WAR!! Russia has Launched a Surprise Attack!!!

Noticed the Russian Spearman near our Iron source near Elephantine begaining of last turn. I theorized it might be there as a preemptive attempt at our Iron resources for war, but had no basis except them being in our territory near Iron. No real garentee.

When I got the turn 5 save I saw it was ON our Iron.

CG, then informed us Russia declared war on us and we lost Houston. THAT's when I saw the Caravel right outside of Houston in the turn 5 save, which almost garenteed the Invasion to come in the follow turns. We then promptly killed the Spearman on the Iron BEFORE he cut the roads (still have several backup resources though), and then halted the Turn chat.

I should come at little surprise. An AI sees an undefended city, they gun for it. In retrospect a spearman at least should have been rushed there, but I was concentrating on Egypt and our mainland. Houston rarely ever entered into my thoughts.

This has the potential to interupt our Egypt war, or "Distract" the other AI's to allow us to take care of Egypt ourselves, not to mention get on better terms with them.

It has been suggested we use this war as a "Phony War" like the Persian war from DG2. To keep the AI's busy, but the fact is, a war with Russia won't be quickly stopped, requiring Military Alliances or SOMETHING. to ensure Russia doesn't use Greece, America, or the Aztecs against us.

I had CG establish the Embassies we were lacking to allow us to make informed decisions about MPP's, ROP's, and MA's to keep this war form turning against us.

I agreed to take any heat from the unauthroized expenditure in order to make sure discussion wouldn't be Delayed by lack of information in this area. Regardless we SHOULD have had Embassies with EVERYONE by now!!

An Exerpt from my Summary in a speach form

The Guns of August
On August 21st, 1400AD - A date which will live in infamy, The Fanatican was suddenly and deliberatly attacked by the forces of the Russian Empire. The Russians marched into Houston with no restance. Luckly we have managed to pick off there spear before it had the chance to pillage our iron by the frontear area to the north. Falcon02 is currently making plans for the war. The Russians have thrown a wrench into the Egyptian plans

I beleve we should take the Russian Fronter City. We should also try to create some MA against Russia to distract them while we get the Egyptian War rolling. Egypt should be our first priority. We should wage a Phony war against Russia.

I have folded under the group pressure during the turnchat (those bullies), and concur that we should aim our might against Egypt rather than Russia. However, the northern coast must be better prepared for another eventual landing by the russians, perhaps simply in form of a cavalry unit being asigned a section of the beach.

If the aim had been conquest rather than a (lame) spaceship, I would have argued that Houston be retaken for purposes involving airpower later on. Even though only for defensive purposes I feel that a fleet should be formed, also useful for naval bombardment and reconnaisance of course.

Yes, agreed Coastal cities should start working on Ironclads to Intercept any Russian landing Parties. We are very close to our qouta for Cavalry for the Egyptian offensive freeing up resources for building these ships.

ToE and Wall Street SHOULD NOT be delayed by this War.

We may want to concider actually Upgrading our Spearmen at a HUGE cost of 2240 gold (were just above that mark before the Embassies). Or at least Phase out the Spearmen with Muskets quickly.

I know I promised only a temporary interuption on infrastructure but Russia changed things. This will be done more on the Governor's Discression, but the difference is this is for Defense NOT offense. If Governors do not Provide Muskets and/or Barracks for Upgrades (assuming the money is authorized). Then back cities hav the potential to be lost. Cavalry should be stationed in the back areas to counter attack. Just glancing at the Map there should be small Cav stacks in 3 parts of our Mainland to provide counterattacks to allow for Immediate responces.

I couldn't care less about Houston really, should have been abandoned a long time ago, at which point we likely wouldn't be in this war. I admit a Spear should have been requested to rush there but I over looked the city so far from our lands.

I believe that a few well-placed Ironclads should be built to scout the sea north of Capitoline for Russian aggressors. If we do this, we shouldn't need as many Cavalry in those regions.

Actually, if we were to switch production in Iron Hills from Iron Works to Ironclad(wow, that's alot of Iron!), we could rush the ship for 104g and begin bombarding the wayward city of Grozny almost immediately. While our ship softens Russia's defenses here, we can send any surplus Cavs to pick off the redlined defenders.

This is the only aggression we should take against Russia. All other positioning should be defensive only.

Frankly, I am not worried about Greece or America. The ideal situation would be for Russia to draw Egypt into the war, especially if it were right on our intended schedule. Countries like Germany and Japan I am not that worried about. If they were to join the war, we would just need to build up our navy a bit more.

When I see Military Alliance, I see 20 turns. That is my only objection to pursuing this avenue. If anything, we should let Russia make the first move and then counter that move with a well-placed ally. Then if this doesn't happen, we can hopefully end the war in 5 turns.

I agree I don't like the 20 turns an alliance would bring, as far as we know when Cathy wants to talk she'll take straight Peace for Peace, but since she's the agressor and took one of our cities already I bet she'd be greedy. I admit it might be good to wait to see their first move.

Secondly, an Egypt alliance on time would be Ideal (we could launch now IMHO with 27 Cavs), only 3 short.

And the Iron Hills Ironclad Idea looks good I'd like at least 5 Ironclads though to scout the seas. I'd prefer a full blockade/defensive line of our shores actually but that's not realistic on such short notice.

What does the FA department have to say about this? Because of the level and our current power, I think the only way we are going to find ourselves in any real trouble is if we don't take steps to avoid a domino war.

It seems as with the Egyptian proposed war panic is taking over. I urge you all to relax, remain calm, sit in your chairs and listen to the VP; he has experience in these matters.

This war should not take our minds away from our goals of building up our Empire and buils the TFRR. We are the strongest Empire and we are able to counter this threat easily. There is little risk of a Domino effect cascading on us; that only happens to the weakest civ, not hte strongest.

To smother this little disturbance I suggest we do the following:
1 - Free our Existing Cavalry to destroy (not capture) the Russian city on our continent.
2 - Build a Nationwide Railroad system.
3 - Counter any Russian attack on our continent with Cavs.
4 - Make peace in 20 turns.

So no Naval power; Let them land and we'll destroy them with our cavs over our railroad network.
Don't sign MA's or MPP's unless the partner pays us for it.
Don't ever sign MA's or MPP's with Egypt or Azteca or America; they are easy pickings for us. Let's hope they declare war on us.

And only upgrade units when enemy forces are close, not sooner. That would be a waste of money.

Alright, here's my opinion on this matter:
We have panicked too much on a war with a distant nation. Houston was of no real importance to us, so it doesn't really matter if it was captured or razed. The Russian frontier city of Grozny should be captured when we find it useful to do so, and a few ironclads should be built, but that's it. I would rather this stay entirely a phony war. If we wish, we could sign MA's with Aztecs or Greece against Russia with the purpose of preventing Russia from signing alliances with them against us, but that is up to the people to decide.

However, I DO NOT want the Egyptian war effort to be derailed by this war. This war appears to have distracted some of us, and I do not want that trend to continue. We should attack Egypt as planned next turnchat, and not give Russia a second glance. We can send a small attack force against Grozny during or after the Egyptian war if we want, but I want this proposed war with Egypt to continue on schedule, not to be distracted by a phony war with Russia.

Don't ever sign MA's or MPP's with Egypt or Azteca or America; they are easy pickings for us. Let's hope they declare war on us.

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I don't want Aztecs or Americans at war with us yet, but let's concentrate on Egypt as planned.

I'm not "Panicing" I realize the possibility, that we will only see 2 Cossacks or spearmen every 10 turns which can be taken out by a few Cavs. and the TFRR will allow us to not have to have so many Cav Stations in the back lines. In fact, according to my most recent Military stats (done last night) Russia is WEAK compared to us (or as the stats say we are strong compared to them).

A.) I'm not panicing I think the Ironclads are an important defense we need. All the AI's have Navies, we've got one outdated troop transport. We need a defensive navy anyway, the Conquest of Houston could have been prevented. (I don't care much for that colony myself but it's the principle of loosing a city).

B.) The MA's and MPP's were given as options. We have used those before in such wars to ensure there isn't a Domino effect and to hamper AI development.

C.) I'm not sure a war with Greece or the Aztecs is as welcomed as you say, the Military Advisor does say we're stronger then them but that is a rather general measure of strength, they are still up to date on Tech IIRC, unlike Egypt.

D.) I to do not want Egypt to be derailed by this war, but on the same note, I want to make sure we are able to put down any Russian landings, that means at least 3-5 Cavalry in the area. Cossacks do have a defense of 4 vs. a Cav's attack of 6, meaning we can still lose to them, esp. if they land on a Mountain or Hill (we have a nice line of coastal mountains near Nar Shaddaa and Wandering Gnome Hills). We also don't have the RR's or even roads everywhere to immediately put down any invasion in many parts. Most of these parts are also defense bonus Mountianous/Hill area.

I feel the Iron clads will be a better defense to the Russian Landing parties then Cavalry counter attacks. However, we still need the Cavalry not only as a back-up but to serve as the primary defense while the Ironclads are being built.

I don't think anyone's Panicing, just rationally discussion our options.

Falcon is absolutely right.
May I suggest that we build an extra 5 cav on top of the planned 30 to deal with any possible threat. They are already in production so there is no ill effect on our production.

I don't believe the Russians to be much of a threat. I think they saw an opportunity to easily take Houston and that is all they really wanted. I think building a few Cavalry and Ironclads for defensive purposes is a sufficient response to Russia. Lets not let it interfere with our existing plans.

Originally posted by zorven
I don't believe the Russians to be much of a threat. I think they saw an opportunity to easily take Houston and that is all they really wanted. I think building a few Cavalry and Ironclads for defensive purposes is a sufficient response to Russia. Lets not let it interfere with our existing plans.

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I agree with that, MA's and MPP's only as a secondary measure if Russia makes the first move and their Ally is of concern.

To confront the Russian threat, Aventine will be changing about a third of the Cavalry currently in queues to Musketmen.

EDIT: Post #1000! REJOICE! [dance] [dance]

The only Russian supply of horses is near Maikop, on the Island shared with Ameria, Greece and China. If that is destroyed there will be no Cossacks.

Just a thought.

I beleve we should just capture there City in the Frontere (The Russian city by our border) and sign MA against Russia so that they can be distracted. AKA, the Phoney War of DG2.

Seize the Island of Maikop!!!!

Originally posted by Noldodan
To confront the Russian threat, Aventine will be changing about a third of the Cavalry currently in queues to Musketmen.

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Please don't do that.
Lets just build an extra 5 cav to deal with the very small threat from Russia.

Well, we can build some extra cavalry units to be used as the Special Ops Bigade and raid the Russian mainland cities, though the only problem is that there is no nearest caravel to shuttle them to Russia.