Rufus T. Firefly
Rufus is coming in town!
This is a icon for Socialism (the classical symbol of Internationale). Use it for a new tech, necessary for new govt: socialdemocracy.
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New Adv/Govt icon
- Thread starter Rufus T. Firefly
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tjedge1
Writer of writerly things
Very pretty. 
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
What would the stats of such a Government be I wonder?
Democracy with a lower worker rate, higher tax rate, and higher troop cost? Maybe higher scientific rating? Higher hapiness?
Democracy with a lower worker rate, higher tax rate, and higher troop cost? Maybe higher scientific rating? Higher hapiness?
W.i.n.t.e.r
Frozen!
Woa- very good looking: More of that kind please
Rufus T. Firefly
Rufus is coming in town!
@ Sword_Of_Geddon: take some ideas from DyP
@Winter: I think that it is perfect for Spartacus league for WWI, not?
@Winter: I think that it is perfect for Spartacus league for WWI, not?
Rufus T. Firefly
Rufus is coming in town!
Actually Socialdemocracy is the type of government used by European country: national healtcare, welfare and similar... and I haven't never see some communist extrem ideal...
According to the works of Engels and Marx, there has been no true Communist countries. A true Communist country has no classes and no government. The USSR, China, Vietnam, and Cuba are really Socialist countries. This government is Social Democracy, which is basically a friendly Democracy with Socialist influences.
Communism was the goal of Socialistic (not Socialist Democratic) countries thus why they are called Communists and why the government in Civ3 is called Communism.
I had Social Democracy in my game but I had used other icon. Now that there is the perfect (I couldn't have asked for better) icons, the government is now 100% complete. Thanks!
Communism was the goal of Socialistic (not Socialist Democratic) countries thus why they are called Communists and why the government in Civ3 is called Communism.
I had Social Democracy in my game but I had used other icon. Now that there is the perfect (I couldn't have asked for better) icons, the government is now 100% complete. Thanks!
Rufus T. Firefly
Rufus is coming in town!
Originally posted by Mobilize
According to the works of Engels and Marx, there has been no true Communist countries. A true Communist country has no classes and no government. The USSR, China, Vietnam, and Cuba are really Socialist countries. This government is Social Democracy, which is basically a friendly Democracy with Socialist influences.
Communism was the goal of Socialistic (not Socialist Democratic) countries thus why they are called Communists and why the government in Civ3 is called Communism.
I had Social Democracy in my game but I had used other icon. Now that there is the perfect (I couldn't have asked for better) icons, the government is now 100% complete. Thanks!
I think that better definition is Real Socialism, BTW. ("Socialism in a country, not in the world" is the Stalin motto)
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
So basically the Government takes care of you eh? So higher happiness, but lower economic growth(Tightly controled business)
The only problem is....Where to put it on the tech-tree?
The only problem is....Where to put it on the tech-tree?
The Commander
Warlord
That makes sense but... isn't that already a lot like Republic? I mean, less economic growth but people have slightly less say in what goes on. (Less war-weariness than Democracy)
I always just sort of figured that Republic was supposed to be a semi-socialist type of government.
Also that picture is really good but do you really wan tthe symbol of your country to be a rose?
I always just sort of figured that Republic was supposed to be a semi-socialist type of government.
Also that picture is really good but do you really wan tthe symbol of your country to be a rose?
StabbingNirvana
because i can ...
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2003
- Messages
- 138
that is a nice icon. if only i were computer savvy, id be adding that to my game along with a socialist gov, but unfortunately, i dont know how to
showoffsg
Chieftain
You can look up the true definitions of all these governments quite easily, you're already connected to the internet.
JKMMustang
Chieftain
Wikipedia states:
In general, contemporary Social Democrats support:
* Private enterprise, but strongly regulated to protect the interests of workers, consumers and small enterprise (in stark contrast to libertarian and some green approaches, e.g. Natural Capitalism which minimizes regulation by controlling commodity prices more directly).
* An extensive system of social security network (see welfare state), notably to counteract effects of poverty and to insure the citizens against loss of income following illness and unemployment.
* Ensuring good education, health care, child care, et cetera for all citizens through government fundings.
* Higher taxes (necessary to pay for the former), especially for higher income groups.
* Extensive social laws (minimum wages, working circumstances, protection against firing).
* Environmental protection laws (like environmental laws specifically opposing monoculture) (although not to the extent of Greens).
* Anti-xenophobic and non-fundamentalist legislations (pro-choice, anti-racist, anti-homophobic) (although not to the extent of anarchists).
* A foreign policy supporting multilateralism and international institutions such as the United Nations.
They also state that criticism of a social democracy includes:
* individual rights suffer
* high taxes and budget deficits hurt the economy
In general, contemporary Social Democrats support:
* Private enterprise, but strongly regulated to protect the interests of workers, consumers and small enterprise (in stark contrast to libertarian and some green approaches, e.g. Natural Capitalism which minimizes regulation by controlling commodity prices more directly).
* An extensive system of social security network (see welfare state), notably to counteract effects of poverty and to insure the citizens against loss of income following illness and unemployment.
* Ensuring good education, health care, child care, et cetera for all citizens through government fundings.
* Higher taxes (necessary to pay for the former), especially for higher income groups.
* Extensive social laws (minimum wages, working circumstances, protection against firing).
* Environmental protection laws (like environmental laws specifically opposing monoculture) (although not to the extent of Greens).
* Anti-xenophobic and non-fundamentalist legislations (pro-choice, anti-racist, anti-homophobic) (although not to the extent of anarchists).
* A foreign policy supporting multilateralism and international institutions such as the United Nations.
They also state that criticism of a social democracy includes:
* individual rights suffer
* high taxes and budget deficits hurt the economy
Te benefits of social democracy should really be [if posssible]:
Deasreased city size unhappyness
Incresed Life Expectancy (cheaper hospitals / NHS small wonder-pays for hospitals, aquaducts)
Increased Literacy (cheaper libraries / something similar to NHS for science buildings)
war weariness as democracy - may have modifiers for less if ally, less against facist
Increased cost to rush build - 5 gold per sheild rather than 4 - due to higher worker wages
lower corruption than demo [due to increased personal wealth among the poor]
3 commerce limit per tile - high tax rate on the rich
becomes available with new tech Unionisation - requires Combustion
Unionisation - factories cost 2 maintanence rarther than 3
This is an ideal situation but may make the game unbalanced-not sure what overall effect on treasury will be
Deasreased city size unhappyness
Incresed Life Expectancy (cheaper hospitals / NHS small wonder-pays for hospitals, aquaducts)
Increased Literacy (cheaper libraries / something similar to NHS for science buildings)
war weariness as democracy - may have modifiers for less if ally, less against facist
Increased cost to rush build - 5 gold per sheild rather than 4 - due to higher worker wages
lower corruption than demo [due to increased personal wealth among the poor]
3 commerce limit per tile - high tax rate on the rich
becomes available with new tech Unionisation - requires Combustion
Unionisation - factories cost 2 maintanence rarther than 3
This is an ideal situation but may make the game unbalanced-not sure what overall effect on treasury will be
Commissar_Yari
Chieftain
To see you people bickering over what socialism and social democracy is and isn't. I'll give you some real definitions, being that I am a socialist myself and it is my particular ideology.
Socialism:
-The early stage of communism. It is the transitory period that you go through in order to get to communism. Anarchism (the actual form of anarchism, not the warped "chaos" meaning) is very similar to communism, except they don't have the transition, and their goal is to instantly get to a communistic society.
-Nearly all socialists and historians today acknowledge that the USSR from around 1921-1991 was not socialist at all. That's only about 3 years of socialism, under Lenin. If you want more proof, then just PM me. The USSR did not follow ANY socialist ideology whatsoever.
-China hasn't been socialist since the 70's, in which Deng Xiaoping took control and reformed China.
-The biggest mistake un-informed people make when talking about this subject is when they talk about socialism as if it is something entirely seperated from communism. It's not seperate at all. Socialism is really just "early communism". If somebody is a socialist, they are also a communist. There is nothing wrong with this, just there are a lot of idiots who believe the propaganda put out by the US government.
Now, about Social Democracy. Social Democracy is the same as socialism, except it is a different method for reaching Communism:
-Social Democrats aim to reach Communism through legislation; They intend to get to communism through reforming the current capitalist system.
-The major factor seperating socialists/communists from social democrats is that socialists/communists intend to start the road to communism through revolution. Social Democrats do not aim to achieve this. They intend to start the path to communism through being elected and making reforms.
-Modern scandinavian governments are NOT social democratic as some may have you believe. Their agenda is not that of a socialist/communist one. They do not intend to publicise industry or the means of production, or change the governmental structure so the people have more control. This is what seperates modern scandinavian governments from social democratic ones.
1. None of us state that individual rights suffer, as people gain more, not less.
2. Economy is not something that concerns us as much as other factors.
Socialism:
-The early stage of communism. It is the transitory period that you go through in order to get to communism. Anarchism (the actual form of anarchism, not the warped "chaos" meaning) is very similar to communism, except they don't have the transition, and their goal is to instantly get to a communistic society.
-Nearly all socialists and historians today acknowledge that the USSR from around 1921-1991 was not socialist at all. That's only about 3 years of socialism, under Lenin. If you want more proof, then just PM me. The USSR did not follow ANY socialist ideology whatsoever.
-China hasn't been socialist since the 70's, in which Deng Xiaoping took control and reformed China.
-The biggest mistake un-informed people make when talking about this subject is when they talk about socialism as if it is something entirely seperated from communism. It's not seperate at all. Socialism is really just "early communism". If somebody is a socialist, they are also a communist. There is nothing wrong with this, just there are a lot of idiots who believe the propaganda put out by the US government.
Now, about Social Democracy. Social Democracy is the same as socialism, except it is a different method for reaching Communism:
-Social Democrats aim to reach Communism through legislation; They intend to get to communism through reforming the current capitalist system.
-The major factor seperating socialists/communists from social democrats is that socialists/communists intend to start the road to communism through revolution. Social Democrats do not aim to achieve this. They intend to start the path to communism through being elected and making reforms.
-Modern scandinavian governments are NOT social democratic as some may have you believe. Their agenda is not that of a socialist/communist one. They do not intend to publicise industry or the means of production, or change the governmental structure so the people have more control. This is what seperates modern scandinavian governments from social democratic ones.
1. None of us state that individual rights suffer, as people gain more, not less.
2. Economy is not something that concerns us as much as other factors.
Rufus T. Firefly
Rufus is coming in town!
Finally someone who known history and politics theories without propaganda ideas...
JKMMustang
Chieftain
Originally posted by Rufus T.Firefly
Finally someone who known history and politics theories without propaganda ideas...
Being a social studies (including history and government) teacher I am well aware of propaganda's role in history. Of course, one man's bible is another's kindling.
What is history but a discussion of opposing viewpoints? This forum is no exception. I didn't see anything as bickering, but now I do see some babbling. (mine included!
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