National highway system

dmanakho · Jun 1, 2004

I don't think it is right that only RR have ability to transport units during the same turn.
I think in real word travelling freeway is as fast as using the train.
Plus, it will also help when you have no coal as a resource.
I suggest there should be new small wonder, You can call it National Highway Administration. It could be built lets say after building mass transit in 5 cities.
Players who built wonder will convert their regular roads into freeway system and will be able to travel with the same speed as if you had a RR.

Not sure if it's a smart or rather stupid idea but it came to me when i played a game and had no coal available. Plus it would be a better representation of real world.

Any comments and suggestions?

Garbarsardar.jr · Jun 1, 2004

IMHO RR alredy seem unrealistic (0 turns?), and I think adding one more transport layer to an alreadt cluttered screen will just add to the aesthetic mess of RR without adding to gameplay,
as to the lack of coal highays then would need oil(cars right?)
and besides that, what better than a nice raid to this tile of Incan hillside to get the frigging coal could you do on a fine day like this?

dmanakho · Jun 1, 2004

Garbarsardar.jr said:
IMHO RR alredy seem unrealistic (0 turns?)

It is not really unrealistic. Turns is what? 5 years or so in Civ time?
So i don't see why can't we travel all accross any country of any size in 5 years

Garbarsardar.jr said:
, and I think adding one more transport layer to an alreadt cluttered screen will just add to the aesthetic mess of RR without adding to gameplay,

Well, we don't need to change screen graphic or anything, just the same plain roads will become high speed highways.

Garbarsardar.jr said:
as to the lack of coal highays then would need oil(cars right?)
?

I reckon that is right, Oil has to be present to have a highway ride. But i think it is a fair game, you have better chances to have either coal or/and oil than two of them together. This is especially true on huge maps when resourses are so sparse.

Garbarsardar.jr said:
and besides that, what better than a nice raid to this tile of Incan hillside to get the frigging coal could you do on a fine day lie this

I simply can't argue with that

Dell19 · Jun 1, 2004

Highways would be a useful addition for the modern age so that a civ isn't reliant on coal to build railways although I think highways should be an actual tile improvement that is the same as railroads but uses a different resource, oil.

dh_epic · Jun 1, 2004

I think it's purely representational anyway, building railroads. It's just modernizing your transportation system. I think this makes for better gameplay, anyway, where coal becomes a coveted resource.

Anything to force those tough decisions -- should I trade for that coal, or should I fight for it? Can I live without railroads?

As opposed to "enh, I'll just find a way to get everything for nothing!"

Dell19 · Jun 1, 2004

Highways would strategically come much later on in the game so there would still be a huge strategic choice involved and you might be doubly unlucky and fail to get oil as well.

Garbarsardar.jr · Jun 1, 2004

Via Appia

Highways would be a useful addition for the modern age so that a civ isn't reliant on coal to build railways although I think highways should be an actual tile improvement that is the same as railroads but uses a different resource, oil.

So,IIRC HW will be an alternative to RR in case of absence of coal. With the same movement enhancing property, and similar tile benefits. I think that a more realistic solution could be railroads with movement increase x3 HW the same x3 and then automatic upgrade in the modern age(+resource+technology) to Autobahn and Bullet train with 0 movement penalty.

It is not really unrealistic. Turns is what? 5 years or so in Civ time?
So i don't see why can't we travel all accross any country of any size in 5 years

IMHO what is unrealistic is that the same movement principle (0 penalty) is present From the beginning of Industrial age to the end of the game, and the same could be said about ancient and middle age. Maybe a small wonder like Via Appia should accelerate movement along roads(x1.5) earlier.

dmanakho · Jun 1, 2004

Dell19 said:
Highways would strategically come much later on in the game so there would still be a huge strategic choice involved and you might be doubly unlucky and fail to get oil as well.

Yep, I do agree, that is a very good point,
You will still have to fight for coal as you did before because it will be a long time until highways are available...

Dell19 · Jun 1, 2004

The problem with getting rid of unlimited movement from the industrial age is that pollution is annoying to clear and the only effective way is to use railroads to get workers to pollution spots as quickly as possible. Without unlimited movement pollution could become a far bigger problem.

Milan's Warrior · Jun 1, 2004

Some randow thoughts:

1. speed on railroad could be dimished, and highways (discovered later) could have the speed railroad currently has

2. railroad and highway could be shown only "from here to there", the funciton of commerce improvement could be made less obtrusive to the eye

airrahul · Jun 1, 2004

Actually everyone, I was just thinking, are not modern high speed rail systems (shinkansen in Japan, some in France as far as I know) faster than automobiles going on a road? And aren't they far more useful for military transport with their ability to carry larger amounts of cargo than a large truck? I mean, I have yet to see that many trucks that go at 200 miles per hour regularly on any highways. Perhaps a highway system could add commerce bonuses and speed bonuses for foot units (get in a jeep and go) but not for anything else?

sealman · Jun 1, 2004

airrahul said:
Actually everyone, I was just thinking, are not modern high speed rail systems (shinkansen in Japan, some in France as far as I know) faster than automobiles going on a road? And aren't they far more useful for military transport with their ability to carry larger amounts of cargo than a large truck? I mean, I have yet to see that many trucks that go at 200 miles per hour regularly on any highways. Perhaps a highway system could add commerce bonuses and speed bonuses for foot units (get in a jeep and go) but not for anything else?

I would say the old steam power locos move faster than some of the highways on the Eastern Seabord of the US. :eek:

I used to be able to make the Drive from Washington, DC to Hartford, CT in 6 hours, now I am lucky if I make it in 10. :mad:

(And that was before my little sealpup was born - now it is a 2 day drive

)

I actually do have a point, and that is in high population centers, highways get you to your destination much slower than the train. Just using my commute from Manassas, VA (about 60 miles from DC). My train ride takes me about 1 hour, station - station. While my wife, who only goes half way, drives along our fabulos I-66 for about 30 miles and it takes her a little over an hour.

Game related, the existing transportation system is fine.

searcheagle · Jun 1, 2004

I think we should reduce RR movement whether or not it makes it realistic based on the time scale. It would add to strategy to limit movement-anticipating attack and having adequate defence.

My proposed changes:
RR- 10 squares/turn (still a huge benefit)
Highway (if comes in as proposed)- 15-20 squares/turn

dh_epic · Jun 2, 2004

I think scalable transportation is an interesting idea... more graduated steps between "save a few turns" and "virtually infinite turns".

Chaps · Jun 2, 2004

Hmmm... How to deal with the problem of increased population causing transportation slowdowns? Perhaps if a city is over a certain size (and maybe if it doesn't have enough land around it) then transportation slows down in its vicinity. For example, RR adjacent to a 24 city goes down to 1/4 movement.

Dell19 · Jun 2, 2004

Wouldn't military units get priority on using roads and railways so they wouldn't actually be affected by congestion...

Garbarsardar.jr · Jun 2, 2004

Only in a mobilized status...although that didn't help France in 1940...

Milan's Warrior · Jun 2, 2004

Chaps said:
Hmmm... How to deal with the problem of increased population causing transportation slowdowns? Perhaps if a city is over a certain size (and maybe if it doesn't have enough land around it) then transportation slows down in its vicinity. For example, RR adjacent to a 24 city goes down to 1/4 movement.

As long as cities take up only one square, I don't think this is a problem, all the traffic jam is within that square and we just don't see it

Dell19 · Jun 2, 2004

Garbarsardar.jr said:
Only in a mobilized status...although that didn't help France in 1940...

Okay I would be happy with that. If you mobilise your forces then you get unlimited movement but the negatives of mobilisation would also be increased so that people couldn't constantly stay mobilised for war.

Garbarsardar.jr · Jun 2, 2004

I agree. I always had a problem with how mobilization works(is ther a thread on that?)

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