UHV changes for 1.4

In this thread I would like to collect all of the latest UHV improvement suggestions.
Can be a minor improvement over the current UHV, or even a totally revised one.
We can discuss/optimize everything here.
Some of the better ones will be added for 1.4.

For example I'm thinking about removing Tripolitania from the Moroccan 1st UHV, and adding Crimea to the Venetian 2nd UHV (Latin Empire)
Both are with a ? in my list, so I have no strong opinion about either

The Scottish 2nd UHV (attitude points with France) should be improved somehow, let's move the discussion about it here as well.

Probably a good place to repost this:

DC123456789 said:

Would it make more sense for Norway's 2nd UHV goal to involve conquering Scotland rather than Mercia?

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What is the design behind the UHVs?

I remember reading that normal RFC had two that the nation achieved historically and one that they never managed, is that the case for RFCEurope?

Combine the 1st and 3rd UHV of Arabia. There are so many things regarding Arabia/Islam we can represent by UHV and we only have spreading and conquering. I currently can't think of a good one for the opening slot.

I think the Novgorod UHVs should be tweaked a bit;

The first one is good, requires you to extend a bit and fight Prussia when they spawn.

The second and third ones are too similar. To control 12 fur resources you need 4-5 cities in the hinterlands regions required by the third one anyway, so all it becomes is drop a couple more cities just before the UHV date. I would suggest merging them, add a bit more fur in that area (spread out) and require like 15 fur or something.

For the third UHV; Destroy or Vassalise Muscovy and burn Moscow by 1478. It is the date when Muscovy burnt Novgorod and took all their lands so it would be a cool reversal.

The Low King said:

What is the design behind the UHVs?

I remember reading that normal RFC had two that the nation achieved historically and one that they never managed, is that the case for RFCEurope?

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Yes, it's the same here. 2 historic and 1 ahistoric.
Although there may be some exceptions. I don't mind it in some special cases.

what about france? you we split them into franks and french? will be the franks a common root to france, burgundy and germany? btw i was looking for some old maps and i saw burgundy on an AD500 map!, it would be cool if they could start at 500AD too.

Hungary's uhv need to be changed. Defender of europe must be a lot harder. Edict of torda is luck based. rush for the wonder or play 3-4 hours more. and Black Army is pointless, atm you complete it by default. I will think about new uhvs asap.

The (original) Burgundians were conquered by the Franks in 534, so just an independent Lyon is really sufficient to represent them.

I think the first two Arabian UHVs can be reworked:
UHV 1: Conquer Egypt and the Levant in 955. I don't know what Levant covers for the game (Antioch to Arabia)?
I would add Cyrenaica, Tripolitania, and Ifriqiya to UHV 1 because the Arabs did conquer those places within one hundred years of their start date. I'd also like to move the goal earlier too. 698 when the area around Tunis was captured is too early, so 750 is probably a more appropriate goal.
UHV 2: Conquer Egypt, the Levant, and Northern Africa in 1291. I like this one currently, but the Ziyanid Revolt can make this tricky and the date is very late. Maybe make the goal much earlier? I'd also replace the word "Conquer" with "Control."

My ideas on the UHV for the Novgorod Republic:

1. Trade Republic:
   • Control X Resources of Amber, Timber, Furs, Honey, Hemp(as Fiber)*, Flax* in any combination at Y date(alternative: Accumulate X gold for sale Resources at Y date**
   • Found the Hanseatic League (alternative: Contol city with Hanseatic League)
2. Northern Crusades:
   • Never lose cities to Swedish, Prussians and Mongols
   • Contol province of Novgorod, Karelia, Vologda, Livonia, Estonia, Sterland, Rostov
   • Razed 1 city in Sweden
3. Rise and Fall of the republic:
   • Build Orthodox Cathedral in Novgorod before 1050AD(alternative: build 1 or 2 Orthodox Wonders)
   • Conform a defense pact with Poland and/or Lithuania in 1470AD

*need to add new resources
**like one of Axum's UHV from RFCCW

SanJose said:

My ideas on the UHV for the Novgorod Republic:

1. Trade Republic:
   • Control X Resources of Amber, Timber, Furs, Honey, Hemp(as Fiber)*, Flax* in any combination at Y date(alternative: Accumulate X gold for sale Resources at Y date**
   • Found the Hanseatic League (alternative: Contol city with Hanseatic League)
2. Northern Crusades:
   • Never lose cities to Swedish, Prussians and Mongols
   • Contol province of Novgorod, Karelia, Vologda, Livonia, Estonia, Sterland, Rostov
   • Razed 1 city in Sweden
3. Rise and Fall of the republic:
   • Build Orthodox Cathedral in Novgorod before 1050AD(alternative: build 1 or 2 Orthodox Wonders)
   • Conform a defense pact with Poland and/or Lithuania in 1470AD

*need to add new resources
**like one of Axum's UHV from RFCCW

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Control various recources sounds good
In 1.4 you cant found corporations, insted, hace 3 city with HL.
Not losing city is not an aim yoz work for thus i dislike it.
Conquer/settler goals are avarage, better than nothing.
Raze city is always a bit luckbuster, but doable and fun.
With their current production even 1200 is too early for a cathedral, plus its tide you for one city spot. Rather in your capital.

Sign def pack is too easy.

But in general good ideas...

gilgames said:

Control various recources sounds good
In 1.4 you cant found corporations, insted, hace 3 city with HL.
Not losing city is not an aim yoz work for thus i dislike it.
Conquer/settler goals are avarage, better than nothing.
Raze city is always a bit luckbuster, but doable and fun.
With their current production even 1200 is too early for a cathedral, plus its tide you for one city spot. Rather in your capital.
Sign def pack is too easy.
But in general good ideas...

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I forgot about the mechanics of corporations change
No losing city and Def.pack - part of unhistorical UHV(but the attempt of the Novgorod nobility go under the patronage of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania hastened finally annexed the lands of the republic to the Moscow State)
About cathedral: I know it is very difficult, but it part of Novgorod's history

Minor suggestion - played Venezian UHV - found it very amusing, would it be possible to ad "Klein Venedig" location in nothern part of S.America as a colony option?

For the Novgorod UHV ideas:

1) I think it should just be fur. Whilst it is reasonable to include lots of different resources, I don't think it adds much of a requirement and it is much more difficult to balance. It makes the requirements a bit needlessly complicated. Simply requiring X fur would for the most part require the same cities as the other resources.

Something linked to the Hansa might be good though. Probably "also have the Hanseatic league in Novgorod" since Novgorod marked the eastern edge of the Hansa.

2) Too many addition conditions I think. Don't lose a city, raze something in Sweden, hold that large area....its a bit much. I think the current UHV is fairly good, control Novgorod, Karelia, Vologda, Livonia, Estonia and Osterland at Y date. (a bit after the Swedish and Prussian spawns). Requires expansion and fighting Sweden and the Teutonic Order, which is very historical, but driving them back.

3) The Cathedral is historical but is already represented by a wonder than Novgorod can build (and defence pact is just weird). I would have "gain X faith points by Y date", Novgorod was famous for its religious art and the power of the archbishops.

Alternatively, a UHV to Raze/vassalise Muscovy and Sweden by 1478 would be very historical.

I want to point out, that for all these new uhvs, we need to enchance their land and push their production. Even if novgorod can built a cathedral, the other cities cant built churches in time.
ps: those ideas were separate uhv ideas not all-in-one.

Here is my first idea for a Hungarian UHV:

Equestrian nation: Control or have x horse resource by y. i guess 7 or 8 is okay and doable by 1200. Sure its needs to be tested.

The Low King said:

For the Novgorod UHV ideas:
and defence pact is just weird

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In 1471 Marfa and her sons, Dmitrii and Fedor, as the last representatives of the anti-Muscovite Boretsky family, attempted to negotiate with Casimir IV Jagiellon the terms of the city's handover to the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, provided that the city's ancient privileges and rights will be retained(c)
Since vassal of AI is not available for the Human player, I propose to replace it with the Def.Pack

The Low King said:

Alternatively, a UHV to Raze/vassalise Muscovy and Sweden by 1478 would be very historical.

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What? You know very well the history of Russia?

For Muscovites 3 UVH:

• replace capital on Baltic sea coast
• control in 1790AD most powerfull fleet

it unhistorical, top3 only (after England and France); more interesting and difficult

SanJose said:

In 1471 Marfa and her sons, Dmitrii and Fedor, as the last representatives of the anti-Muscovite Boretsky family, attempted to negotiate with Casimir IV Jagiellon the terms of the city's handover to the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, provided that the city's ancient privileges and rights will be retained(c)
Since vassal of AI is not available for the Human player, I propose to replace it with the Def.Pack

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The popular legend is that they signed a treaty, though there is not much historical documentation. Regardless, the treaty was only signed in the last years of the Republic, after they had already been defeated and were effectively already a vassal of Muscovy. The treaty was a last attempt to survive.

Having a UHV based around losing the game doesn't work.

SanJose said:

What? You know very well the history of Russia?

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1478 was the date when Novgorod was utterly defeated, their City burnt, the population massacred and lands all seized by Muscovy. It would be a very appropriate historical reversal for Novgorod to instead do the same to Muscovy.

I suggested the addition of Sweden because other than Muscovy they were the primary enemy of Novgorod, fighting over 20 wars against each other.

Thus, a UHV to Vassalise or conquer Muscovy and Sweden and Raze Muscovy would be an excellent historical reversal and mark of a successful Novgorod.