NC CLXXVI Hannibal

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The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Hannibal of Carthage, whom we last played in NC CXXVI. The Carthaginians start with Fishing and Mining.
  • Traits: Hannibal is Charismatic and Financial. CHA gives +1:) and another +1 for monuments and broadcast towers, which can mean larger cities sooner. It is also a warmongering trait, since promotions take fewer XP. FIN gives +1:commerce: on every tile with 2 or more :commerce:, thus helping build a strong economy that can support expansion or research.
  • The UB: The Cothon, a Harbour that costs an extra 25%:hammers: (100 versus 80 on Normal speed) but gives +1 trade routes. Great for a Trade Route Economy (TRE), especially with the Great Lighthouse and perhaps the Colossus (although as it's obsolete with Astronomy it's window may be very small depending on the map).

  • The UU: The Numidian Cavalry, a Horse Archer with +50% versus melee units; unfortunately its base strength is 5 instead of 6.
And the start:
Spoiler map details :
Continents, Medium sea level, Rocky climate. A basic map type that's fitting for a rookie map maker.
Spoiler edits :
Moved UU resources to ensure everyone had reasonable access to them. Shifted some food, strategic and commerce/luxury resources around to ensure everyone has roughly similar amounts at the start. Moved a grass/hill tile that was completely surrounded by mountains.
Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:
  • 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
  • 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
  • 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
  • 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other continent if applicable, etc)
  • 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
  • End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)
This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, elitetroops and NobleZarkon for keeping the series going, and all of you for playing.
Click to expand...
The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 176 Hannibal Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Noble, and for Prince; the difficulty will default to Noble when you use this file, so be sure to select the level you want to play at when the screen comes up. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

  1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
  2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
  3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
  4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
  5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
  6. Exit the worldbuilder.
  7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
Spoiler huts and events :
Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
 

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Hello folks, and welcome to the next Nobles' Club installment.

This is my first effort at making a map, and I want to make many more of them in the future. It's my small way of saying thank you to everyone here who has given invaluable advice and suggestions on how to improve my game. I hope you enjoy it!

Since it is a first effort, I'm sure there's plenty of room for improvement, and if you have any ideas or advice on how I can improve, please don't hesitate to let me know, and please be honest about any shortcomings you may see. Lord knows I've taken my share of criticism for things I've done in the past, so I can take it (as long as you stop short of threats of physical violence - gotta draw the line somewhere :)).

I'm going to be out of town this weekend to spend Easter with family, so I won't get to play much. But I will check into the forum whenever I can. Have a great Easter weekend!

NC CLXXVI Hannibal Hall of Fame​
​
 
That's quite a nice start, but with a tough decision. Moving east would give a lot more riverside tiles, and put capital on the river, which in the long term is good for the capital, but lose the gold, which is very bad short term. Also look like coast to the west. Warrior to gold to see if there are some crazy amounts of seafood. Or maybe even better warrior NW. If he spots something that makes me want to settle on the coast, I'd want to settle on that plains hill. Most likely SIP though. Keep some river and not lose the gold. The river to the east looks mostly brown, not that great after all.
 
Hi everyone, I'll try my first attempt at NC to see if I can improve my game enough to win Immortal. I loaded it with no huts or events.

For the starting spot, I agree with elitetroops, I will move the warrior to the NW to see if I'm not losing anything great there (especially sea food, since we have fishing as a starting tech). Otherwise I'll SIP.
 
i dont like to settle my Cap not on river, so i would probably move, even if i had to loose gold.
But again i c this weird thing :D, if one Sip, Capitol is on the river, notice this tile on which settler is standing...:commerce:. This meen levee ;)
 
Wow, you are right. Looks like SIP is connected to that river as well. Makes the SIP option a lot better.
 
I played 25 turns, until 3000 BC. I forgot to give archery to the Barbarians until now (doh!), I hope it's not too late.

This is what I did until now:

Spoiler :



The warrior did reveal fish, but it was far up north and I was doubtful about the land there. Also, I didn't like the idea of so many hills in my capital, so I decided to SIP anyway.

I couldn't explore much since my warrior was killed by a panther (even though I left him on a hill :cry:). It looks like the Ottomans and Ethiopia are really close to the South (notes show turn for their scouts). There's tundra to the north, which means we are northern. So I guess it's a good thing I didn't move my capital further North.

I picked possible locations for 2nd and 3rd city. I don't know about those clams on the SW, it looks like the land around them isn't good. I'm thinking a 4th city to the East, with the floodplains compensating the lack of food resources (does this work?). Also, it looks like we are more or less isolated from our southern neighbors by mountains.

Tech was Agri-Wheel, and now Pottery (early granaries seems ok since I have 1 luxury and happy monuments if needed) to get to Writing. Should I rush sailing for TGL? It dosn't look like I'll have so many coastal cities after all, especially if the southern neighbors are as close as it seems (and the northern coast is as cold as it seems).


I'll wait for input before going on, due to my inexperience on Immortal.
 

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@ Dcron

Personally I Love all those hills. I would have settled 1N of the gold. Those hammers give way to some crazy potentials, especially with modifiers like forge, gold, ivory, marble, stone, Org religion, CS, HE, etc etc. Not to mention you can make quick work of workers and settlers. TGLH would be a cakewalk.

I might opt for Obsoletes AI Wonder Denial strategy here.
 
@DrCron
Spoiler :
Great Lighthouse isn't that great on a standard continents map. The continents tend to be very compact with little to no surrounding islands. Usually not that much seafood either, so you probably want to settle most cities inland.

I would probably have went AH before pottery here. Gives you access to another 6 yield tile and a slight research boost on Pottery later. In addition, a NC game with a HA based UU should have horse somewhere nearby, which might affect your decision for where to put 2nd city.
 
@cseanny

Spoiler :

But that tundra tile (2 nw of sheep) suggests I'm close to the north pole, and having a central capital can help reducing maintenance in the early game, right?



@elitetroops

Spoiler :

Ah, I didn't think about the horses, but you are right, they should be there somewhere. I guess I'll get AH before writing then, to see them before settling city2. I'll still need to get 2 warriors before the 1st settler anyway, thanks to that annoying panther.
 
Excellent observation yyeah. Didn't think SIP would be riverside, but that tile is indeed 1 :commerce:. Makes SIP an easy decision, unless warrior NW reveals a lot of juicy stuff. I'd probably still just SIP though. It's usually not a bad decision. Since the rivers both north and east look fairly brown, they're not as desirable destinations as normally.
 
Deity... moved starting warrior 1NW, and this is actually a fairly difficult settling decision for me.
Spoiler :

There's fish 3N1W of the gold and the PH 2NW of the settler to settle on. Generally i really dislike coastal starts, but you could get 5HPT here for a 6T WB to net the fish and with FIN they would give 3 commerce. Also, lots of production potential up there.

5 river tiles and wet corn is solid though, and there's also the chance that the river would allow for a 2nd city to be connected without roads. Also, i always hesitate to move further towards the coast on deity because that just makes it easier for the AI to box you in.

SIP and 2nd city to grab fish or move to coast now for a potentially faster start?

I definitely wouldn't move away from the gold though. Early benefits are worth so much more than later benefits in this game. It would be very difficult to justify forgoing an 8C tile that can be online very early.

 
In my own game (IMM, Mara-speed, no-tech trading, no-barbs: just my options for last few months :D nevermind for this, I just forgot barbs timing) Fish+gold+cow+corn+2 more green hills made really strong size 6 capital. 2nd city to south (Pig+gold, later clam), 3rd to east to take horses. But too used to huge/17 AI maps where you have 0 chance ever to get Hindu or Budism or even Judaism if don't have 2x gold/gems.
 
@ DrCron and Elite
Spoiler :
With a potential Capital so :hammers: heavy you don't need to worry about being boxed in (war if you must). And Imo there's no need to settle further inland if you're giving up such a sweet Capital. And since this is Continents having a power house Coastal HE is a plus in my book.

I opted to open Agr, Ah, Bw, Mys, Whl. Worker, Wb, warriors to size 4 and 1st Settler. Improved Corn, gold, cow (6 or 7t settler). I'm going to Wonder spam lol ^. I'm actually planning for Stonehenge, TGW, Oracle, Mids, Hanging.....Basically I'm planning on making pretty much all of them (settle them all) w/ the exception of Sistine Chapel. I'll chop Mussoleum and Parth somewhere else though.

Should be able to get a nice HE/NE Capital with 37-45 base :hammers: w/ 1T anything (units) up to 250+ :hammers: and 450-500 :science: by 700-800 AD.
 
Up to 1120 BC. Looks like there's only one way to go from here:

Spoiler :

This is my empire at the time:



And our neighbors, close as expected:


I liked that spot between the pigs and the gold (1 NW of Lalibela) but didn't get there on time. This was probably a mistake, I think it should have been my 2nd or at least 3rd city. Now I have no food for my 4th city. The spot I put in my 1st screenshot could farm the floodplain and some of those river grassland and I guess that would be enough to work some mines and get decent production.

At that point I think the only way is an HA rush (neighbors too close) with Hannibal's UU. Tech situation is good (thanks to financial trait), I was 1st to Alpha and traded writing for hunting and mysticism from Ethiophia. Next turn I'll trade writing to Suleiman too, for archery and hopefully something else. Suleiman is doing better, so I guess he should be my first victim. They have different religions which will help with the diplomatic situation after the war starts. I don't think I'll build more settlers now.

I'm attaching the save file in case anyone wants to see more.
 

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This is my first NC game - trying to see if I can start to consistently beat Noble. A big ask since I've still been losing on Warlord since I restarted playing CIV. Loaded with huts but no events. Lets see how it goes!
 
So all of a sudden I'm at 1000BC (really, I've been playing a whole hour already?) and comparing screenshots it's very apparent I'm playing at a lower level.
Spoiler :


 

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@DrCron:
Spoiler :
How come only 3 cities? A bit slow in my opinion, try to expand faster.

Have you seen a single AI metal unit yet? If not, Numibians are the worst possible units to attack with. Vs anything but metal units, they are weaker than normal Horse Archers.


@VJ
Spoiler :
Cannot open your save and can't see much from picture as you use the bare map, but 3 cities at 1000 BC is very few. Try to get those settlers out sooner. Usually you start with worker, then warriors until pop3 or pop 4, then settler. Then another settler very soon after that. You should have 3 cities up by 2000 BC, a couple more by 1000 BC. Also, explore better to find the good city spots nearby. Prioritise food when you pick early city sites. Your city 4 spot has no food, it would be a very slow city. SW you see clam and pig. Seems like a much better spot to me.

From the fog I can see that you haven't spawnbusted at all. Know that no barbs can spawn within 2 tiles distance from any other unit. Think of it as a 5x5 tile block centered on every unit which is barbfree area. Early on, send your warriors outside your borders to secure that no barbs spawn nearby. 2 warriors 5 tiles apart in the north and 2 more in the east would keep you pretty safe here.
 
I've really been enjoying reading the comments about opening strategies above - even without playing the map I've learned a few new things. :)

I managed to get Civ4 running on my ancient laptop - it's not very pretty and it's not exactly snappy, but it is playable and maybe I can get a few turns in on this map over the weekend after all.
 
elitetroops said:
@DrCron:
@VJ
Spoiler :
Cannot open your save and can't see much from picture as you use the bare map, but 3 cities at 1000 BC is very few. Try to get those settlers out sooner. Usually you start with workers, then warriors until pop3 or pop 4, then settler. Then another settler very soon after that. You should have 3 cities up by 2000 BC, a couple more by 1000 BC. Also, explore better to find the good city spots nearby. Prioritise food when you pick early city sites. Your city 4 spot has no food, it would be a very slow city. SW you see clam and pig. Seems like a much better spot to me.

From the fog I can see that you haven't spawnbusted at all. Know that no barbs can spawn within 2 tiles distance from any other unit. Think of it as a 5x5 tile block centered on every unit which is barbfree area. Early on, send your warriors outside your borders to secure that no barbs spawn nearby. 2 warriors 5 tiles apart in the north and 2 more in the east would keep you pretty safe here.
Click to expand...

I'm running BAT, so could that be the problem with opening my save?
But until then, here's a close-up
Spoiler :


Spoiler :
Otherwise, thanks for the tips - I never get early expansion quite right; too slow every time. That 'City 4' spot was placed very early on - I'm due a settler in two turns & you're obviously very correct about the placement SW by the pigs would be far better. As for Barbs, You don't really need to spawnbust at the lower difficulties I usually play at so I just forgot about it! Thanks for the reminder :)
 

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