New Beta Version - March 15th (3/15)

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Gazebo

Gazebo

Lord of the Community Patch
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Hey all,

New beta version out. Small changes since yesterday's, mainly just a few bug fixes and a little balance. Want to make sure these changes are solid before pushing the next release.


https://mega.nz/#F!2c8UUDQK!44DLtvHQRZcwyPFqcMBe8g

CP is savegame compatible - changing CBP mid-game may not update changes (best to wait until a new game for the CBP itself).

Changelist:

Balance:
  • Base faith need for first pantheon 50
  • Stonehenge now grants 50 faith, and has +1 culture
  • Adjusted policy costs on some early game wonders
  • Steam Mill now 1p per 2 citizens (Was 1p per 3)
  • Fixed paper maker reducing poverty, not illiteracy.

Bugfixes:
  • Fixed some issues with some texts
  • Fixed a crash in the ai operation code
  • Fixed a few more bugs in instant yields
  • Worked on peace-out AI logic a bit
  • Worked on process production AI logic a bit, and fixed a zeroing bug
  • Added EUI 1.28f to installer (Fixed compiler bug)
Click to expand...

Online as of 12:50am EST.

G
 
I've noticed that liberated city states don't ever build workers to repair their tiles.
 
Played with the new beta today and I must say that I'm not really convinced about the new science system yet. I guess it'll grow on me with time (only just made it to the classical age), but I'm not that fund of it right now.

First of all the instant yields from techs, buildings border expansion and city growth seem kind of "gamey" to me - like an excuse for adding extra yields to compensate for the yields that was taken away. I know there's a balance between gaming and realism to consider, but my first impression is that we've crossed the line here. Yields per pop seems a lot more realistic.

On a side notice, how's the math here? The yields seem rather high but I'm unsure how they compare with the yields per pop.

I also think the tech pace at the start of the game is too slow right now - I'm literally running out of things to produce (of course this indicates that the before mentioned yields are not that high).

\Skodkim
 
skodkim said:
Played with the new beta today and I must say that I'm not really convinced about the new science system yet. I guess it'll grow on me with time (only just made it to the classical age), but I'm not that fund of it right now.

First of all the instant yields from techs, buildings border expansion and city growth seem kind of "gamey" to me - like an excuse for adding extra yields to compensate for the yields that was taken away. I know there's a balance between gaming and realism to consider, but my first impression is that we've crossed the line here. Yields per pop seems a lot more realistic.

On a side notice, how's the math here? The yields seem rather high but I'm unsure how they compare with the yields per pop.

I also think the tech pace at the start of the game is too slow right now - I'm literally running out of things to produce (of course this indicates that the before mentioned yields are not that high).

\Skodkim
Click to expand...

There aren't very many instant yield building science sources in the early game - less than you mentioned. Most science comes from policies, the council, the barracks line, and the library line.

Decoupling science from raw population needed to happen. It was inevitable.
 
There are a lot of instant yield popups when going authority. Clutters the screen and is confusing since it's the same icon as population growth.
 
attorneyatlol said:
There are a lot of instant yield popups when going authority. Clutters the screen and is confusing since it's the same icon as population growth.
Click to expand...

No notifications = people complain about things being obscure. Add notifications, people complain about clutter. Pretty much what I expected. :)

G
 
As I proposed on another thread, couldn't the bonus yield popups stack like CS quests or Spy notification?

Also, just a question, would it be possible to add them to the history window listing what happened? ( Sorry not sure about the name, the scroll icon under chat)
 
Gazebo said:
No notifications = people complain about things being obscure. Add notifications, people complain about clutter. Pretty much what I expected. :)
Click to expand...

Maybe make them stack up? It is pretty annoying having 15 extra popups.
Also if at all possible, the "You've gained yields because you grew a pop"-popups could really replace the "You've gained a pop" feels kinda overwhelming having both of them.
 
Wayl said:
As I proposed on another thread, couldn't the bonus yield popups stack like CS quests or Spy notification?

Also, just a question, would it be possible to add them to the history window listing what happened? ( Sorry not sure about the name, the scroll icon under chat)
Click to expand...

No, that is populated by notifications that appear on the side.

Maybe make them stack up? It is pretty annoying having 15 extra popups.

Also if at all possible, the "You've gained yields because you grew a pop"-popups could really replace the "You've gained a pop" feels kinda overwhelming having both of them.
Click to expand...

They're as condensed as they can be. Also, lots of people complain about stacking icons being obscure as well, so not any better.

Those two things aren't the same, and are handled differently. One scales, one doesn't, and the values can't be de-combined in the DLL and then recombined for a notification, because that's not how the notification system works.

G
 
Gazebo said:
No notifications = people complain about things being obscure. Add notifications, people complain about clutter. Pretty much what I expected. :)

G
Click to expand...

Yeah, but those peoples were probably expecting you to use magic :) and have exactly one pop-up each turn that sum up every instant yields of the turn (and giving every details). :)
That's unfortunate the notification system can't allow you to do that.
 
Gazebo said:
No notifications = people complain about things being obscure. Add notifications, people complain about clutter. Pretty much what I expected. :)

G
Click to expand...

Can we at least get a different icon for instant yield notifications so it isn't the same as population growth? When a city grows I want to assign the new citizen, but I don't need to do anything in response to instant yields.
 
Moi Magnus said:
Yeah, but those peoples were probably expecting you to use magic :) and have exactly one pop-up each turn that sum up every instant yields of the turn (and giving every details). :)
That's unfortunate the notification system can't allow you to do that.
Click to expand...

There's a max-bound on the text that can fit in a notification window, so even if I could do that, I wouldn't, as that max data would easily be reached each turn (thus providing 1/4 of the data itself).

As I said, I'm not surprised that people are complaining about the clutter, but I prefer that complaint to ones about a lack of information (as the former is a nuisance, but the latter affects gameplay transparency).

G
 
Great changes once again, liking the Stonehenge +1 Culture. I'm still not going to be building this one (no way I'll take a badly scaling wonder when each wonder increases further wonder costs by a lot) but at least the AI who gets it will be more rewarded.

I don't find the clutter very disturbing (until you get like 8-10 cities and good growth, at that point it is no longer so good), but it'd be cool if the Pop born yield icon was of a different colour than green, perhaps yellow.

Still liking the new science system but perhaps Barracks should be +1Science+1Production instead of +2Science and that missing +1Science should go to Monument to further decrease the need for teching Science buildings?

Anyway, I still think God of the Sun (+1Faith+1Culture per Wheat, +2Food per Granary) needs a buff, as it stands there's no reason to ever get this one even if you start surrounded by wheat. It should get an additional +1F+1C per Granary I think, or something for each 2 Farms worked, or dunno.
 
Funak said:
Maybe make them stack up? It is pretty annoying having 15 extra popups.
Also if at all possible, the "You've gained yields because you grew a pop"-popups could really replace the "You've gained a pop" feels kinda overwhelming having both of them.
Click to expand...

I've stacked up the tile and growth ones by opening NotificationPanel.lua and adding a "B" to NOTIFICATION_CITY_GROWTH and NOTIFICATION_CITY_TILE.

The city tile growth should be condensed by default in the EUI version, IMO. There's no worthwhile info there, and adds a lot of clutter. I agree that the growth one is a bit of a mix, less clutter but harder to see the info. Though by mid game you already know where most of them are coming from.

The one telling "Your city is now X pop!" one could go away, or at least, an option to remove it.

BTW, Gazebo, what is the "yield conversion" one? It's one I don't know exactly where it's coming from...

Thanks for your hard work, the game is extremely awesome now thanks to you!
 
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