Espionage

GeneralX

Warlord
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
123
Location
Townsville, Australia
There are a lot of options for growth here. For starters, spies should be introduced earlier in the game, as soon as an embassy can be established. I propose that before it is possible to have an intelligence agency that they should be “spies”, but after the intelligence agency is established you produce “agents”, a sign that the profession has developed (of course they would be better than spies. They are less likely to get caught and do a better job). Spies/Agents can be planted in any city and their functions are mostly as before, but also, more information gathering. There needs to be several grades of information and across a broad spectrum of game features. The information would be available by clicking on your embassy in that country, going to each advisor screen, and during trade negotiations. The lowest grade information would be like this:
Domestic – “The Russian civilization is not growing.”
Trade – “The Russians have iron to trade.”
Military – “The best unit that the Russians have, that we know of, is the Cossacks.”
Foreign – “The Russians are at war with America. Their allies are France and Germany.”
Cultural – “The Russian culture is less influential than ours.”
Scientific – “The latest advance that the Russians have discovered is Nationalism.”

The highest grade information would look like this:
Domestic – “The Russian civilization is not growing. The national income is set at 20% to revenue, 25% to Defence, 15% to Health/Welfare, 25% to Education/Science, 10% to Culture/Entertainment, and 5% to Trade/Infrastructure. The fastest growing city is Moscow which is currently at 19. The city that produces the most food is Stalingrad with 15. The city that has the highest production is Stalingrad with 4. The city that produces the most commerce is Moscow with 20. The city that produces the most science is Moscow with 17. The income generated is 605 gold, with expenses at 604 gold. There is 26 gold in the treasury. 15% of the population are happy, 50% are content, 35% are unhappy. The current government is Feudalism.”
Trade – “The Russians have 1 surplus iron and 2 surplus horses to trade. We are connected to Russia through the cities of St. Petersburg and Moscow. The Russians are seeking to acquire more coal and will pay well for it. They currently trade silk with Germany for 1 gold a turn, and spices with France for a world map and 20 gold. They have attempted to trade iron and horses with the English, the Zulu and the Chinese but have not been successful.” In the diplomacy menu what would appear is “The Russians will pay 1 gold per turn, 20 gold lump sum, horses, a world map, and the technology of Nationalism for coal. They may pay more if pushed.”
Military – “Currently the Russians have 15 workers, 28 rifleman (5 elite, 4 veteran, 19 regular), 14 Cossacks (1 elite, 2 veteran, 11 regular), 16 cannon (0 elite, 2 veteran, 14 regular), 8 frigates (1 elite, 1 veteran, 6 regular) and 6 galleons (0 elite, 0 veteran, 6 regular). Most units are concentrated in Moscow (10 rifleman, 4 Cossacks, 7 cannon, 4 frigates, 2 galleons). The city with the least number of units is St. Petersburg (1 rifleman, 1 cavalry, 1 cannon). Currently the Russians are building 10 rifleman, 5 cavalry and 2 cannon.” There would also be a “newsflash” appear in the normal game screen for “special” messages eg. “The Russians have suddenly moved a large force to St. Petersburg. St Petersburg is near our city of Sydney. In St. Petersburg there are now 10 rifleman (5 elite, 4 veteran, 1 regular), 4 Cossacks (1 elite, 2 veteran, 1 regular), and 7 cannon (2 veteran, 5 regular). The intention of the Russians is to attack Sydney within 2 turns.” (An example of a high grade “news flash”.)
Foreign – “The Russians are trying to negotiate a Mutual Protection Pact with the Chinese and Japanese. They already have Mutual Protection Pacts with the French and Germans. The reason for the pact is so they can attack the Americans in 10 turns. The Russian leader is Catherine. She is angry with the Americans over a trade embargo and wants to conquer the city of New York to give her access to the coal near that city.”
Culture – “Russia’s cultural borders and influence is shrinking. The most culturally dominant city the Russians have is Moscow with a cultural rating of 4. The Russians have few cultural improvements (1 amphitheatre, 4 temples, 1 cathedral, no wonders). Currently there are no cultural improvements being built. There are no wonders being built.”
Scientific – “The most recent advance the Russians have discovered is Nationalism. Their research funding is barely adequate. Each advance takes 25 turns to discover. Currently they are researching the steam engine.”

The quality and quantity of the information will depend on how many spies/agents you have, where they are, how experienced they are (i.e. how long they have been planted without being caught).

Currently you have to produce a spy to expose a spy. I would like this modified so that you can produce a spy/agent and position them in one of your own cities. They would act as a counter-espionage agent. The more spies/agents you have in that city the more chance you have of exposing any spies/agents from other countries there. Only one spy/agent can be exposed in each city per turn. When an enemy spy/agent is exposed you don’t loose the spies/agents you have in that city. They remain and continue their work, but are now experienced and are more likely to succeed. For Communist governments these spies/agents would supplement the work of the secret police and increase the effectiveness of this improvement, reducing the likelihood of civil disorder etc.

The cost of placing a spy/agent will need to be less so that a reasonable network can be established. They would not be used for sabotage though. For this there needs to be a third type of spy, a covert operations agent, who would perform acts of sabotage. The espionage screen would have them as an option (“Plant Covert Ops”) and they would perform sabotage duties only. The cost of this team would be the same as it is for a spy now.
 
Vizurok said:
I like the idea, but it shouldnt be so exact. The spy tells informations, not advices. So you should not get the reasons, only the facts.
Good idea! :goodjob:

Not exactly. The spy only reports what he/she sees. The Intellegence communit analzes the data and makes recommendations to the powers that be. Therefore, the ideas GeneralX raises makes sense. At least to me.
 
How will you know what the enemy is about to do in that news flash? Anything that involves reading the AI's mind or changing the AI's programming (I don't mean something like the reputation system; I mean something like CivII's Eiffel Tower) should not be implemented,
 
Good ideas!
 
Definately much much better than the system that currently exists.

The only thing I would bring up is having a counter-espionage system such as the one you described would make it nearly impossible for the AI to infiltrate your cities, and vice versa. If the counter-espionage agents only become more efficient with time, by the later stages of the game, trying to infiltrate the enemy would lead only to international incidents more often then not, making espionage more trouble than it's worth.
 
A lot of what generalX says is great, maybe a little too much information on the 'high grade info' but it's a splendid idea.

I do get annoyed with the high consequences spying has at the moment, mostly the
ones you really want to spy on are allready annoyed with you so failing will likely get
you in a war. Maybe you could have an option to pay for damages when caught, offcourse that would not always be possible.

I was actually looking for an existing thread to post my idea on, I guess this would be
a good one. The news flashes that you talk about? I want them!
Put a spy on the lookout for tech advances and a flash message will appear whenever
the enemy has completed research or traded a tech. Same for resources, put a spy on resource watch and be alerted for the dreaded day your neighbour gets that iron! (yes spies should be there as early as possible in the game).
This is the kind of information I want my spies to gather, I want to know about changes, not about some static advisory things that don't intrest me.
 
-also estimates of unit strength and last information on placement. Nothing makes me unhappier then finding a unit with aerial recon and losing its location after i bomb it and not being able to hit it again. I know where it is, I should be able to hit it again.
-list of techs the enemy has (like in Civ I)
 
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