Space-2: Resurrection of the VoC

Since Space-1 finished, time for something completely different...

The resurrection of the VoC:

The Roster:
1. Space
2. TedJackson
3. mad-bax (back too!)
4. Yom (dropped out)
5. Northern Pike (back!)
6. Conehead (UP)
7. Aggie (dropped out)
8. Karasu (on deck)



On March 20, 1602,
the representatives of the provinces of the Dutch republic, granted a the Dutch East India Company (Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie or VOC) a monopoly on the trade in the East Indies. Its purpose was not only trade; the Compagnie also had to fight the enemies of the Republic and prevent other European nations to enter the East India trade. During its history of 200 years, the VOC became the largest company of its kind, trading spices like nutmeg, cloves, cinnamon and pepper, and other consumer products like tea, silk and chinese porcelain.

This SG will feature the Dutch and will emphasize trade, (naval-)wars and diplomacy.

The roster is filled!

Civ: Dutch
Version: C3C v1.15beta
Level: Deity
Map: Large, Continents, moderate climate, age and humidity
Barbs: none
Rival civs: ???? (to be determined)

Constraints:
1. We have to declare war with all civs who are seafaring *and* have built a harbour. We have to capture or raze the cities containing one. If the civ has no harbours left, we may or may not sign peace. If a new harbour is built, we must re-declare.

2. International, nay inter-continental trade is the name of the game. We will have sell all our surplus luxes, and aim to buy as many as we possibly can. Any trade deals made should be honoured at all times.

3. One of the less glorious trades was the one in humans. Although slaves where not 'kept' in the Netherlands they *where* traded. To emulate this in this game, we will have to either trade or assimilate all slave workers the turn that are captured.

4. This game will only be won if we win the UN chair election....

Rules:
- Strict 24 Hours for a 'got it' 48 hours to play. If you need a skip or a swap, tell me in time.
- The usual exploits are of limits, except for suicide ships: they are allowed, many of the ships who sailed never came home...

Deal me in Space,

I like the always war on Seafaring Civs idea


Ted

Welcome Ted. Glad to have you aboard.

Originally posted by TedJackson
I like the always war on Seafaring Civs idea

Click to expand...

I thought it would make the Diplo victory a bit spicier.

You are going to get so many pple wanting to join this it won't even be funny.

I'd go for a large islands map Space, lots of water. You could even mod it with a few dozen Squid

Count me in BTW.

It feels good counting you in, MB.

When the team is complete we'll decide on the number of civs and what percentage of water to go for.

How about England, Spain & Portugal (all seafaring) plus the other members of the European Group (Russia, Germany & France) pick the rest from non-seafaring Mediterranean Civs?


Ted

I'd like to play, but I should mention that I'll be completely out of touch, for Civ purposes, from February 12 to March 4. I hope this is all right--after all, it's nothing to which Karasu hasn't accustomed us.

Since a central factor in this game will be the number of rival seafaring civs we face, we should certainly establish this by discussion rather than trusting to chance. With too few seafaring civs in the mix the game would be pointless, and with too many it would be deity AW.

Might I suggest that constraint 3, regarding slavery, is perhaps too sweeping as written? I'm not sure that we need to deny ourselves the services of foreign workers around, say, 1000 BC, when A) they'd be very useful, and B) the intercontinental, maritime slave trade would still be far in the future. I think we could model the tricontinental Atlantic slave trade very well by requiring ourselves to deal away or merge all foreign labourers acquired on other continents than our own.

Welcome NP.

Two good points. The number of seafaring Civs is indeed crucial, and I will certainly not leave it to chance in this case.
I actually want to try out a slave-less early game, because I have the feeling they play a major role and I want to know whether we can do without. So how about reversing your proposition and allow slave labour on other continents, but disallow them at home?

Originally I wanted to play this on demi-god (because it's new and because I feel the slave workers are particularly important in the early game) but I know how much challenge is valued in these parts.

BTW I'll be gone for 10 days in March too.

Originally posted by a space oddity
1. We have to declare war with all civs who are seafaring and have built a harbour. We have to capture or raze the cities containing one. If the civ has no harbours left, we may or may not sign peace. If a new harbour is built, we must re-declare.

Click to expand...

Hmm...one question... if you declare peace with a civ, and they build a harbor before the 20 turns are up, do you have to declare war immediately, or as soon as the peace treaty expires. If it is the former, a diplo victory will be very difficult. (Not a join btw).

Glad to be in.

Sure, if you'd like to try an opening without foreign workers as an end in itself, reversing the idea and allowing slaves only on other continents sounds good.

Originally posted by Yom


Hmm...one question... if you declare peace with a civ, and they build a harbor before the 20 turns are up, do you have to declare war immediately, or as soon as the peace treaty expires. If it is the former, a diplo victory will be very difficult. ...

Click to expand...

Yes, you're right of course. Maybe we should be lenient, but I'd rather not. Like the others have said, it boils down to an AW with those Civs. I don't plan on having them around when we call the vote...

Are you sure you don't want to join?

I want to...but I would only be able to play on Fridays and weekends, is that ok with you?

Actually given your emphasis on trade, you could have a "primary" rule which is "always honor every contract" that over-rides all other rules. This makes a LOT of sense for the scenario, traders that are untrustworthy don't get any trade, so having controls of the seas becomes meaningless for the Civ.

I'll join and i like the rule about honoring every trade deal.

@Yom: no problem, I can put you next to Mad-bax, who usually plays on weekdays, so you guys can switch if nescessary/convenient. Welcome.

@conehead: Glad to have you.

Seems like our roster is filled already.

@Greebley: I very much like your idea about honouring trade deals. As you probably know that's the way I usually play anyway, but it's good and fitting to make that an explicit constraint.

What a great concept! Sorry to see that I'm too late. But I'll be lurking

Thanks Aggie.

Shall I put you down as 'first reserve'? (I'm not sure yet that the reserved spot will be taken.)

Space, I'd like that!

So before I generate a start, let's discuss some issues:

1. The reserved spot is for Karasu, he will join, but needs to buy a copy of C3C first. He'll then join as soon as possible. I do want Aggie in the team though, if only to assist me in some genuine Dutch background in this game. The roster will be long, but this allows us to skip when convenient. This will mean that we prolly need to discuss a bit more to keep us all involved at the right level. I'll promiss to run a tight ship and mercyless skip when needed so it won't be too long before the game is back at you.

2. I want to make this a large map. Does everyone have suitable hardware to not become too annoyed in between turns? There'll be lots of water so it shouldn't be too bad. But now is the time to speak up.

3. In this large world with 80% water there normally would be 11 civs. Is this the right number? With 3 or 4 of them seafaring?

and finally

4. Archipelago or continents?

Let me know what you think.

As for the number of civs, I have no idea. I usually don't play on watery or large maps (but I have suitable hardware). I definitely want to play on an Archipelago though. Besides the fact that I've never played a pelago map, it will make the variant tougher, but much more fun.