UN - Union Nations should have more uses???

I have this in mind for a few days. What new uses should have the UN in cIV?

heres a thread that I find in Civ III - conquests:
more uses for UN

Sugestões, sorry suggestion, commetens?

Anymore uses and it's too powerful. It's already the most powerful wonder in the game. Maybe something like everyone could vote on arbitrary peace?

Most powerful wonder??? It only act over diplamatic vitory!!! (in Civ 3 & inc). I don't understand what you say about it?

Maybe it could create a peace force, if your civ is at peace with the others.

It is the only wonder that can end the game.

regarding more uses, I have read the threads and none of those options apeal to me yet.

Obviously if he's saying that the UN should have more uses, then he's implying it would no longer end the game. (If the game is already over when you build it, then how would you use it?)

I agree with both of you -- ending the game is a cop out, and it should have other, more interesting uses.

Forcing peace is the first thing that comes to mind. Forcing a war against a "criminal" nation is another. But the game would need more complicated concepts, like economics and human rights, for the UN to have any function like that.

I was not implying the the UN is a cop out, I was just saying that I think Tomoyo thinks that it is the most powerful wonder because it is the only one that can end the game.

Personally, I am fine with it as is unless someone comes up with some suggestion/idea that sounds good to me. So far, the ideas I have heard need some tweaking before I would like to see them implemented.

the problem is, it doesn't have any power in real life. no one won any kind of "diplomatic victory" when it was set up. not much else changed either. it should be cut from civ4.

Not true. It shouldn't be cut at all, just the Diplomatic Victory condition made more difficult. The United Nations, once built, should provide some sort of support for weaker nations, discourage warfare, give an economic bonus to members, etc. (Not all nations will join; some may choose to remain separate. Members vote on new admittance.)

Let's see:

The United Nations has been constructed in New York! America plays host to the very first meeting of the UN. England, France, Russia, China, India, Zululand, etc. are invited. (Building player chooses who to invite to the first meeting. Afterwards, all members can invite other nations. The UN meets every three [?] turns. Perhaps Diplomatic Victory becomes available a while after the UN is built.)

---

England joins the United Nations and sends a delegate to New York.
France joins the United Nations and sends a delegate to New York.
Russia refuses to participate in the United Nations.
China joins the United Nations and sends a delegate to New York.
India refuses to participate in the United Nations.
Zululand refuses to participate in the United Nations.

---

England has invited Germany to the second convening of the United Nations! Germany offers to send a delegate to New York.

America approves Germany's membership.
France approves Germany's membership.
China approves Germany's membership.

Germany is now a part of the UN! The Germans send a delegate to New York.

---

France has invited Byzantium to the second convening of the United Nations! Byzantium refuses to participate in the United Nations.

---

America has invited the Aztecs to the third convening of the United Nations! The Aztecs offer to send a delegate to New York.

England refuses to admit the Aztecs.
France refuses to admit the Aztecs.
China refuses to admit the Aztecs.
Germany approves the Aztecs' membership.

The Aztec bid for membership has been turned down.

---

Russia has launched an invasion of the UN-member-nation of Germany! What should the United Nations do? (All members vote)

( ) Attack Russia.
( ) Implore Russia to withdraw its troops and threaten hostilities if they are not removed.
( ) Send economic and strategic aid to Germany, but do not enter the war directly.
( ) Ignore the Russian invasion.

(Nations which do not agree to the first choice would obviously not declare war on Russia. Options two and three affect all members equally, whether voted for or against.)

---

England refuses to participate in the United Nations.
France joins the United Nations and sends a delegate to New York.
Russia refuses to participate in the United Nations.
China refuses to participate in the United Nations.
India refuses to participate in the United Nations.
Zululand refuses to participate in the United Nations.

Due to insufficient support, the first attempt to establish a union of nations has failed. (In five years, America [builder of UN in this case] can invite other nations again.)

Cuiv that was a buetiful example...I hope Firaxis actually stops by once in a while....

That was a pretty good example. However, I reserve the right to make my final decision once I see it during game play

Some other stuff about the UN:

Automatically distributes 10% of all member's incomes equally among its members. (America, England, France, China and Germany are members. All but Germany make 100 gpt, while Germany makes 10 gpt. Thus, 10% of each's income [10 gpt from America, France, etc. and 1 gpt from Germany] is pooled and then distributed. Builder of UN keeps overflow. Thus, final incomes: Ame [built UN]: 99 gpt, Eng/Fra/Chi: 98 gpt, Ger: 17 gpt.) This gives some sort of balancing figure to help smaller civs (just a thought).

Also, perhaps Fascisms should be automatically kicked from the UN and unable to join.

Cuivienen said:

Some other stuff about the UN:

Automatically distributes 10% of all member's incomes equally among its members. (America, England, France, China and Germany are members. All but Germany make 100 gpt, while Germany makes 10 gpt. Thus, 10% of each's income [10 gpt from America, France, etc. and 1 gpt from Germany] is pooled and then distributed. Builder of UN keeps overflow. Thus, final incomes: Ame [built UN]: 99 gpt, Eng/Fra/Chi: 98 gpt, Ger: 17 gpt.) This gives some sort of balancing figure to help smaller civs (just a thought).

Also, perhaps Fascisms should be automatically kicked from the UN and unable to join.

Click to expand...

I don't really like this concept. I am not a real fan of the redistribution of wealth.

I agree with Sealman, I don't see much connection between the game UN and the real-world UN. I'm waiting for the game to include such real-life examples as:
"UN hosts emergency breakfast to discuss crisis in (country)" - no effect on gameplay whatsoever
"UN scandal" - your corruption increases because your gold is going straight into the pockets of UN officials
"UN resolution" - your democracy is reprimanded by a cavalcade of nations led by dictators and thugs, who demand that you pay them more gold
Sorry, am I being too much of a cynical American??

sealman said:

I don't really like this concept. I am not a real fan of the redistribution of wealth.

Click to expand...

Keep in mind that China, France and England lose only 2gpt from this, and America loses only 1 gpt. By the time the United Nations is built, such small numbers are insignificant, though Germany's improved income is significant. (Redistribution comes from Net Income, not Gross Income.) The percentage could be made smaller, maybe 5%, but something should represent globalization and this is as good as any.

Perhaps the UN votes on establishing a World Trade Organization before this redistribution happens among members. While the real WTO acts differently, increasing the wealth of the rich and increasing the poverty of the poor, this is the WTO in a more perfect world.

My idea of globalization is the image of my tanks rolling though London, New Dehli, Moscow, ect...

Sorry, my war wonger tendencies sometimes show themselves at the wrong moments.

(I did not list Babylon above because by the time the UN is built, one of us is LOOOONNNNGGGGG Gone )

ing this because I think it has potential and Firaxis should read it.

Cuivienen said:

Russia has launched an invasion of the UN-member-nation of Germany! What should the United Nations do? (All members vote)

( ) Attack Russia.
( ) Implore Russia to withdraw its troops and threaten hostilities if they are not removed.
( ) Send economic and strategic aid to Germany, but do not enter the war directly.
( ) Ignore the Russian invasion.

Click to expand...

I really like this idea. I think there should be advantages to whoever builds the wonder also.

Of course this would only work in games where there were still quite a few countries remaining. If there were only 2 or 3 left, there wouldn't be much use.

UN can't be more powerful.

Look at the reality.

Sorry I didn´t see this thread... I put my ideas here.... The UN should really become the model for modern international politics, which is really lacking in the game, and therefore your only real option if you dont take the cop out of the diplomatic win is warmongering, which is very unrealistic (though I dont want realism to override fun I think it could be more balanced.)

here is the thread, its the first post (i got into spies in the second.)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=1976634#post1976634

I think that by the time I can build the UN the game has been decided in over 90% of the games I play. I like having it as a way to end the game quickly when I've already won and as a deterent for me being too ruthless.

No, I don't like the idea. Unless major changes are made to the game to actually have a modern era that lasts, then I really don't see the point.