook-up that I was counting on. I'll have to build a few War Chariots too. Too bad.



I went for a 5-city initial build, now I'm regretting not going for 6 or 7. Added Great Lib and Artemis. Education will be a little before t120 with the necessary Engineering detour. Food is a problem.

Initial expand, t51:

I went Liberty for settlers and workers and then went Piety for Jesuit Education, I'm planning to finish Liberty, but will probably wait until I at least get a couple things in Rationalism.

My start feels slow, I did three cities and then NC, near turn 80. I wanted to do more cities, but I didn't have enough troops to protect settlers and workers if I pushed out any faster than that, so i made wonders instead. ToA, GL, Stonehenge, Pyramids, Oracle, Petra.

After the NC and my religion kicking in, (took Idols, Tithe, Pagodas, Swords into Plowshares, and 30% faster) I no longer had any happiness issues and I built a couple troops and started expanding faster.

I'm amused I completely forgot about a key piece of going Liberty until I read this thread. I have to make my own Aqueducts. I totally spaced on this, and forgot to even research the tech. Which might be why my cities still feel so small.

Capital on starting spot, 4 scout opening with early shrine, but lost 1 scout to barbs. Early CS quest for military CS provided units for my defense. Stole 1 worker off closest CS, stole 1 worker off Assyria, and forward settled him. He doesn't like me ever since and wont trade his lux but I might invade him whenever I need his lux for wltkd.

I went for 7 cities before NC, to cover all the lux my scouts found (except one claimed by Assyria). Used Liberty finisher GE for Petra on my desert expo. Capital built ToA, 1st expo built GL with worker chops. Capital also built Pyramids due to lack of workers. Also planning on Borobudur to help spread religion and Oracle when it is time for Renaissance.

Pantheon was the obvious religions idols, Religion had Tithe, Pagoda and Swords into Plowshare, enhanced with 30% distance so my cities would get converted rather quickly due to many cities.
UB with happiness is insane for city spamming.

My NC was extremely late, on turn 117, but I hope it would catch up after Education with engineering detour. Late game bulbs should be insane with all my cities having mountains. Planted 8th city after NC. Not sure if more is any better at this point.

Pagoda combined with early culture CS ally got me too much culture, and I might have at least 2-3 intermediate SP prior to renaissance. Probably taking patronage opener and commerce for more gpt, which is a problem on this map at the beginning, until my roads get completed and markets/mints. AI are too poor to buy my gold, and I'm forced to trade lux for lux instead of selling.

- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
More focus on finding food, and more units to spot for barb camps. I never take honor opener as it's never gonna pay for extra SP due to how the cost for SP goes up.

- What tech path did you follow and why?
Pottery, Lux tech, Writing, GL slingshot Philosophy, Currency, Theology, Engineering, Education

- How did not using Tradition affect your game plans
Left side liberty start, spam settlers for 7-8 cities. Taking GE for either Petra or NC.

This is great, I've currently got my opening as of turn 124, so I can compare directly with vadalaz. The comparison is... not good =)

I've only got 4 cities, and their total population is the same as his first 2. I skipped on several of the spots that he used because there wasn't another luxury, or no fresh water. What I am seeing is that getting the additional cities up with something good (enough to support 4 science specialists minimum) is more important than perfect spots. You can also see I've got 24 happiness, which just begs to have a couple more sities put down.

Alas, I forward settled Assyria in order to grab some furs, and he just attacked me this turn. So I'll recover from that and drop some cities in the spots I had once passed over and try to work things from there.

Interesting map because it is quite difficult to scout. I ran a practice game and with no water there are always barbarians around. I went liberty and opened honor as well as commerce so far, but just got Education. I was saving the liberty finisher for later, but I'm seeing the GE used for Petra as an interesting approach.

Thanks for all the commentary here; it is very interesting having to avoid tradition and see where things go!

Has anyone seen Hanoi in their game? I just ran into a Hanoi Settler, with damage, next to a mountain. Are these custom maps created by hand? In other words, did the mapmaker drop the city-state on a mountain tile, and since that doesn't work, popped the settler next to it with damage taken?

Weird, if nothing else. I tried to pull a screen shot, but the image is all black.

kayelbe said:

Has anyone seen Hanoi in their game? I just ran into a Hanoi Settler, with damage, next to a mountain. Are these custom maps created by hand? In other words, did the mapmaker drop the city-state on a mountain tile, and since that doesn't work, popped the settler next to it with damage taken?

Weird, if nothing else. I tried to pull a screen shot, but the image is all black.

Click to expand...

I saw that too. I don't remember if they ever founded a city or not.

I tried to chase him but he went straight into the mountain and disappeared...

kayelbe said:

Has anyone seen Hanoi in their game? I just ran into a Hanoi Settler, with damage, next to a mountain. Are these custom maps created by hand? In other words, did the mapmaker drop the city-state on a mountain tile, and since that doesn't work, popped the settler next to it with damage taken?

Weird, if nothing else. I tried to pull a screen shot, but the image is all black.

Click to expand...

This map was rolled. I suspect there were 2 city states that didn't get settled. When i finished exploring i noticed that it was short 2 CS. I thought i had 16, only found 14. I never saw them, i assume they were barbed then rescued and planted by the AI

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