How to leverage Imperialistic: I call it the "four one-pop cities strat"!

nate46

Warlord
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
269
People use this trait wrong, I think. If you play an imperialistic leader like a normal leader, you're not going to benefit as much! You need to crank out settlers as fast as possible!

Its like mitosis! You build four cities, fast! Simple, right? This strat works best with Julius or Victoria since you want an economic trait and mining/fishing is great for this.

THE PRINCIPLES OF IMPERIALISTIC:

1) Don't grow your cities past size 1 until you have four of them. Food, who needs it?

2) Always beeline bronze working then pottery.

3) Chopping forests is more important than improving tiles, until you have four cities, four workers, and adequate barbarian defense.

4) Even after the initial four, don't be afraid to build a couple more cities than you normally would. They're cheaper!

5) Build cottages everywhere, not just in your capital. You're going wide, not tall.

WHY THIS WORKS:

Because you're imperialistic, a plains hill city working a plains hill mine produces 9 hammers per turn when producing a settler. So from size 1, you're actually producing cities just as fast as a typical pop 3 capital. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE. Don't forget, the imperialistic trait also affects the hammers you get from chopping forests.

So lets do a comparison:

Scenario 1: A healthy size 5 cap that averages 4 hammers/food per square, incl base square, for a total of 24 hammers/food. Costs 10 food to feed, so you're doing 14 hammers/turn for settler production. You also have two workers that are chopping two forests every 4 turns, for an average of 10 hammers/turn. So this comes out to: 24 hammers/turn for settler production.

Scenario 2: A size 1 cap that is imperialistic. You produce 9 hammers/turn for settlers. You also have two workers who are chopping two forests every four turns, for 15 hammers/turn. So your total hammers/turn is 24... the same as above.

So -- what does this mean? It means that, accounting for chopping with two workers, a pop 1 imperialistic city churns out settlers just as fast as a 5 pop non-imperialistic capital! So what do you need a 5 pop city for? nothing, that's what!

Here's a rundown of how to get four cities by 2520 BC in normal speed (even sooner than this on marathon):

Turn 1: Settle on plains hill.
Turn 13: Worker in capital. Begin producing settler.
Turn 17: Plains hill mine near capital. 28/100 settler.
Turn 18: Bronze Working researched.
Turn 22: first forest chopped. 103/100 settler.
Turn 23: first settler complete. 8/60 worker.
Turn 25: second city founded (preferably on another plains hill somewhere nearby).
Second city immediately starts producing a settler.
Turn 26: Second forest chopped. 46/60 worker. 7/100 settler.
Turn 29: second worker complete. 3/100 settler. 28/100 settler.
Turn 30: third forest chopped. 42/100 settler. 35/100 settler.
Turn 33: fourth forest chopped. 99/100 settler. 56/100 settler.
Turn 34: second settler complete. Capital starts producing warriors for barbarian defense.
(you can chop a few warriors sooner than this for barb def if necessary, depends what the map looks like and what difficulty you play.)
Turn 34: fifth forest chopped (near second city). 93/100 settler.
Turn 35: Third settler complete (from 2nd city).
Turn 37 +: From here you have four cities! Next chop a couple more workers, plus some warriors for barb defense, then start developing your civilization!

Now, you may be thinking "But if i just have one pop 5 city, my population is higher than your 4 1 pop cities". That may be true, but it's the wrong way of looking at things. Think about it: I'm working four different base squares -- and you're not! Total squares worked for me: 8. Total squares worked for you: 6. 8 > 6.

Discuss. :lol:
 
...
Food, who needs it?
...
Discuss. :lol:

You only seem to consider hammers from worked tiles and chopping. But IMP also applies its bonus to the converted hammers gained from whipping settlers, so food-rich cities may profit just as well. Also, at some point you might want to produce more than just settlers, hire specialists, etc. and your plains hill mines suddenly won't look so juicy anymore.

The thing I like about IMP is simply that it is easier to find a city to take over the settler production from the capital when you want to grow it or run scientists there.
 
Why would you want 4 workers for 4 cities when you are stifling their growth at S1? It's not like you need tile improvements. It sounds like all you are using workers for is chopping so spending 120 on 4 workers instead of 2 is worth 6 forest chops.

Also, there are plenty of benefits to having larger cities. That size 5 city you mention is 100 food ahead of the size 1 city that hasn't been allowed to grow. It might seem like you are ahead of the game early, but you will pay for that later.

There are certainly occasions when sacrificing some growth for rapid expansion is the right call, but that's primarily on cramped Deity maps and such where you could get boxed in badly very early in the game.
 
Why would you want 4 workers for 4 cities when you are stifling their growth at S1?

I'm not stifling their growth at S1. I just don't grow them until there are four.

edit: I've done this strat many times. 4 is the correct number of workers. See this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=14299088&postcount=63

The workers have plenty to do. I don't chop very many forests after i get four workers, most of the worker time is spent building cottages.
 
This is why Civilization is such a great franchise. There are more ways than one can imagine on how to play. I'm sure someone out there has just read this thread and they are screaming inside! Why are they screaming? Because they have a much better and more refined 8 one city pop strategy.

Someone else is probably thinking you're a total noob because they have a much better Alpha rush strategy which they have used 997 times involving no workers, no roads and 2 city/double mine REX strategy..........so on and so forth. As long as you're having fun that's all that matters.

If the discussion turns to what's the most optimal then I'd suggest heading over to the HoF and check out all the games involving IMP leaders and see how they opened. Obviously published results are the end to all end in regards to game theory.
 
yeah, this game is fun!

If the discussion turns to what's the most optimal then I'd suggest heading over to the HoF .

Well, the thing about hall of fame games is they usually have ridiculous starting positions like double wet corn gems or something. All my strat needs is a few forests, really.
 
This is interesting, and I will try it out in some games. Thanks!

However, if I have four cities on turn 37 on Deity - probably not even connected by roads yet - I will pay A LOT of upkeep that I won't be able to sustain, what with not working any cottages, having foreign trade routes etc. Might try a lesser version of it with Caesar (IMP/ORG) though.
 
It's always fun trying to make something good out of all traits.
I do similar with Imp usually, but i favor new cities and their trees and still grow my Cap early for the reasons Izuul mentioned.

Or my Cap if nothing else to do, but nothing else comes from too much maintenance paid early and no writing for a library yet. Settler overflow whips in Cap can be good, not many turns needed to prepare them.

With playing almost only Deity, it's not working well too early cos barbs are too dangerous when grabbing much land and settling fast.
Sometimes i also want my Cap on wonders, Augustus can be interesting i guess.
 
I think this line is completely fine under the right circumstances. Goes well with worker stealing and floodplains, as they are OK tiles even unimproved. Kinda need rivers too for insta-connectivity.

An example from NC 155 Justinian:

Spoiler :

Civ4ScreenShot0025_zps806f76c7.jpg
 
A strategy like this might make turning huts on favorable to the human because each hut still gives a 25% chance for gold, even on deity. Even something like 40 gold from a single hut could support your upkeep costs for a while, keeping you at 100% research for a few turns longer at a time when there are very few sources of extra gold.
 
I don't think huts help on deity, the ai's usually get 99% of the huts anyway so its bound to help them more...

...and deity is for masochists anyway, jeez! Played a few more games of it--Its like, if the barbs want you dead, you're gonna die. Got attacked with 2 archers + a warrior at 2800 bc one game. what!!

I rolled another game where i was alone on an island with Montezuma and the only copper was right next to his capital. Uhh... help me here: Is there some way of not getting f***ed if you're alone on an island with montezuma?

I think I'm going to go back to immortal. I think its just a better experience overall, since a much wider variety of strategies work, pretty much every game is winnable even with poor rolls, and you're not so dependent on RNG.
 
...and deity is for masochists anyway, jeez! Played a few more games of it--Its like, if the barbs want you dead, you're gonna die. Got attacked with 2 archers + a warrior at 2800 bc one game. what!!

I think I'm going to go back to immortal. I think its just a better experience overall, since a much wider variety of strategies work, pretty much every game is winnable even with poor rolls, and you're not so dependent on RNG.

Yes, deity is ridiculously hard. Yes, immortal is ridiculously easy. ;)

I rolled another game where i was alone on an island with Montezuma and the only copper was right next to his capital. Uhh... help me here: Is there some way of not getting f***ed if you're alone on an island with montezuma?

Need to gift a city asap, need to get a way to beg from him (with trade routes, beg for :health:-resource, with alpha/currency beg for tech/:gold:). Luckily he often founds a religion and loves it when you convert.
 
Yes, deity is ridiculously hard. Yes, immortal is ridiculously easy. ;)

Well, I wouldn't say ridiculously easy but ...

maybe i could come up with a happy medium through settings... Has anyone tried immortal with aggressive AI turned on? i should try that...
 
Has anyone tried immortal with aggressive AI turned on? i should try that...

Yeah but it's not harder at all, just a bit different. You could try to play immortal with AI having deity starting units, but it requires some worldbuilder shenanigans so too much trouble.
 
Yeah but it's not harder at all, just a bit different. You could try to play immortal with AI having deity starting units, but it requires some worldbuilder shenanigans so too much trouble.

could also play a huge map on quick... faster speeds & larger maps are harder generally, right? or are there alternate strategies for those too...

I could also pick opponents and only pick really annoying ones...
 
Yeh, quick is a good idea. Somehow the timing is really difficult to get a hang of those few times I've tried it.
 
Now Nate starts to understand what me and Izuul were saying about Knights and Deity ;)

But seriously, many things can still work for you.
Respecting AIs is now part of planning, same with barbs.

Deity needs weeks and months to learn, but your reward can be really intense games.
Not sure what you expected Nate ;)

I find lower difficulties much more limiting by now, on Deity i can get excited about a great start, and i can enjoy losing if it's not enuf. Everything feels like a bigger achievement.

For me playing games where i know i will win is masochistic, not Deity. Where's the fun in that?
 
Yeah but it's not harder at all, just a bit different. You could try to play immortal with AI having deity starting units, but it requires some worldbuilder shenanigans so too much trouble.

Aren't the AI bonuses per difficulty moddable? I don't know which file they're in, but you should be able to adjust the immortal bonuses to make immortal harder, but not as hard as deity.
 
Aren't the AI bonuses per difficulty moddable? I don't know which file they're in, but you should be able to adjust the immortal bonuses to make immortal harder, but not as hard as deity.

Nice idea. If only someone would do it for me. :)
 
Back
Top Bottom