NC CLXXXI - Suleiman - Ottoman Empire

nate46

Warlord
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
269
The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Suleiman of the Ottomans, whom we last played in CXLVI. The Ottomans start with The Wheel and Agriculture.



Traits:
Imperialistic : +100% Great General emergence. +50% faster production of settlers (from hammers only).
Philosophical : Great People birth rate increased by 100%. Double production speed of University.


its UB is HAMMAM: an Aqueduct with +2 :)



its UU is JANISSARY: a Musketman with a 25% bonus against melee, archery, and mounted units.



And the start:



Spoiler for map details:
Spoiler :

Map script is Fractal, Standard, Temperate.


Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other continent if applicable, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, and all of you for playing.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 73 Pericles Noble" (or Monarch, if you want the AI to start with its usual Archery bonus tech, or Immortal for Archery+Hunting, or Deity to add Agriculture). This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Note: The standard saves have huts and events turned ON. To play without huts or events, choose the saves with NoHuts_NoEvents in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the regular save and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

For players on Prince, you should use the Noble save, there's no techs to add nor units. Players have a slightly higher handicap, the computer a lower one.
For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler :

Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
Exit the worldbuilder.
Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
 

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Great Scientist farming for a super early Education -> Gunpowder -> Domination!

Could be fun. :bounce:

Is that food 2E, I hope so? Warrior should go find out. In starts like this I'm worried about moving away from food.

Challenge for this game: how quickly can you get to at least 50 pop + at least 6 cities + gunpowder?
 
regarding starting position:
Spoiler :


In starts like this I'm worried about moving away from food.

It's a plains cow. :lol: This is a food poor map, but it makes up for it with two gold mines. Shouldn't be a problem for early development because of imp. Although later you'll need to run your specialists somewhere other than the cap.
 
Immortal marathon 1130bc
Spoiler :
Basic calculation: Bowmen + double gold = HA rush. Babylon falls 1130bc, 5 cities. Tech is the worry. Barbs aren't a problem because I started by building Gwall.
 
Thanks for hosting your first ever Nobles' Club! I'll play it as soon as I have won (or lost) the latest BOTM...
 
Deity players should consider reading this before playing:
Spoiler :

I'll be impressed if anyone can actually beat this map on deity. I don't think you can :D
 
Oh Oh... Plenty of hammers and commerce here, but where's the food? I would like to settle 1NW or else 1NE, a food resource could lead me away me from that though.
 
Haha, nate46, obvious bait. :)

But I am hooked. :)
 
Hmm, don't see a food resource :scan:, so settling in place might be a problem.

IM, epic, 10 turns in:
Spoiler :

plain cow is not a food resource :( the start will be slow, need to get BW ASAP and chop for our life
 
Re food:
Spoiler :
No real food resources in starting position but plenty of flood plains. The issue isn't food surplus but health deficit.
 
Played it up to 2000BC and.........(Imm/Epic/NHNE)

Spoiler :

Indeed, there's more FP's to be found. Happily settled 1NW. This is actually a good city for specialists and production. It will be easy to switch from one to the other. Quite suitable for a phi leader.

Also 1 AI appears nearby, one that requires horses for a proper rush........

Claimed more FP area with Edirne 2850BC. Currently building up city sizes before next expansion (probably north). Halfway alphabet tech wise (Min,Bronze,Pot,AH,Wri)
 
Looking forward to starting this up tonight

Some thoughts on the start
Spoiler :
A 2 gold start with floodplains is pretty interesting. I agree with Benginal about being worried about moving away from food. Knowing NC if we're going to be given 2 gold tiles I seriously doubt there's a great food tile in the BFC.

I'll likely move the warrior SE to get a better idea of what I'd have to give up to move the settler. If I don't see a compelling reason to SIP I like the look of the plains hill 1NW of the settler. Even if there isn't any good food it looks like there will be mostly riverside tiles, plus the hammer bonus.

Imp will be pretty useful here for getting out settlers even if there isnt much food. Too early to tell how useful philo will be here but that just depends on how much food is around. The fact that we are given 2 gold makes me nervous about what kind of food is around though!
 
Update to 2560 BC

Spoiler :
This is quite the interesting situation. There's FPs everywhere but not much food. I'm a little slow to my first settler which just came out this turn, was probably a mistake to farm a FP before building my first goldmine. 1 chopped the settler, have some hammers into a granary.

Here's an overall look of the surrounding land with my ideas of how to develop the area

Spoiler :
With all the potential coastal city sites around and the stone popping up in the north going for the GLH could make sense here.

Spoiler :
A seafood resource, plains cows and a couple hills, I might not settle this one until after I attack Babylon.

Spoiler :
Gems and Stone in the north is nice.


Looks like a favorable overall start, so far I've met Hammy, Gandhi, and Ragnar. Hammy would appear to be the only civ who is close by though, and he is very close. I decided this was a good point to step back and think towards my overall plan.

I think Hammy has to go. There's a fair bit of land to be settled peacefully but if I could take him out quick I think I can settle at least 10 cities, and maybe as many as 15 depending on how far away the next civ is.

So I think I'll settle the horses, then the stone third and rush with chariots. After that its probably mids and caste. Too bad so many of the FPs will need to be farmed

 
My advice is not to look at plains cows as a food resource. Farmed flood plains can be better because you can work both your golds sooner. Also it is obvious there is at least one FP in the west, therefore going 1NW is not a gamble at all. You also get more rivers. I dont find this spoilerish because it can be seen from the starting position and from the only logical warrior move. :)
 
Deity players should consider reading this before playing:
Spoiler :

I'll be impressed if anyone can actually beat this map on deity. I don't think you can :D

Might want to put some caveats on that. I AP cheesed an "impossible" deity map once just to be a jerk ^_^. It was a "you can settle only 1 city as Mongolia, rest is blocked by mountains and fast expanding AI" map. So I built AP in Christianity, switched back to Judaism, and spread Christianity to the Jewish founder like mad. Then each nation got 1 Christian missionary, game over.

People better than me have won some legit crazy deity maps with conquest though too.
 
BIG spoilers (related to what map edits I made). Don't click this ;) :
Spoiler :
the only map changes i made involved making ragnar's starting position better. If i did it right, he should have 1-3 vassals pretty quickly. Although i haven't played the map, so not sure how it will actually play out.
 
Immortal marathon. 500bc. Debating whether to go for CoL or music next. Just researched currency, recently completed Glib. Confu already founded but CoL not open for trade, temporary monopoly on lit.
 
Deity, 2120BC:

Spoiler :

Settled for six Floodplains + double Gold. Hammy founds Buddhism in his neighbouring city and starts stealing the Floodplains in my outer ring from my capital :eek:

Plan: Take Trebs to him via Engineering bulb route. This means foregoing the double seafood I can see in the short term but with Philo + double gold I'll be getting there soon. I can get Oracle 2000BC here (Metal Casting) to get a head start.

2120BC: The Oracle has been built. :mad: I needed only four more turns to complete it.

We'll see how far the failgold will carry me...
 
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