RBC 14J-Riders of the Plains

DeceasedHorse

Prince
Joined
Nov 25, 2003
Messages
535
Location
O.C. in the Summer,WU in the winter
Introduction: We play as the Agricultural and Commercial Iroquois. For generations we have roamed the plains of our homeland, but the white man comes to take them from us. Across the sea, great empires send great hordes of braves in search of plunder and land. To the south, the old empire of the Maya has been displaced but the bloodthirsty Aztecs, who seek to enslave and sacrifice all that they can in their mad quest to please their gods. The tribes of the north must band together if any are to be saved.

Start:
Irostart.JPG


We have called a great council in Salamanca. The fate of our people and perhaps all peoples must be decided.

Notes:
-We begin with four regular mounted warriors, a settler, and a worker along with our size 1 capital.
-Tech-wise, we have to usual Native American techs for the scenerio, along with Horse-Back Riding which enables us to build more Mounted Warriors.
-Our UU is quite powerful, but unlike the other american tribes DOES NOT enslave! This means the traditional route to victory, OCC utilizing a mass-sacrifice of captured slaves is somewhat impractical, and doesn't really fit with the over all theme.

Right now, I'd like to get some discussion going on the possible route to victory, difficulty level, ect.

Tenetive Roster (based on sign-ups before CaesarAugustus vanished off the face of the earth):
DeceasedHorse
RomeotheMonk
6thgentexan
Open
Open
 
Checking in. This is a different mod than the original, I am not sure if Domination is enabled. If domination is not enabled, we may need to use our mounted warriors to kill toughies, then use Q-bows to enslave for us. Can we get Q-bows?
Another question, which version is this? I need to know where to install the mod.
 
If you use my mod: I didn't change anything for the Victory conditions, thus you also can get SGLs. However, changing Domination levels is easily done - what are the default levels here?
@romeo: The version of the editor/ the scenario doesn't matter.

And, since I currently have a little less work then expected, I sign up here; I just need a laid-back SG, strict 24/48 is impossible. And 1.22 is needed :rolleyes:

IMHO, plain simple Domination without further restrictions sounds good. Returning treasures, why not? With our traits, and the lowered corruption in this Scenario, we should be able to grow really strong, even with the late FP.
I've played one game where the AI Iros where clearly the runner-up in power and VPs, they even reached Tech parity with the Euro Civs...


Usually, I'd suggest DG, but in this Conquest, even Deity should work.

Edit:
Just found the correct original post
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=68410&page=17&pp=20

I'd suggest 40% Dom threshold. That requires a little bit more than N America, maybe we can really set sail... :)
I do not want to edit any of the Victory settings except enabling Domination - except maybe reducing Conquest VPs by 50%?
Doubling treasures means Portugal will win without any chance to interfere, and unit kill doesn't matter.

I can update the Mod, and I'll have a close look if we can/cannot build all units.
 
Sounds good all around. I would suggest DG for level, (Euro's will tech quickly enough) and Domination with 35%. I would leave all other Victory conditions and VP alone. That way we could still win by VP, just by conquering lots of stuff. I also like to steal treasures when I played as Mesoamerican civs.
 
The proposal for Domination victory passes.


ROSTER
DeceasedHorse
RomeotheMonk
6thGenTexan
Doc Tsiolkoviski

It's a relatively short scenerio, so I'll leave it at four players for now.

Modifications:
Domination Victory set to 40%/40%
Quetzal Bowman-Iroquois can now build them. Defensive Bombard of 1
Longbow-Defensive Bombard of 1
Victory points of city capture set to 50xCity Size (Half Standard)
Domination and Conquest Victory types enabled.

Go ahead and make sure I did everything right.
 
Strategy talk:
I had a peek at the map in the editor, and I don't really like what I see...

- There's not a single Lux in all of N America (but Dyes around Chichen Itza, and Wines way S in Chile)
- There's not a single (land) food bonus in all of Eastern US/ Canada
- No Horses near Salamanca

I'd suggest the following strategy:
Expand like mad into the central plains, there are some really good city spots (moving the Palace?). Just secure the Iron/ Saltpeter in the Apalaches.
Leave the Europeans alone on the coast for a long time.
Once we have a better gov, overrun the Aztecs and Maya. Our UU is perfectly made for this - fast, cheap, and the ones left can be upgraded to the best attacker in this scenario.
Then, turn on the Europeans.
 
I agree with the General Strategy. I would like to put one city by virginia, but not on the coast. This will take away the best treasure spot in NA, and cannot be hit by Euro's. We will need to have settlers coming out of every size 3 or 4 city. Workers are going to be in short supply, but we should be able to tech rather quickly as long as we barb farm for extra gold.
 
RE: Doc-
I do not know what your mod entailed; I just opened the .biq Romeo PM'd me and fiddled with the settings.

All right, I'll play the first ten; no need to take more since this is a relatively short scenerio. Difficulty will be demigod; I've never actually successfully played at anything higher.

ROSTER:
DeceasedHorse
Romeothemonk
6thgen
DocT
 
Before you start. Does our starting city get to be size 3 to start? If not, please mod it so we have a prayer. All the other Meso civs have a size 3 capitol. The size 3 would seriously save our bacon early by allowing an extra settler, and is not an exploit in my opinion as the others have it.
I concur to sending our first settler west towards modern St. Louis.
 
CHANGES: Salamanca changed to size three, ball court added, starting culture set to 50 (like the rest of the mesoamerican capital cities).

Note: Yes, I’m being horribly stereotypical regarding native American culture, mixing up stuff from plains Indian tribes with those who inhabited the northeast. I’m just joking around, although I don’t think too many people here are that thin-skinned.

In the beginning of the year the white man called 1492, a new leader arose to lead our people after the Great Conclave held at Salamanca. His name was Chief Dead Horse, and he spoke of a new way for the Iroquois people:

“My people, I come to you having seen a vision of the future, a future that cannot be escaped. The white man comes with firewater, cannons, and travels in great ships. His weapons, they are not magic. They are no more magical then a bow, or a knife. It is not his weapons that will defeat us in the end it is his strategy. He will divide us, and conquer us. He brings with him deadly plagues that will decimate us; diseases that even the most skilled shaman cannot ward off. We must learn the secrets of the white man to survive the storm that is coming. We must have one leader, one master!”

Chief Dead Horse proclaimed himself to be the chief of all the Iroquois. Those who resisted fell before his braves, and a new order was established. His first task was to decide how to go about divining the secrets of the white devils. The shamans suggested that perhaps they could look into the Aztec and Mayan rituals of sacrifice and murder, to better appease the gods so they might smite the invaders. The Chief refused. “We are not crazy murderers. Besides, the gods help those who help themselves. Begin research on a system of writing.” One of the shamans though about asking how the chieftain knew what this ‘alphabet’ was, but decided that he did not want to get scalped and thought better of it.

Preturn: Salamanca starts with no improved tiles; the fastest I can get it to grow is seven turns, and that is with only 2 spt. Good think we are agricultural, or this would be even worse. Since we do not have access to an enslavement unit at this point, I decide to lead off with a worker, do in three. Our mounted warriors should be sufficient military for now. I change my mind on the alphabet research; we should be able to get it off the Europeans, and we will want to tech up to Quetzal Bowmen anyway, which means researching the non-tradable meso-american techs on our own. Start on Enslavement, due in 80 (We, uh, don’t have any income ). Two mounted warriors and the settler head west, one MW heads north and another south to hunt for some barb huts.

IBT: Barb archers show up to the north.

Turn 1: Attack barb camp up in Maine, killing one archer.

Turn 2: Our braves continue to ride across the plains. Northern MW kills another barb archer and disperses the camp, netting us 25g.

Turn 3: Salamanca builds worker, starts on settler. Our braves spot many white-cloaked warriors on their journey west.

Turn 4: Many white-cloaks are defeated and scalped.

Turn 5: And so it was in the year 1495 that the White Man arrived in our lands. The Spaniards found a city under the fog, approximately where modern-day Virginia is spotted. Some braves spot a great ship with orange sails as well. We smoke the peace pipe with the very…white Queen of the English peoples. She will not sell us knowledge of the alphabet or of masonry, but we can buy her map of the world for a copy of our own (that we somehow made without a written language, let alone map-making…) and 16 lumps of gold (no coins or anything, we don’t have currency yet). Perhaps we can get on this “Map-trading bandwagon”, although we are not sure what a wagon is, exactly. Somehow, we also have contact with all the other European civs; maybe the Spanish sold contacts around? Henry will give us knowledge of the Alphabet in exchange for our map and all of our gold; we will go bankrupt if we do this however. Instead, we sell our map to him for his map and 34 lumps of gold. Francis of the French gives us his map and 30 gold for our map. William the Orange gives us knowledge of the Alphabet in exchange for our map and 115 gold. Isabelle of the Spaniards gives us 20 gold and her map in exchange for our own. Not too bad; not the craziest set of map trades I’ve seen, but it’ll do for now. If we can make contact with the bloodthirsty freaks to the south first, we might be able to swing masonry or, hopefully, writing. Defeat three camps of white-cloaks, and seize 75 lumps of gold.

IBT: The white-cloaks finally grow enough of a spine to attack our braves. Our warrior in the north skillfully defeats their archers, promoting to elite. One of riders down in what I would guess to be Carolina or perhaps Georgia is badly wounded and forced to retreat.

Turn 6: Our braves discover the land of horses and wheat-this shall be our first new teepee base. Another camp of white-cloaks is defeated. The wounded band of riders retreats deeper south, spotting the Gulf of Not-Mexico. 155 Gold and our map get us Masonry from Henry the Fat. Generate 37 lumps of gold selling our maps that we magically make despite not knowing what a map is yet. Ah well.

Turn 7: Our warriors have almost reached the conflux of three great rivers. Generate 40 lumps of gold selling maps.

IBT: Elizabeth establishes an embassy in our capital.

Turn 8: We contact Monteczuma of the bloodthirsty Aztecs. Pick up 170 odd gold selling contact around. Can’t swing a tech deal. Sell alphabet to the Aztecs for 85 gold (market value). This gives me enough gold to swing a deal for either Currency or writing. Currency is of little immediate value; writing will let us get Map Making eventually so I choose it over currency. Buy it from the English for 245 gold and our map, and then recoup about 50 gold selling our maps around.

IBT: The British found Jamestown to the north of Salamanca, next to some beavers. Maybe we will culture flip them or something.

Turn 9: Found Niagara Falls at the center of mighty not-Mississippi-yet river. Starts on Granary (veto able! its at an awkward point since it is making 3spt and 5pt; it has access to a plains cow, a grassland wheat, some forests, and a bonus grass. Horses will be ours after a border expansion. Disperse a barb camp, more gold. We barely break even on map sales this turn; the White man has been busy.

Turn 10: MM Salamanca to finish its settler and grow in three turns. Hawk maps around.

Da Save
 
Good call on giving our Capital size 3; I played a couple of turns into the scenario without, and it was really painful. Especially since the Euros contacted the Mesos before me...
There's another good Grassland spot for a city between our 2 towns. And we need some Workers ASAP, to chop down Forrests.

I agree on a minimal research run, but Enslavement??? We'd need the Ball Courrts, without Luxuries...
And I'm not to iffy with mixing NA /Meso natives, but we shouldn't try to win this by culture; that is a bit too much IMHO.
 
What version are we playing this under?

I agree on stopping the current research. I agree with Doc. Q-bows are worse than our MW.I think we should Euro Tech and then steal if we absolutely want any native techs. Got it.
Should play later tonight, but have a doctors appointment so I am not sure how I will be feeling.
 
Actually Enslavement is required to research Ball Courts, which is why I picked it over ritual sacrifice.

What is the consensus regarding the mesoamerican wonders? The ToE clone might be pretty good.

EDIT: Version 1.22
I should have asked about this, but as far as I know (since I'm in SG's with everyone here anyway) we are all using this version anyway.
 
I am still of the opinion that our commercial/ag start will help us get the cash to steal.
I will change tech unless I hear otherwise from Tex. (last one to say anything).
Since I am in the Dakota's where there are still real tribes and Lakota MW's I will probably refer to them/us as Lakota.
 
No objections against Meso Wonders, but I think we cannot afford wonders at all. And I vote for stealing into the Meso tree; 80 turns sounds too long.
Actually Enslavement is required to research Ball Courts, which is why I picked it over ritual sacrifice.

Good catch, missed that.
 
After much looking and Debate, I left the research alone, as switching it really doesn't do anything for us. Marketplace research is going to be our goal until we can pointy stick later.
IHT: Trade writing to Aztecs for Maya contact and 42 gold.
Trade Maya Abet for 84 gold. Trade Maya contact and 200 gold to England for currency and WM. I then sold Maya contact and WM to everyone. I traded WM to everyone every turn and netted around 25 gpt.
IBT: nada
Turn 1: promote a brave lakota warrior in the paha sapa area (black hills)
IBT: nada
Turn 2: Move
IBT: barb kills a MW in Kentucky area. :mad:
Turn 3: Sal - settler to spear.
IBT: nada
Turn 4: clear barb camp
IBT: barb gives us our first elite
Turn 5: move
Turn 6: move
Turn 7: Trade currency to Maya for contact Inca and 5 gold. Trade Inca Abet for 110 gold. Get worker from INca for writing. Get Map making from England for WM, 390 gold and contact Inca. Trade INca contact for lotsa gold.
IBT: France builds sistenes.
Turn 8: sal spear to settler. Found Grand River around illinois.
Turn 9: Trade Wm and 290 gold to England for COL.
IBT: Magellans starts
Turn 10: Kill barbs and trade maps. Building a road to our future horses.
 
I've got it, but I will not be able to play until late on Sunday.
@ Doc, If you have time before then, go ahead.6gntxn

6gntxn
 
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