Warlord - Regent Transistion

Warlord to Regent. What do I need to learn?

Ok, I admit it I've played regular Civ3, PTW and C3C on Warlord almost exclusively. I truthfully don't usually play for the fastest win possible. I like to play a lot of culture with some military action thrown in to take care of annoying neighbors. Mostly Domination and Culture wins with a few Starship victories. I usually don't map out the victory path beforehand and like to try to have everything (strong miltary, big cities, workers, expansion and of course the coolest wonders).

I'm tired of the "easy" wins and want to step it up a notch. I've played almost all the Civ's before and am doing ok in my first Regent game as "Babalyon". I've read most of the recent advise articles and found the ones on early growth and worker micro-management to be the most valuable. Here are my biggest hurdles I've found so far:

- Early "unhappiness" before I can get temples built.
- War Happy civilizations including English, Aztec, and Maya. Even when I cultivated "polite" reputations, they would still declare war on me. Is this just because I was in the lead or what?
- Republic and democracy 'war weariness' comes on so fast (maybe 10 turns) even though I haven't lost any cities.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
Steelex

There really isn't much of an answer to the first problem you stated other than that which you already know. Just try to garrison units in cities with the most unhappiness problems and get those luxuries connected to your cities ASAP.

I too have problems with Civ's declaring war on me, especially early in the game. (Those freakin Aztecs...every time, I swear). I really can't help you much there, you just gotta be ready when it happens. Make sure you have defensive units in those border cities as well as offensive ones. I find that my best defense is often a strong counterattack.

Thirdly, check out the War Academy. There's a fantastic article which describes the finer points of War Weariness. It's not just your cities that matter, there are several other factors involved. For example, much of the weariness I find comes from ending turns with units in the enemy's territory.

Part of the problem with the pre-temple unhappiness is that you are used to 3 content citizens. Now it's only 2. This makes it tough to have 3 citizens and still growing, yet keeping everyone happy. The solution? Hunt for luxuries and use the luxury slider.

The AI is very war-happy. The problem, I think, is that the AI is spontaneous (sp?) They walk into your territory and see that they can pillage your only source of Iron and can probably capture a city nearby, so they declare war and do that. Look for chokepoints (places with very few spaces that, for example, the AI must cross to get to you) and protect them well (maybe build some fortresses.) Protect your resources with strong units and adequately protect your cities (go crazy on your important cities, maybe 6 or more defensive units.) This gives almost no incentive for the AI to bother with you because there is no immediate benefit. The AI also demands a lot from you on those higher levels. My advise is to have a small amount of cash for the AI to take from you, and always trade maps/techs with them unless there's something you know that you do not want them to know (secret islands, something like Chivalry with the Japanese, etc.)

With war weariness, my advise is to stay away from those governments until you properly protect yourself (since the unit support on those is so low, you might not be able to support all that protection) or if you can build a lot of courthouses and police stations.

Welcome to the forums, Steelex.

your first point is probably one of the most noticable difference on higher levels. Just learn to use the luxury slider, and also be aware of military police. I will often have my luxury slider at 40-50% (on emperor level, which you only get one content citizen) while I am trying to build a ton of settlers.

Second point, I suggest to attack them first, but that is me. If I don't attack, then I will either build up a useless army, or I will have to hope the AI doesn't declare war on me. The AI loves to declare war on weaker opponents.

Third point, read the war academy article. I usually do fine in 20 turn wars (unless the AI is overpowering me) in republic. The main point is that ever time you defend, even if successful, you gain WW points, so try to be the one attacking (and be successful at it).

collin_stp said:

The main point is that ever time you defend, even if successful, you gain WW points, so try to be the one attacking (and be successful at it).

Click to expand...

Very good point!
The best trick (imo) to avoid WW, is to use A LOT of artillery units. When the AI sends their stacks towards your territory, pound them down to 1-2 HP, and kill them with ease. Those you can't kill (for example if you don't have enough offensive units) will most likely retreat, as their HP is too low to attack your cities. One thing that boosts WW is losing units (and especially cities!!), so always carry artillery with you!
I play on Emperor atm, and I never go to war until I've built about 9 Catapults and 5-6 Archers/Horsemen/Swordsmen - and I can often make it to the Middle Ages with losing only 2-5 offensive units, even though I completely wipe out my neighbours before that time I NEVER attack any units without bombing them first - even a lone Spearman in the open in the Industrial Age gets redlined before I attack with my Cavarly.

The biggest problem with using a lot of bombardment units in the Ancient Age is support cost - if you don't have a lot of cities you have to be very careful with your budget!
I normally keep building units until I've decreased the science slider to 0% and have 0gpt, at which point I go to war. If you don't lose to many units, and don't wipe out the enemy completely, you should be able to squeeze A LOT of techs out of them when discussing peace!

I completely agree with Berreren. You can also read the monarch to emperor artciel in the war academy. I was already on emperor when it was written, but I'm sure it would have helped my transition.

Also, why exactly are "Babylon" and "Unhappiness" in quotation marks?

If you're having war weariness problems at Warlord level, I suspect you are doing one of two things:

1) Not acquiring enough luxuries
2) Not building enough marketplaces, to maximize the effect of luxuries.

I generally find Republic to be a pretty durable government for all but the most extreme war-mongering.

On bombarding units and defense: The problem I have with catapults in the defense is concentrating enough to be decisive. (Railroads eliminate this problem.) I find it easier to build fast units (horses/knights) and use skirmishing tactics in the defense. This makes it easier to shift to an offensive when the invading army is worn down...

scoutsout said:

On bombarding units and defense: The problem I have with catapults in the defense is concentrating enough to be decisive. (Railroads eliminate this problem.) I find it easier to build fast units (horses/knights) and use skirmishing tactics in the defense. This makes it easier to shift to an offensive when the invading army is worn down...

Click to expand...

Yes, fast-moving units are also good for wounding enemy forces.
I just got Conquests a couple of weeks ago, and they must've done something to the bombardment calculations! Back in vanilla CivIII, I never built Catapults cause only 1 of 10 would hit, but in Conquests the ratio is closer to 7 of 10

I normally divide my catapults into 2 groups, which I keep in the cities closest to my 'most angry' neighbours, to always have units ready in the area in the event of a war. Remember, when bombing stacks, it'll take the units with highest defense value first - once those are yellow/red-lined, you should be able to kill'em off, and once all the defenders are gone, the remaining attack forces are a piece of cake - even if they have full health (atleast in the AA/MA).

Like scout I like to use skirmishing tactics for war . You should be OK
in Republic if your civ is properly developed, but you may prefer Monarchy
if you are having alot of trouble with WW. Anyway, keep reading the forums
and soon you will prevail . And Welcome!

Thanks for the great ideas everyone. I use the luxury slider, but usually as a last resort; instead I try using it earlier. I usually try to keep 2 units in all cities except front line ones, but will up that for the important ones. The point about protecting strategic resources is also interesting. I noticed in Conquests that the resource placement is much more random and I now frequently have to go searching for that first iron, saltpeter or rubber. The other civiliztiations did make military pushes towards those items so I'll consider building fortresses and a few units in them.

I usually play continents standard; any thoughts on my next civ to try (I've been enjoying all the Ision articles)?

Try the Indians. Use horses and then war elephants for a mobile defense. Feel the fun of commercial.

Definitely use the lux tax -- especially in the beginning. Lux tax MM until, oh say, 1250 BC or so, is a critical part of the early game. Keep your citizens working and growing so you can keep your expansion in very high gear. Peal off workers if your town is way too big to keep content with MP and/or lux tax and/or connected luxury items.

Arathorn

Steelex said:

Warlord to Regent. What do I need to learn?

Click to expand...

I've recently made this move, and it's a lot harder. I always end up near either the Aztecs or Rome, both of whom seem to have it in for me. There's not much you can do about the Aztecs, but one trick I've learned to rely on in Regent is resource denial. To pull this off you'll need 1. good scouting 2. a lot of settlers 3. a fairly quick discovery of iron working and the wheel and 4. a lot of culture. Try to put a city with two spearmen in it on or next to every iron or horse resource on the map. Aim for hilltops because of the defense bonus. Do this even if the city will be cut off from your empire or of minimal value due to lousy terrain, and even if it makes you miss out on a few good spots. If you can take and hold all the iron, noone but the Iroquoi can build a unit with more than 2 attack. If you control all the iron and most of the horses in your region, your neighbors won't be strong enough to attack you. Of course they still might try, so you'll need a strong army anyway, but they won't be able to do much damage until gunpowder.

Now if a rival builds a city whose territory claims a horse or iron, just put a city on the other side of the resource, build a road to it very quickly, garrison it heavy, get a temple up as soon as possible and the borders will move, giving you the resource, often already roaded. I think the AI is often slow to start building cultural buildings in new cities.

War Weariness I can't advise you on, never been a sucker for representative govts.

Hi all

Earlier today I used the "cultural assault" that a4phantom described early in a regent game on a tiny map to get the only iron resource in sight. Used random for most of the world settings, and this must have been islands and minimal land. Computer put me at the south end of a thin strip of land mountainous at that, with Japan about 8 tile to the north.

Knew that I had to fight my way out or I would have no room to expand. Built barracks right away and archers as fast as possible (in the only two cities I could fit on the strip of land), and got to Japan before he made many spearmen. Took Kyoto and destroyed the second city.

China was on the other side of Japan, thought I would take the archer army and keep rolling. China had spearmen and I made no progress. Used my spearmen to pillage China's mines, and started looking for iron. Found in in the city limits of Boston, on the border with China.

So I built a city inside the Chinese border (with no shield production, they were in no position to resist) up against the American border where the iron was. Filled it with a spearman and three archers, and set to building a temple. My conquests had given me many captured workers, so I used them to add to the city pop and then sacked two pop to rush the temple.

As predicted, the temple culture expansion pushed the border right up against Boston, giving me the iron, two mines and roads on all three squares. It must have been the only iron accessable by land because I was able to wipe out China and America (I was India) with swordsmen by about 600 AD for a 3900 point conquest victory.

The key to the cultural attack was using workers to rush the temple to completion. Otherwise at one shield per turm (due to the waste) it is slow going

da_V

Steelex said:

Thanks for the great ideas everyone. I use the luxury slider, but usually as a last resort; instead I try using it earlier.

Click to expand...

Yes, I've been lurking here for a few weeks and the froum has helped me move up from warlord to monarch quite quickly. One thing I've learned is that the luxury slider should be your first resort with entertainers being your last resort, the amount you gain from the citizens being productive outweighs the loss caused by increasing luxuries.

If you have the time check out the 'Training Day Experiment' the Succession Games forum, it's a long read (read it in chunks) , but full of tips for us relative newbies and includes a very succesful early war to take out a potentially aggressive neighbour.

Just some additions to early unhappiness.

In expansion phase city size (and with that unhappiness) can be controlled by building settlers / workers in cities that are about to go unhappy without the lux-slider or entertainers, even with 2 units for Military Police. Since you never can have enough workers this approach can even be maintained once expansion phase is over.

With at least 3 luxes available Marketplaces are much more effective in controlling happiness than Temples etc.

IF the lux slider is used or a specialist created doen't forget to check if that city is at optimal performance. For example, most of the time when a specialist is needed it not neccesseraly should be an entertainer, but can be assigned as taxman or scientist. The Governor isn't smart enough to make those changes.

Beam said:

With at least 3 luxes available Marketplaces are much more effective in controlling happiness than Temples etc.

Click to expand...

Do luxeries make 1 person happy per type available? And do marketplaces increase the effect by 50%, rounding up?

a4phantom said:

Do luxeries make 1 person happy per type available? And do marketplaces increase the effect by 50%, rounding up?

Click to expand...

With a marketplace in a city, the first two luxuries each give 1 the next two luxuries (3 and 4) each give 2 ; the next two (5 and 6) give 3 ; and the last two each give 4 . Thus a city with a marketplace will have the following:

# luxuries # --------# luxuries ----#

1 ----------1------------- 5---------- 9
2 ----------2------------- 6----------12
3 ----------4------------- 7----------16
4 ----------6------------- 8----------20

rcoutme said:

With a marketplace in a city, the first two luxuries each give 1 the next two luxuries (3 and 4) each give 2 ; the next two (5 and 6) give 3 ; and the last two each give 4 . Thus a city with a marketplace will have the following:

# luxuries # --------# luxuries ----#

1 ----------1------------- 5---------- 9
2 ----------2------------- 6----------12
3 ----------4------------- 7----------16
4 ----------6------------- 8----------20

Click to expand...

Cheers mate. What about in a city without a marketplace?

a4phantom said:

Cheers mate. What about in a city without a marketplace?

Click to expand...

One happy citizen per lux type. No more. Any town capable of growing past size 6 really needs a market, unless you just don't have any luxuries...

scoutsout said:

One happy citizen per lux type. No more. Any town capable of growing past size 6 really needs a market, unless you just don't have any luxuries...

Click to expand...

Wow. From now on I am instantly disbanding any artillery unit that destroys a marketplace!