Governments

To be honest with you, I've only ever played with three governments: Despotism, Monarchy, and Communism. Republic and Democracy have never appealed to the warmonger within me. However, this has left me ignorant in the ways of governments. I realize that Fascism is better than Communism in small empires, while Communism beats Fascism in large empires. I also realize that as a Democracy, you pretty much can't wage an offensive war.

But I'd like to expand my knowledge of the governments. I'd like to know if Feudalism is a good idea to try, and when it's best to switch from Despotism to Monarchy, and from Monarchy to Communism in an average warmonger game. I'd like to know when Republic is better than Monarchy, and when Democracy beats Communism or Fascism. I'd like to know alot more about these governments, and seeing as there is nothing in the War Academy about them, I figured the forums would be the best place to ask.

Thanks in advance.

The increased income of Republic is worth it - even when warmongering, you can build up your army faster in Republic and research faster. A problem is that a republic requires some luxuries and some basic happiness buildings to have a good start.

I would not wonder if you soon notice that you can do better at times in republic compared to monarchy - some player even consider the way to go through the whole game, and this shows how good and versatile this government is.

Feudalism: Chieftess likes it, but I never ever had a game where it came in use for me.

I see. So Republic is generally better than Monarchy once you have a luxury or three and a temple in most cities?

I'll remember that. Thanks.

I'm not much of a warmongerer, but when being attack democratie is not that bad..ppl actually cheer for u and warweariness is basicly null if u aks me..this can also be used to "punish" that civ and conquer it. With democratie u often have sum more techs and what gives a head start..but u really gotta get declared war and not declare u'reself

You can't generally say, you can't wage war in Democracy. If war is declared on you, you get at first war happiness instead of wariness. So you should do quick wars, capture some cities, make peace and wait a few turns. The only problem is a longer war .

Monarchy has it's uses. Sometimes I go for this first, and use the early no-despotism penalty to beef up the infrastructure. Other times I go for republic and go for the commerce angle....

Pretty much anymore all I use is Despotism -> Monarchy/Republic. Don't usually change guvs early. My last game, I waged a long and hard war in demo that came close to crippling my economy. Only the infusion of captured luxs and the fact I was 3 - 4 techs ahead of everyone else keep me in the black. I've used facism, and while I appreciate the faster workers and unit support, it's a pain to starve those cities down to get culture from them. Never used Communism, so I can't use that to compare with Demo. I prefer to have my core cities corruption/waste low and rush builld improvements later on.

Right now I'm playing a game on Regent, and I'm conquering the world - under Democracy. I've been doing that kind of thing since civ1, so I can't really say _how_ I do it, I just do. Just can't beat the high income, science, and production - and of course, cash rushing, which means I can rush tanks or infantry even in those far off size 1 cities, unlike communism - and rushing doesn't cripple my cities (rushing costs citizens, which reduces production and commerce.. bah)

Usualy I change from despotism to Republic and then to Democracy asap, when in peace. Thats because I am not a warmongering...
Republic / Democracy have a great advantage over the other kinds of Govs, concerning production/commerce/food. The problem is that they need some luxuries and city buildings to work fine (Library / Temple / Marketplace).
The main problem is the WW. When at war, depending on the speed you conquer (and maybe the culture of the AI, I am not sure), the WW could be a problem, forcing you to make peace or changing Gov type. Normally I Change to Fascism if I have a small empire or to a Commy if large.
Normally, when changing I use the Fascism, because:
1 when taking citys the pop size diminues (which is good because it lowers the risk of flips) and
2 You can rush production also reducing pop.

Thats my oppinion.

In a past i was always switching Despotism->Monarchy->Democracy(with no global wars)/Communism(if i wage continious wars).
I found out that Republic is not that bad for long wars either if you keep winning and don't lose cities. So now i switch to republic ASAP and usually stay on republic till very end of game. If my empire becomes too big i always switch to Communism. In C3C if you have big empire Communism beats democracy in science/money/shields simply because your cities don't have corruption. You can have an entire continent packed with city on a huge map and still have extremely low corruption in each and every city with communism, so in overal it's better than democracy.
Luck of money rushing is not a big deal because it happens at late industrial or early modern age and you can build practically any land unit in 2 or 3 turns.

If you understand how WW works (and there is a great but incomplete article on it in the WA) waging war as a democracy is no problem. I just finished a Monarch game where I accidentally got a domination victory while going for Spaceship. I was only about 5 techs away from the last SS part, and I had switched to democracy as soon as I got it back in the IA. That whole time I didn't have a single city go into disorder due to WW. I didn't even have to use the luxury slider. The only effect WW had was it took a few of my cities out of WLTKD for a few turns.

This was a very unusual game, in that I had at least six luxuries at all times, no matter who I was at war with, and I had managed to get the Sistine Chapel, which provided a huge boost. Even without such a good happiness position, though, waging war as a democracy is certainly doable. You just need to move quickly (cavalry) and watch your losses (bombing/artillery) and you'll be fine.

The real question is whether it is worth it to switch from Republic to Democracy. All you get is a 50% boost in worker speed, and a change in unit upkeep (positive or negative depending on the size of your empire and army). There is also a corruption change from "nuisance" to "minimal," but I've never noticed a huge practical difference there. Rule of thumb: Stay in republic until your army gets to be twice the size that you could support for free.

@Raio: Fascism is probably not the best way to prevent CF. You can starve a city down just by building workers and keeping all citizens as specialists (plus the judicious use of bombing/artillery before you take the city). Plus, in Fascism you get the xenophobia penalty which prevents culture accumulation. Don't get me wrong, if it's working for you that's great, but I think CF is generally considered one of Facism's great weaknesses.

Sorry if I rambled.

I don't have it the game in front of me, but I thought democracy gave you a production bonus too? I think republic just gives a trade bonus.

I've been playing on monarch lately and usually I just go monarchy asap, then switch to democracy. I've never had WW problems but then I've never had to declare war myself either... people always seem pissed at me

I've been thinking about changing to communism though in the late game after I have a foothold in an enemy's continent.

@ummm...

I agree that rushing workers / make specialists is a good way to reduce city pop under Fascism.
The option I described could be used if you really would like to keep the AI citys, because in one hand you reduce city pop and in other hand you complete the city improvements. Maybe I think this way because I am a "developer" and not a "warmongering ".
Another point, if I am not wrong, is that the xenophobic penality, is working if the number of AI citizens is equal or bigger than yours; is that correct?
Anyhow, also do not get me wrong, the game have several options in each situation and each one use them as felling well. Our goal is show to everyone how we more like in order to mutual enlarge options, no?

So...

Republic is almost always greater than Monarchy. Got it.

Democracy isn't always better than Republic. Got it.

Communism is awesome in large empires. Got it.

Fascism is good in small empires. Got it.

Are there any times where Monarchy beats Republic? Or does Republic keep Monarchy out no matter what the situation is?

@Khift

In earling times, to change to Republic you need to have some city improvements already made in some citys, or you could have a surprise (it happens to me sometimes...)
Im talkin' about marketplace / library and in middle age bank / university.
In this time, I believ Monarchy could work better if you can not develop that way.

Republic is almost always greater than Monarchy. Got it.

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Are there any times where Monarchy beats Republic? Or does Republic keep Monarchy out no matter what the situation is?

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True, but don't use Republic when you don't have more than 1 Lux, cities with growth potential and Markets in place. However, Monarchy rules when you go for the MilTrad path only (avoiding Education), with a Civ with Horse-based UU especially, and capture the GLib. And I typically would switch immediatedly if I happen to trade/find Monarchy really early while Republic is unknown - that easily means 100 turns of Despotism less - and adapt my strategy on that.

Democracy isn't always better than Republic. Got it.

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Republic is the best Jack-of-all-Trades. It's rarely worth it to switch from Rep to Demo (ironically, mainly if you have a huge Army to support; above a certain size, unit support in Demo is less).

Communism is awesome in large empires. Got it.

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Just play a game where the difference between Rep and Comm was 570gp corruption & 165gp units vs. 220/ zero....

Fascism is good in small empires. Got it.

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Not that convinced here...but it is great for the AI under that circumstances. Still haven't been in a situation where Fasc would have been worth it.
And I have been in situations where Feudalism was great (typically with SEA Civs)...

And btw, for the late-game war I usually prefer Rep/Demo (unless my Empire cries for Com because of size/ shape) - the ability to cash-rush while all the AIs whip and draft down their cities is worth 40% Lux rate for me.

Khift said:

So...

Are there any times where Monarchy beats Republic?

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Yes, there are such times.
1. When you research or trade Monarchy before republic. You want to get out of despotism as soon as possible.
2. Monarchy has much bigger free unit support and ZERO war weariness. So if you are a warmonger, no matter what other people say monarchy is still a better option (just easier to wage non-stop wars until communism is invented .)

Beware, corruption level can be quite high on monarchy so you will have to switch off monarchy to something else eventially anyway.

Ok, I think I have a good understanding of all but Feudalism and Fascism now. And those seem somewhat excess.

Basically, if I manage to take an adequate amount of space in Despotism and am ahead on my infrastructure, Republic is the way to go. If it looks like I'll have to war to consolidate myself, though, use Monarchy until well consolidated and then switch to Republic. When the Industrial Age rolls around, begin imperialising the world, and switch to Communism. Then stay there. Democracy is used only if you are at and will stay at peace, but have too large a military, which is rarely a problem anyways.

Now, when do Feudalism and Fascism come into play, then? Have they been experimented enough with yet?

Khift said:

Now, when do Feudalism and Fascism come into play, then? Have they been experimented enough with yet?

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I would suggest that if you play on very hard levels you usually are the one who falling behind in size and tech progress... and that would be a good example on switching to Fascism.

There is a great Ision's article in war academy -> Fascism vs. Communism. You probably want to read it.

as far as Feudalism goes.... I don't see any point to use that form of government, but that's just me. Other people can have different opinions on this matter

I usually play large maps and I've been known to have some long drawn out wars, once I discover Republic I stay in it (unless I"m religeous) and I have no problems with WW. The trick is to get as many lux's as you can, build all your happiness buildings (some times I neglect colluseum with no problems) a police station in every major city and/or uni sufferage and you should be fine, on especially long wars you might have to knock your luxury slider up an notch or two but you'll hardly notice in Rep. because of the $$ coming in

Fascism, no clue (or better, I read what people post about it, but I fail to see the benefits outside artificial scenarios, like 5CC or late Conquest victories).

But Feudalism is sometimes really good.
*You have a late Ancient/ early Medieval UU, and don't want to waste your GA in Despotism, nor do you want to research another 50 turns for an optional tech (and trading for the 2 Gov techs can be near impossible, when you economy is weak)
* Nearly all of your cities cannot grow above 6 without an Aquaduct. Typically, that means you play a SEA Civ or on Archipelago maps (or both).
*Your territory needs a lot of Workers (Jungle, Marshes), or Ships.

In short: The classical Viking tundra Scenario. Or Celts with a completely dry start. Or a Jungle hell.
Or any SCI Civ when you happen to advance before Mon/Rep is known, and get Feudalsim as free tech - but the later is not an argument for Feud, but against Despotism.

That said, Feudalism is clearly an exception (I go 70 Rep/25 Mon/ 5 Feud maybe), but can safe your neck. Well, Fascism when you're backwards on higher levels...for me that means 'trade, trade and trade', in other words Rep or Demo.