PolyCast Episode 255: "That Much More Enticing"

DanQ · May 21, 2016

Possibility and potential. The two-hundred-and-fifty-fifth episode of PolyCast, "That Much More Enticing", features regular co-hosts Daniel "DanQ" Quick, Stephanie "Makahlua", Philip "TheMeInTeam" Bellew and "MadDjinn" with returning guest co-host Ernie "DarkestOnion". It carries a runtime of 59m59s.

The summary of topics is as follows:

- 02m15s | News
Anticipation and trepidation collide awash much speculation following the official announcement that Civilization VI is in development and is but months away from release; the extended coverage addresses Wonders, Diplomacy (10m13s), Research (18m27s), Units (24m56s), Victory Conditions (33m25s), Multiplayer (34m16s), Screenshot Analysis (38m21s) and Price Points (46m56s).

- Intro/Outro | Miscellaneous
Scary, shiny and a moratorium for reality.

PolyCast is a bi-weekly audio production recording live every other Saturday throughout the year, in an ongoing effort to give the Civilization community an interactive voice; sibling show ModCast focuses on Civ modding, TurnCast on Civ multiplay.

dexters · May 21, 2016

Great episode. Loved the discussion on support units.

Westwall · May 21, 2016

I'll listen to anything involving Makalua.

Speaking as a UH Manoa alumni.

EDIT: To whoever in the cast who was asking: "Should in-game Japan surrender when nukes are dropped on them to stay in keeping with their historical character?" That's really a nonsensical question because Japan was the only country to ever have nukes dropped on it. So suggesting that it should be the only country more willing to surrender when nukes are dropped on it makes no sense since it's not like we have the reactions of other nations with which to compare it.

stealth_nsk · May 21, 2016

Do you have a transcript anywhere? I hate podcasts...

MadDjinn · May 21, 2016

stealth_nsk said:
Do you have a transcript anywhere? I hate podcasts...

you *could* try listening to it on YT and read their really fun transcriptions! :lol:

MadDjinn · May 21, 2016

Westwall said:
EDIT: To whoever in the cast who was asking: "Should in-game Japan surrender when nukes are dropped on them to stay in keeping with their historical character?" That's really a nonsensical question because Japan was the only country to ever have nukes dropped on it. So suggesting that it should be the only country more willing to surrender when nukes are dropped on it makes no sense since it's not like we have the reactions of other nations with which to compare it.

I'm not sure he said 'japan' specifically, else I'd have jumped on that. The way I heard it at the time was 'any' civ getting nuked.

stealth_nsk · May 21, 2016

MadDjinn said:
you *could* try listening to it on YT and read their really fun transcriptions!

Oh, no

BTW, is there any new info? I really just don't have an option to delicately listen the podcast for an hour.

DanQ · May 21, 2016

dexters said:
Great episode. Loved the discussion on support units.

Thank you kindly. :king:

Westwall said:
I'll listen to anything involving Makalua.

stealth_nsk said:
Do you have a transcript anywhere? I hate podcasts... [..] s there any new info? I really just don't have an option to delicately listen the podcast for an hour.

I'm sorry to learn that you do not like podcasts. Given your further comment above, is it because your time to listen is limited? If so you could listen in chunks of time (e.g. 10 minutes) over a period of time, such as a day or more.

MadDjinn mentioned the closed captioning on YouTube: it is the closest to a transcript as we can provide as any other means for one is unfortunately not practical. Depending upon what you have read or otherwise heard on CivVI coverage to date, some of the information contained in this episode may be new to you.

Ryika · May 21, 2016

Jeez, either my brain isn't fully working today or the start of that episode was edited in a way to deliberately confuse people.

I really wonder about army stacking. I agree with what MadDjinn said there, if you can combine units to Armies, then why wouldn't you just build as many armies as you'd have units and still fill the map? That sounds like that could become a lot of extra micro-management without solving the initial problem if it's not done correctly.

That said though, it shouldn't actually be too hard to prevent that with reasonable supply limits, an army should of course cost more than a normal unit. If you can only have so many units, then stacking some of them to get the power to push into enemy territory while still have just enough spread to cover all angles could work very well.

stealth_nsk · May 21, 2016

DanQ said:
TI'm sorry to learn that you do not like podcasts. Given your further comment above, is it because your time to listen is limited? If so you could listen in chunks of time (e.g. 10 minutes) over a period of time, such as a day or more.

MadDjinn mentioned the closed captioning on YouTube: it is the closest to a transcript as we can provide as any other means for one is unfortunately not practical. Depending upon what you have read or otherwise heard on CivVI coverage to date, some of the information contained in this episode may be new to you.

Thanks! I'll see what I can do. May be will be able to find some time tomorrow

DanQ · May 21, 2016

Ryika said:
Jeez, either my brain isn't fully working today or the start of that episode was edited in a way to deliberately confuse people.

Seeking as how it was acknowledged in recording that there was an attempt to initially throw listeners off... :mischief:

stealth_nsk said:
Thanks! I'll see what I can do. May be will be able to find some time tomorrow

Acken · May 21, 2016

p

Ryika said:
Jeez, either my brain isn't fully working today or the start of that episode was edited in a way to deliberately confuse people.

I really wonder about army stacking. I agree with what MadDjinn said there, if you can combine units to Armies, then why wouldn't you just build as many armies as you'd have units and still fill the map? That sounds like that could become a lot of extra micro-management without solving the initial problem if it's not done correctly.

That's also what I think will happen. Clogs of units will probably become clogs of 2-3 units armies.

The problem isn't really 1UPTvs2UPT. The problem is clogging, choke points, moving units around and the range vs melee balance. A lot of it has to do with maps to begin with. 1unit choke points should simply not be a thing for example.

DanQ · May 21, 2016

Acken said:
A lot of it has to do with maps to begin with.

You are certainly not alone in wanting to learn some specific information about the construct, including constraints, of maps in CivVI.

dexters · May 21, 2016

Ryika said:
Jeez, either my brain isn't fully working today or the start of that episode was edited in a way to deliberately confuse people.

I really wonder about army stacking. I agree with what MadDjinn said there, if you can combine units to Armies, then why wouldn't you just build as many armies as you'd have units and still fill the map? That sounds like that could become a lot of extra micro-management without solving the initial problem if it's not done correctly.

That said though, it shouldn't actually be too hard to prevent that with reasonable supply limits, an army should of course cost more than a normal unit. If you can only have so many units, then stacking some of them to get the power to push into enemy territory while still have just enough spread to cover all angles could work very well.

If the game is still counting those two units then you pay for 2 units for 1.4 of a unit. There might be limits and cots to armies too.

Ryika · May 21, 2016

dexters said:
If the game is still counting those two units then you pay for 2 units for 1.4 of a unit.

Which may work out just fine, getting more throughput onto a single tile can be very valuable - "space" is a limited resource by itself.

In some sense I find it comparable to upgrading units vs. just producing more. By upgrading your units you get more strength onto a single tile, but you pay some extra gold to actually upgrade the unit. The big difference to the army system is that you pay the gold upfront, not as maintenance.

Acken · May 21, 2016

In tactical games quality is often better than quantity. Once the quantity can no longer get more dps potential due to space limitation quality takes over.

dexters · May 21, 2016

Ryika said:
Which may work out just fine, getting more throughput onto a single tile can be very valuable - "space" is a limited resource by itself.

In some sense I find it comparable to upgrading units vs. just producing more. By upgrading your units you get more strength onto a single tile, but you pay some extra gold to actually upgrade the unit. The big difference to the army system is that you pay the gold upfront, not as maintenance.

Right. So I think there will be incentives to create armies to a certain point but it may not be an army spam. Though I agree this could be a big balance issue.

It likely won't be like CivRev where 3 unit combined armies are always the way to go as there is no unit support in CivRev.

Unit support will presumably still be a limited in Civ6 so I can see it coming into play especially if 3 unit armies still cost as if you are supporting 3 units, and possibly a surcharge on top of that.
It's also possible that only certain types of units can be combined, ie: infantry units Tanks but not airforces/warships/ranged support units. This would make it somewhat easier to counter 'armies'. So the calculus becomes attack with 6 units and 1army using the single units as canon fodder vs. attack with 3 armies and risk the defending forces focus firing on just 3.

We'll have to see, but the concern is valid. I agree.

DefiantMars · May 21, 2016

I liked that you all brought up Naval units in Unit discussion. I feel like Naval aspects of Civ games seem to be second fiddle to land gameplay. Which I understand, but at the same time I don't want Aquatic gameplay to be an afterthought.

Its still too early to tell how anything will actually work. But Great show Polycast, I look forward to hearing your future discussions as we get more info.

Acken · May 21, 2016

Well I think it has more to do with how poor the AI usually has been with naval combat. It kind of made people discard it as the easy mode in civ5 and therefore focus their thought on land combat.

That said, now that you mention it, I'm all for interesting naval combat.

Ryika · May 21, 2016

...to which I can only say: Bring back piracy.

PolyCast Episode 255: "That Much More Enticing"

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