Speculation : Entirely new VC and deeply reworked existing VC

cazaderonus · May 12, 2016

Firaxis played coy about the end-game tweaks they’re working on, but Beach did confirm there will be an entirely new victory condition, and one of the traditional victory conditions has been radically reworked to change the way you go about achieving it. “We’ve definitely looked at that and shaken it up.”

So, what are your ideas fellas ?

I would think that the reworked VC is the science one. Considering they decided to change stuff regarding technological development, it would make sense to also tweak how it brings you a victory. I guess diplomatic victory could also be reworked if they actually did a lot of work on diplomacy and AI behavior.

As for the brand new one... :confused:

Got to admit that nothing comes to mind. Maybe something tied to environment ? it's a hot topic in the past decade so might be a nice addition to the game. Especially if it would imply environmental challenges with industrialization.

stealth_nsk · May 12, 2016

Religious victory, probably.

IMHO, the game should have only 2 victory conditions - military and peaceful. Old-fashioned science victory was good as it required both science and industry lead (plus ability to defend yourself while building), covering most of the game mechanics. Possibility to win by mastering only small share of the game sucks, IMHO. But too many people ask for different victory conditions, so I'm minority here.

MIS · May 12, 2016

In CivBE you had to build a wonder and defend it for a number of turns. I think that bored players - you know you'll win in 20 turns no matter what you do - but I did once win a game by destroying the AI's wonder before the 20 turns was up.

anandus · May 12, 2016

stealth_nsk said:
Religious victory, probably.

IMHO, the game should have only 2 victory conditions - military and peaceful. Old-fashioned science victory was good as it required both science and industry lead (plus ability to defend yourself while building), covering most of the game mechanics. Possibility to win by mastering only small share of the game sucks, IMHO. But too many people ask for different victory conditions, so I'm minority here.

The problem is that a military and scientific victory are too overlapping (as you need industry/science to have a good army).

Personally I'm in favour of alternative VC's so there's more variation, not everyone running down the same path and reducing the "runaway civ" problem.

cazaderonus · May 12, 2016

anandus said:
The problem is that a military and scientific victory are too overlapping (as you need industry/science to have a good army).

Personally I'm in favour of alternative VC's so there's more variation, not everyone running down the same path and reducing the "runaway civ" problem.

Yeah, i hope they toned downed the slingshot feeling from CiV tech. And i have hope for that as through interviews one of the main thing that is coming out is that they wished to break the "one best way to play every game" feeling. Aka the good ol 4 city\early NC\ university rush \ science specialist spam \ rationalism \ oxford \ bulb \ win system.

I wouldnt mind seeing SV go away. but can they really kill winning through sending a spaceship out ? It's iconic to say the least.

As for the new one. i dont see how a religious victory could be meaningfully different from the culture one.

I would be willing to bet on some BE like VC requiring building some kind of great wonder. Especially with the new district system.

Psychotronics · May 12, 2016

You know, I wish they would revamp the "Time" victory condition or scrape it altogether. Right now, it's simply something that stays turned off.

Cerilis · May 12, 2016

So I was right about there being one more victory condition :O

Kouvb593kdnuewnd · May 12, 2016

Diplomacy could be the reworked victory condition as improved diplomacy seems to be a focus of this game.

JeszKar · May 12, 2016

My pick would be:

- Domination/Conquest - Take over the world
- Religious - Unit the world under one church.
- Ideological - Similar to the last one.
- Economic - Money and Monopoly on resources
- Conspiracy - Control the world underground.
- Diplomatic

ferenginar · May 12, 2016

I would be keen on a re-introduction of the corporations from Civ IV in some format, that could be worked in to a economic / stock exchange victory.

Diplomacy definitely needs work, diplomatic interactions from a short picklist that never includes what you actually want to say, need to go.

Teproc · May 12, 2016

Of all the current VCs, I'd say scientific is the least likely to be significantly reworked. It's very popular and utterly iconic.

Domination could change back to a % of territory like in CIV, but I kinda doubt it.

Cultural is pretty great in BNW but very specific, could see that changing.

But the most likely to change is Diplomatic I think. It's clearly the least interesting right now, and diplomacy is likely to be one of the things they worked the most on.

As for the entirely new VC, religious seems like the obvious one but economic is also possible, especially if diplomatic moves away from "have a bunch of gold to bribe CSes". There's also the possibility of invidual VCs, tied to the "primary mission" they've referred to : like Grece would need to control 75% of the world by 200BC or something. Seems like it would be basically impossible to balance though.

Psychotronics · May 12, 2016

Teproc said:
But the most likely to change is Diplomatic I think. It's clearly the least interesting right now, and diplomacy is likely to be one of the things they worked the most on.

To me, diplomatic is the condition I go for when I don't have the patience to get the one I actually wanted.

stealth_nsk · May 12, 2016

Synth said:
To me, diplomatic is the condition I go for when I don't have the patience to get the one I actually wanted.

I was happy with world congress in BtS as it allowed me to disable diplomatic victory without making part of the game pointless. Definitely needs reworking.

Spaceturtle · May 12, 2016

My guess is that they will rework diplomatic victory. I think scientific victory will be different enough already with the changes to the way researching works.

MIS · May 12, 2016

Scientific victory has been the same in every version of Civ:

Virtually complete the tech tree
Build spaceship parts
send to space

Don't see any change.

masda_gib · May 12, 2016

JeszKar said:
- Conspiracy - Control the world underground.

A espionage victory sounds interesting. I like it and with the widening of electronic surveillance in the real world that would be a nice fitting addition to the game.

I'm not sure how that would be integrated mechanicly or thematicly in the game. More of a domination victory in cyber-warfare or more like having a world-wide police state surveilance & hacking network.

Ryuu Falconwing · May 12, 2016

Science has always been the more boring victory for me, and in this day and age I have to wonder if the tradition of launching a colonist ship is even a relevant victory condition. You're not so much winning as you are telling everyone you're just gonna leave them behind to rot. I wonder if there's perhaps a different way to demonstrate technological superiority.

I really want religion to be a victory type. Keeping faith strong throughout the game should be challenging and rewarding. Successfully converting every other city on the planet and eliminating the other faiths sounds like a victory to me.

Kouvb593kdnuewnd · May 12, 2016

The science victory have been in since the first civilization game so I doubt they are going to change it in any major way.

cpm4001 · May 12, 2016

masda_gib said:
A espionage victory sounds interesting. I like it and with the widening of electronic surveillance in the real world that would be a nice fitting addition to the game.

Well, we do know that espionage will be in the base Civ VI game, so I suppose this is a possibility for the new victory condition (sounds very cool, I agree). I'd expect that the new VC will probably just be either an economic or a religious victory, though, while the heavily-tweaked one is probably either scientific or diplo (though no idea how the new research system might affect a science victory.)

Aristos · May 12, 2016

The reworked VC will be Diplo, they will borrow heavily from the Community Patch Project, which in many aspects is what Civ 5 should have been (and devs there showed that it can). Their diplo solution adds the important layer of proximity (think true spheres of influence) to City States relations via diplo units (and a diplo resource to build them). The AI can use them (too efficiently, mind you), and it works perfectly.

The new VC will most likely be a Religious VC.

Speculation : Entirely new VC and deeply reworked existing VC

Actual Dad.

Deity

Prince

Errorist

Actual Dad.

Tribune of the Plebs

Stormrider

Left Forever

Chieftain

Grand Nagus

King

Tribune of the Plebs

Deity

Chieftain

Prince

Warlord

Chieftain

Left Forever

Goggleman

Lightseeker

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