Classic GOTM 32 Spoiler 3: Start Modern age / end game submitted

This is the final spoiler for Classic GOTM 32: Aztecs

Tell us how you rounded-out your game.

As usual, screenshots a re welcome, but don't post any that show the locations of modern-age resources.

To participate in this spoiler, you must be researching a modern-age tech, or you must have completed and submitted your game.

1.27f

At the end of the Middle Ages we had just become a democracy and were getting ready to wage war on America. The Iroquois are gone already. We're planning to go for 100k, which I've only done once.

Industrial Age Tech Brokering

I entered the IA in 800AD with the discovery of Metallurgy. I gifted Korea (who was nearly defeated) into the IA and they got Nationalsim. Nothing I could do would get them to give it to me. Next, I gifted Russia into the IA for 11gpt and they get Steam Power. Russia wants Democracy, Navigation and 1330g. No deal. Finally, I gift Germany into the IA, getting Economics, and they also get Steam Power. This lowers the cost of Steam Power, so I get it from Russia for Democracy. Still trying to get Nationalism from Korea, and can't, even after gifting printing press so I could trade Democracy. Sell Democracy, Metallurgy, and Magnetisim to Spain for 113gpt, giving me enough gpt to research Electricity at 90%, taking 5 turns.

Germany destroyed Korea in 810AD and the knowledge of Nationalism is temporarily lost.

My golden age ends in 820AD.

American War

Start war on America in 850AD, wiping them out quickly by 910AD. I was trying very hard to get my second leader during this time, but no luck.

German War

Germany demands dyes in 980AD, I refuse, they declare war, breaking a bunch of gpt deals sending me into negative net income. Load up 4 elite knights to head for the German owned NE island. I bring Spain, Russia and Rome into the mix as allies for Medicine or lux. This should keep Germany busy. I also get Military Tradition from Spain so I can upgrade horses to cavalry. I start pillaging all the iron and saltpeter on my continent to build horses and realize St. Regis is sitting on saltpeter, so I rush a settler and the abandon it. To get an idea of just how light my military is, it takes 2 turns to pillage them all.

Land the first 4 elite knights in 101AD, take Ulsan the next turn, as well as Inchon, where I rush worker, harbor. Start barracks in Ulsan. Turn off science for 1 turn to get some gold for upgrades. I built Magellan's in 1030AD, which makes the ocean crossing a bit easier. Rush worker, barracks in Inchon. My frigate wandering by mainland Germany sees muskets defending their cities. Capture Cologne in 1040AD, connect SP on mainland and upgrade 3 vet knights to cav on island. Load up some more troops to head for the island.

I took Viroconium in 1050AD, finally getting my 2nd leader. Interesting note, Viroconium was size 1 with no culture expansion, but I was able to take it anyway. Maybe it had culture, but hadn't expanded yet? I set up my galleons to get the leader all the way back to a city in the heart of old America and rush a palace next turn. I've got a nice spot picked out only a few tiles from the city building Iron Works (Tepexpan). Rush palace in Coyotepec in 1060AD, and by 1070AD, my net income goes from +162 to +246 and my science increase drops Corporation from 6 turns to 5.

Finish Iron Works in Tepexpan in 1080AD, connect iron, and start a factory.

Take Cheju on mainland in 1090AD establishing my foothold on the main continent. Continue working my way across Germany, grabbing a fur in 1110AD to get back my 8th lux.

I finish TOE in 1120AD, taking Atomic Theory and Electronics, and finish my factory in Tepexpan. Coupled with IW I now have 87spt there. Start Smith's Trading which is due in 7 turns. Start breaking down the Berlin wall. Finally break through in 1140AD capturing the Pyramids AND Sun Tzu. At this point, I have 44 native workers, and more than that number of foreign workers, so I start joing some natives to my cities around the new palace to boost productivity and science even more. I'm also starting to cash rush cultural improvements wherever I can.

Germany builds Smith's in Leipzig in 1160AD, making it my next target. Switch to Bachs in Tepexpan.

Roman War

Rome drops 2 longbows next to undefended Cheju, and a pike next to Wonsan. Ask Rome to leave and they declare war, breaking alliance against Germany AND losing the silks I gave them for it. Get Russia and Spain to join in my fight against Rome as well. Still a few turns of our German Alliance left. Rome drops a long bow and MI next to Salamanca in 1180AD. I send the lone military unit on my continent (an infantry) to deal with them, and bring back a cav that was on a boat headed for Germany. Also take Leipzig with Smith's this turn, and finish Bachs next turn.

Peacefully end my alliances against Germany, as war wearriness kicks in. Finally wipe out the rest of Germany in 1230AD and can concentrate on Rome.

I'm 68 tiles from domination by 1255AD, so I decide to work on Rome. Take Rome in 1260ad, and work my way through Rome, finishing them off in 1270AD, forgetting that this would break my MAs with spain and Russia. Ah well.

Culture

From here on out, I'm flirting with the domination limit, something I've never done before, building culture and improving cities as fast as I can, while still learning tech quickly too. I want to get to the internet as fast as I can to grab the extra culture of research labs.

I enter the Modern Age in 1335AD. Gifting Russia into MA gives them Computers which I can't afford, so I go for Rocketry, which is the quickest tech I can learn. Note at this point that I could probably have pulled off a diplo win in about 1370AD.

Spanish War

Spain breaks our ROP and attacks us in 1355AD, taking 2 cities, along with Smith's. Losing an extra 150gpt now. Ally Russia against spain for Oil. Start razing Spanish cities. Meanwhile I finish Rocketry, and Russia still won't trade with me. ARGH! Go for Ecology next. Continue razing Spanish cities, bringing my 3rd leader, send him home to rush the internet when it's available. Trade Ecology and Rocketry for Computers and Sanitation in 1390AD, start Miniturization. Switch palace to SETI in capital, and complete it same turn. Finish Mini and rush Internet in 1420AD. Start Palace in Tepexpan as prebuild for UN. Finish Fission, start Free Artistry to allow Shakespeare. Finish FA in 1470AD, start Genetics, finish UN, start Shakespeare. Finish Genetics, allowing two more wonders, and start Synthetic Fibers. At this point it's 5:30AM and I go to bed, knowing my wife will not be happy the next day.

Ooops

Well, looks like I shouldn't have gone to bed. I forgot to check my domination limit and went over by one tile in 1520AD, winning by Domination.

Ah well, not sure I want to do that again. Seems to be a lot of work to keep away from Domination.

Final ingame score 5908.

Open PTW 1.27f

Was I the only one who jumped the palace before 2000BC? I felt the settler factory and warrior/worker factory resulting from having the palace in the west justified abandoning my original capital (1SE of the the start). The factory required too much additional improvement if not the capital and the warrior/worker factory may have been impossible as a 2nd ring town. The workers seemed to be needed at that point as it was evident there was a lot of jungle around.

The Game Entering IA I played a 20K Culture game as I had never done one before and am trying all the victory conditions as a learning exercise. The 20K City was located 1NE of the start location and wasn't founded until 1575BC since I was thrashing around with the palace. I entered IA in 1260AD. My 1250AD save shows 4300 Culture with 65cpt. The starting continent is all Aztec. I have the island NE of the other continent as well and have just taken a German town.

The game is basically won at this point and I'm fishing for GLs to rush culture and finish the game.

The AI Cheats I'm getting a fairly large counter-attack from the Germans and decide to heal my troops in the captured city. The very first turn a flip is availabe to the AI, it flips the town taking my 18 unit attacking force.

Now, I have decided that this culture flipping garbage is a poorly disguised way for Firaxis to cheat. It's the exact same thing as Civ2 swooping in and awarding itself a Wonder you're 1 turn away from getting. And I have further decided that I will throw any game that cheats excessively into the virtual trash, exactly as it deserves.

So, irrespective that I will win the game despite the flip, I immediately exit the game and abandon it. I WILL NOT play a game that cheats. I'll continue to play Civ (until I've had enough of the cheating, I presume), but any particular game that cheats to this degree gets dropped immediately. I endure the "annoying flips" with the rest of you. (Ever notice how flips are always described as annoying.) As a game developer that's sure what I want...my customers describing an aspect of the game as annoying. And I endure questionable battle results without complaint. (Does anyone really believe the published offensive/defensive strengths of naval units, e.g.) But this degree of taking I won't endure.

You may say, Oh, Gee! That's just really bad luck. Or...Oh, Gee! You shouldn't have put all those troops in a captured town. Or...Oh, Gee! You should have established your own town to heal troops. Or any number of things. All of which gloss over what is, to me, excessive and unacceptable behaviour of the AI.

Folks, I find it hard to believe that you all have apparently accepted this "feature" as reasonable. Firaxis is completely disrespectful of the time it takes to learn and play the game when they do things like this. Swooping in and taking stuff is pathetically inept as well.

I'm happy to start a thread somewhere else (any suggestions?) to debate this if anyone is interested. I do think it's an appropriate discussion vis-a-vis GOTM.

BTW, with plenty of Civ-time on my hands since I threw the GOTM game away, I tried SirPleb's AW-Diplo game. At the end gifting cash, MAs vs the UN vote rival, ROPs, trade World Maps. WOW!! It worked. War with everyone for the entire game and the Civs went Furious to Polite so fast I could hardly believe it! I don't understand quite how this happens. Perhaps there is some sort of War Weariness with the AI? SirPleb?

1.27 open

1510 enter IA with American troops in our territory and he won't move them, and our rep is already shot so, dow on American breaking 20 turn peace deal.
Also, establish an embassy in germany (tech leader), and steal a tech (steam power)

1515 Destroy the Americans

1520 I notice that of ones who know steam power, only spain has coal (just one) so russia and germany don't have any. Korea has two but is early MA and same with Rome.

1550 ibt Tacitus's most powerful nations list: Aztecs, germans, spanish, russians, koreans, Romans

1560 steal industrialization from Germany; trade industrialization to Russia for Democracy and WM

1570 ibt germany demands coal - refused (no war - but we're getting prepared for war with Germany)

1620 ibt Russia lands 2 knights in our territory

1625 demand russia remove troops-she declares war-kill her knights then sign mmp with germany (cause Russia already has one with her) establish embassy in spain and sign MMP for 311 gold (now sit at home and wait for Russia to attack then send my stack of doom to her)
ibt Germany and Spain dow on Russia - the people love us for our cleverness and build an addition to our palace



1630 wake our stack of doom (meant for germany - but plans change)
ibt apparently Russia struck alliances with korea vs spain and rome vs Germany

1640 ibt spain lands troops on our continent - no reason to do so (we need a back-stab smilie)



1645 demand she remove her troops-she dow on us
we dow on Rome so germany won't get her coal

ibt spain captures Huexolta (valiantly defended by a 3 hp jaguar warrior - almost won against spain's conquistador)

1650 Recapture our town, stole corporation from Germany

1655 capture pisa (no resistors) and rush temple (has harbor); capture Sverdlovsk

1665 capture sevastopol; captured ravenna

1680 capture odessa
ibt ger & kor signed peace treaty

1685 capture Kiev with Sistine's

1690 capure Tblisi
ibt Tblisi captured by spanish (killed one of our armies)

1695 retake Tblisi, capture Pyongang (bye bye korea), capture Moscow. Russia left with one city on island. Sign MA against Russia with Rome and Gift horses and iron to them hoping they will finish her off for us. Trade Germany 456g for ecomonics ibt Spanish forces destroyed Russia.

1700ibt lost 3 russian cities to spain (they must be in a GA as even with my other continent producing cavs, I can't keep up with her troop production)

1705 peace with spain (2 turns before MMP would expire) after retaking one city; we received 380 g for peace.

1735 Researched Medicine (on path for ToE) and trade Spain medicine for refining +587g

1770 stole replaceable parts from Spanish (only had 1g left so need to build treasury to upgrade musketmen) Actually was hoping to fail and have spain declare on us. Now will build treasury and upgrade before dow

1772 After one turn of a boring game while waiting we check with our military advisor and we're strong compared to Spanish. We will demand removal of her troops from our territory so hopefully she will dow on us. (it worked) By the end of the year, we have purged our territory of Spanish trespassers and have taken Moscow and Tblisi from the Spanish (they are the two former Russian cities she took from us earlier that we couldn't get back before peace)

1774 capture Smolnesk with Universal Suffrage!

1776 capture Woson

1780 capture pamplona; capture cuidad de la luna

1784 ibt cuidad de la luna flipped took some healing units, but won't cripple us, will just delay us 1 or 2 turns

1786 recapture cuidad de la luna, only garrison with 1 troop, leave others outside blocking border with spain
ibt somehow a single cav gets through and recaptures it -- then Germany captures it (those two have been at war since 1625)

1788 send troops on to barcelona and capture it and get Newton's ,
but it's in a totally unproductive city

1790 Germany is in danger of getting too many of "our" Spainish cities so we cancel rop with germany, hoping spain will recapture cuidad de la luna and we can retake it (doesn't work but Germany doesn't get anymore Spanish cities)

1792 capture zaragoza

1796 capture toledo

1798 capture madrid (and spain's rubber) It's been tough on our cavs going up against infantry.

1800 capture valencia

1802 capture murcia
ibt zarazoga disposed our governor - lost 1 cav

1804 recapture zarazoga

1806 ibt complete ToE, culture expansion in 1 city triggering a Domination win
Firaxis score 3820 and we are known as Montezuma the Magnificent (even with the blunder in the Middle Ages)

Note: Watching the replay at the end of the game, it looks like Germany had declared an early war on Korea and captured their capital, which crippled them in my game.

Open

Middle Ages (links back to AA)

Sadly, I have no notes for my IA and beyond, as, as previously mentioned, I'd decided the game was a lost cause and I was going to just play on until the inevitable dogpile on me or AI SS launch.

I entered IA sometime in the 1700s, I think. About this time I made peace with the Iroquois, and concentrated on pulling myself up by the bootstraps. My name was dirt, nobody would sell me tech, so I had to research. After all, with #1 Pop and Land, why shouldn't a ton of libraries and unis make some difference?

I concentrated on core techs only. I had half an age to pull back and sidetracks (Nationalism aside) were unwanted.

Luckily, Rome was falling behind the pack, and after I overtook them, I filled in the gaps. One such gap was Democracy, and I switched immediately. Suddenly I'm on 4-turn research, and closing in on Electronics (I'd not seen any Hoovers build messages). I started my pre-build too late, though, and the Koreans got it - but if I'd been on my toes, I should've got there.

The Romans and Germans were killed off by Korea, leaving two continents, with two Civs each.

Then came the biggest turning point of my game: I researched Refining, and quickly came to a fantastic conclusion:

The Iroquois Do Not Have Oil!

Knowing the AI's rather lax attitude towards tradning Luxes and Resources between themselves, I was pretty sure Wang Kon wouldn't have let Hiawatha have any oil. Suddenly, I had the ability to build tanks and bombers, and war was no longer a worry for me. And the Iroquois obliged with a DoW just before I entered the Modern Era.

I mistakenly attacked an Iroquois unit beyond their borders, and triggered an MPP with Spain - annoying, as Spain had been one of my better friends. When Korea joined in later on, I was at war with all three remaining Civs, and had switched to Communism because of the worsening WW.

The only Spanish and Korean I saw were naval units, which were greeted by my bombers.
The Iroquois army was pounded into dust by my bombers, and my tanks advanced on his cities.

And thus endeth the Industrial Age.

Neil.

HighDesert said:

BTW, with plenty of Civ-time on my hands since I threw the GOTM game away, I tried SirPleb's AW-Diplo game. At the end gifting cash, MAs vs the UN vote rival, ROPs, trade World Maps. WOW!! It worked. War with everyone for the entire game and the Civs went Furious to Polite so fast I could hardly believe it! I don't understand quite how this happens. Perhaps there is some sort of War Weariness with the AI? SirPleb?

Click to expand...

Signing MAs/MPP with all the civs against UN rival, removes bad reputation. You can't lose vote when you set those MAs. That is actually bug. I think SirPleb is trying without MAs.

[PTW] 1.27f - Open Class

At the end of the Middle Ages, I had almost finished the Koreans.

Industrial Age


1490 AD - Korea is gone. They already had Nationalism but I couldn't get anyone to trade. I suffered 3 or 4 flips before I could get the island city. It seems Superman lived there. I lost 2 ship-loads of cavalry against Pike and Spear there.



1545 AD - Wait for Treaties to expire while I build up forces for the push against Rome. Got Military alliances with Spain and Germany against Rome. First two cities fall easily. But there is rough terrain ahead.



1580 AD - Spain and Germany were a great help destroying the swarms of Roman units while I sruggled through the mountain terrain. I grab the last Roman city and achieve a domination victory that turn.




This is by far the earlies finish I have ever had. I decided to be more aggressive early and restrict building improvements. Most of my non core cities only had Temples and Barracks. I quit building barracks on my continent at some point but I still built too many. More room for improvement.

I don't think I build a single Wonder and only captured a few. I only tried to build Smith's and JS Bach but wasn't quick enough.

All in all, a much better outing. I doubled my last Jason score. I can't wait for the next one!

Software Version: PtW 1.27f for Windows
Entry class: open
Game status: Domination Victory for Aztecs
Game date: 1580 AD
Firaxis score: 4568
Jason score: 7368
Time played: 24:35:27

Open 1.27f

Middle Age Spoiler

I entered Industrial Age 1435AD.

Russian War
1440 the Russian was thinking way too much of themselves and starting sending troops onto our lands. Is this because they know Nationalism but I don't? If the spirits guided the Germans, like the mighty Aztecs, they would pursue steam power instead. They didn't want to remove the forces and declared war. That was the end of the mighty Russian empire. At this time the Russians was my main trading ally, technically advances and had a weak army. Now I made military alliances with Spain and Germany. 1640 the Russians were no more, without my interference on the other continent.



Tech leader
The Russian war really made me the tech leader in the world and hampered the Germans and spains progress a lot. To rush events ahead, I did know synthetic fibres when Germany hadn't learned steam power yet (although a bit hard to estimate since I was in war then). The Spain was only a bit better of since I was trading techs at first for their two luxuries.

Getting bored while waiting for my 20k victory
- Revenge on the Germans 2
Since I didn't have anything to do while waiting for my culture victory, I decided to take revenge on the Germans for their ROP rape on me in GOTM31. I hope they remember me, I certainly remember them. This war I estimated would give me two additional luxuries and also give me a chance to practice ship chaining that I never used before.
So I prepared while waiting for motorized transports and amphibious warfare (I read the excellent article by scoutsouth on marines and wanted to give it a try). I decided to use 8 marines, 8 artillery, 16 infantry and 16 tanks in my first two waves. I also used 30 transports after recalculation when I noticed the transport capacity was lowered from 8 to 6. So 1745 I launched the attack. Did I mention that Germany (and Spain) only had musketman's to defence because they didn't bother to learn nationalism from the Russians before destroying them...
I only stopped my progress in 1830 so to not reach the domination limit.



Culture Progress
Unfortunate I didn't get any more leaders to hurry improvements in the Industrial Age and the Modern Age. So I had to build everything from scratch. Maybe I would have done better if I had thought on building a nuclear power plant earlier in Tenochtitlan, but I think this was the first time I built one, ever.

Culture Buildings in Tenochtitlan:
University 1200
Newton's University 1455
Smith's Trading Company 1530
Shakespeare's Theatre 1570
Theory of Evolution 1610
Universal Suffrage 1665
Hoover Dam 1720
Wall Street 1740
Military Academy 1760
The Internet 1786
(Research Lab 1786)
United Nations 1814
SETI Program 1838
Apollo Program 1850
Manhattan Project 1868

End game
Achieved 20K victory 1872AD
Tenochtitlan 20086 Culture, 124 Culture/turn
Firaxis Score 5046, Jason Score 6240

maybe, I can add pictures later because I think I need to reinstall my photo/picture/paint program.

Middle Age Spoiler

Open 1.27f

I was warring w/ the Iroquois upon entering the Industrial Age in 1360 AD. The Iroquois are destroyed in 1395 AD. As a result, the Aztec now have complete control of the starting landmass and the Oracle & Great Lighthouse wonders.

Now, I begin setting my sights on the western landmass and who to target first. The Koreans and Romans are the two prime targets. They are weaker among the other civs and both are on the island just off the coast of the western continent. I declare war on Korea in 1460 AD (didn't have enough transports ready). They are destroyed in 1475 AD. Pick up Copernicus's Observatory in Inch'on.

Rome had also been at war w/ Korea. In 1475 AD, I declare war on Rome and sign an alliancew/ Spain to help occupy Rome. I capture several Roman cities, but Spain gets the pleasure of destroying Rome in 1515 AD. Aztecs now have complete control over the large island and a good footing on the western landmass.

At this point, I figure I only need the German and Russian territories for a domination victory. Spain is the strongest power among this continent's starting civs, so I can manipulate them into helping me. If they do capture some German or Russian cities, I can easily take them if needed.

War is declared on Germany in 1530 AD. I go through a few turns where the RNG gods are not happy w/ me. On the bright side, I gain 5 GLs (one was generated on defense but died in battle) in this war, creating armies, w/ 3 and rushing Universal Suffrage w/ the other. Germany is destroyed in 1650 AD.

Now, on to Russia. Since I'm near my goal of a domination win, I decide to do the unthinkable. I ROP rape the Russians in 1670 AD, after positioning my forces. I do capture 2 of Catherine's cities right away, but lose many cavalry at the gates of Kiev. This was a very frustrating period of the game for me, because I was wanting to gain a domination win by the 1700s. Of course, I was rushing temples & libraries in all the captured cities, so my borders were expanding almost every turn. But, Kiev and Minsk proved to be real bastards. It was the only point of the game I wish I had built some artillery.

I finally secure Kiev in 1705 AD, which triggers the domination win in 1710 AD.

Assessment:

I had expected an earlier win than 1710 AD. Early on, I was gunning for a domination win in the 1500s. Why? I just didn't think I could change my play-style habits fast enough to win sooner on monarch. I wasn't too disappointed when I knew I wouldn't make it, but was quite disappointed when I missed "domination" in the 1600s, especially by 2 turns. I think my greatest error was not having enough transports ready to go when needed. My wisest decision was not to build artillery, just knights and cavalry. Like I said earlier, there was only one time I wish I had had artillery and that was near the end against Kiev and Minsk. Five on each city would've definitely given me the win by the 1700s.

Firaxis score - 3658
Jason Score - 6140

dojoboy said:

Middle Age Spoiler

War is declared on Germany in 1530 AD. I go through a few turns where the RNG gods are not happy w/ me. On the bright side, I gain 5 GLs (one was generated on defense but died in battle) in this war, creating armies, w/ 3 and rushing Universal Suffrage w/ the other. Germany is destroyed in 1650 AD.

Click to expand...

Dojoboy: How could you rush Universal Suffrage with a ML? Can't be done AFAIK.

al_thor said:

Dojoboy: How could you rush Universal Suffrage with a ML? Can't be done AFAIK.

Click to expand...

That is only in C3C, not Civ3/PTW.

Oops - sorry. My brain was in the wrong thread.

I think that I rushed 2 wonders with Leaders in this GOTM. I've been playing Conquests for so long, that I had almost forgotton that you could do it. In fact, I made 3 Armies before it dawned on me that I could use them for Great Wonders.

Montezuma woke on this wonderful morning, walked over the balcony of in his new third story bedroom and looked at the beautiful new Cathedral that would be opening today. All across the nation people were smiling at the thought of the architectural wonder in the capital. Within a couple of weeks, the national trading post was dedicated and the gold flowed into the treasury.

“We need more land to truly dominate this planet” spoke Montezuma to his military advisors. “Show me your plans,” he said and the general and admiral laid out an ingenious invasion strategy using the newly trained cavalry units. “That we need a safe place to land that won’t disturb the Koreans is our only concern” they stated, “How about here next to St. Petersburg, a deal with Russia shouldn’t cost us very much” offered Montezuma and so it was done. The Queen of Russia was happy to exchange a right of passage with Aztecs for a supply of gems and soon the fleet sailed west.

The timing was perfect, at 6:00 am the Declaration of War was delivered to the King of Korea and at 6:30 am the Korean spearmen in Pyongyang and Taejon were quickly overrun by the Aztec cavalry. With the only Korean cities on the island secure, the troops began preparing the invasion of the Korean mainland, when word came from the border, German Knights were approaching Pyongyang.

“Has Otto lost his mind” chuckled Colonel Scoutsout “He’s sending a pair of knight units and a longbow unit this way, prepare to defend the city he ordered the musket soldiers, we’re going to visit Cologne”. As expected the German attack was unsuccessful and quickly the counterattacking cavalry eliminated the attackers.

General Grahamiam reported, “A surprise attack by the Hun was no surprise at all. What are your orders? ” “He needs to be taught a lesson in humility General, see that it’s done.” Montezuma commanded. “Just Cologne?” the General asked. “No, a bigger lesson” replied Montezuma “send for the Admiral, our troops will need transport to the German mainland, take care of the planning, I’m off to a dedication of Universal Suffrage”.

The Korean leader was quite happy to receive the peace offering, the Spanish Cavalry were causing him a large pain to his south and to his relief the Aztec leader not only offered him peace, but he was willing to sell him saltpeter for his Hwacha’s. Isabella would soon pay.

On a hill overlooking the gates of Heidelberg stood Colonel Scoutsout with 12 companies of Cavalry just unloaded from the Aztec Galleons, “Those pikemen on the walls don’t look very happy to see us do they, Major” said the Colonel. Major Khan just smiled.

The major was still smiling from atop the walls of the newly captured city, when a German longbow unit was overrun by an Elite Aztec Swordsman unit and the Great Leader Abutozhol stepped from his unit to kill the last dozen archers with a single thrust. Abutozhol was quickly promoted to leader of an army of recently trained Infantry soldiers. The cavalry soldiers would not have to worry about defense again. With this powerful escort Colonel Scoutsout’s cavalry overran Munich and were standing on the steps of the Oracle in Berlin, looking across at the Great Library of Berlin when a messenger rushed up, “Sir, Spanish cavalry in large numbers has been spotted moving from central Korea our direction” was his report. “Major, get those infantrymen in position, companies on the way” he ordered.

General Grahamiam hurriedly entered the meeting room with a handful of dispatches, “Our troops report large numbers of Spanish Cavalry crossing the border near Berlin and Heidelberg,” he reported. “Contact the German ambassador, I’m sure peace will interest him. Also send a message to our Korean friends about a Mutual Protection Pact. Let’s prepare a little surprise for the Spanish tart,” said Montezuma with a sly grin. Let’s see if that new Heroic Epic statue in the park will inspire the troops.

General Cortez ordered his cavalry units to attack Berlin without warning, but it was his surprise when the infantrymen arose from behind the barricades and decimated his cavalry. What few horsemen were left after the charge, were quickly run down by the fresh cavalry from the city. As Cortez and his honor guard were fighting man to man with an elite Aztec Cavalry, Itzobatl rode through the mass of horse and riders to slay the Spanish General and the victory for the Aztec unit was complete.

Montezuma stood before his advisors and spoke “I crave sausage and beer and so I’m moving my palace to Berlin. This new hero Itzobatl will be able to rally the people to build a new palace for me and I will be leaving in the morning”. Somehow having the leader move away, made the people produce more and spend more, which meant more tax income for the treasury.

“It seems our friends the Koreans and their German allies have blocked all Spanish troops from our borders and Isabella has been reduced to shelling our shorelines” reported Admiral Bugsy “That new Military Academy might have been built for nothing.”

The discovery of the Theory of Evolution cemented the technological advantage for the Aztecs and scientists across the nation came forth with new ideas about atoms and electronics. Even though the mighty Aztec nation was at war with Spain and her ally Rome, the troops were rarely bothered to do more than take a random shot at passing Spanish Frigates. The discovery of the Radio would usher the Aztec empire to the Modern Age well ahead of any other nation.

After a few more rounds of Spanish Frigates pounding the coastline, Montezuma contacted Wang Kong. “While it is no longer in the best interests of the Aztec Republic to continue with this Mutual Protection Pact, let us renew our saltpeter deal and would you care to make an offer for the knowledge of Electricity? was the message. While the Korean leader was no longer gracious to the Aztecs, this new knowledge cost him a little gold, so he was still polite.

“We’ve easily moved to a democracy and now I think it’s time to do a little wheeling and dealing. The world is finally at peace; let’s see if the others are willing to help speed our trip to the stars. Gather together a representative from each nation and tell them to bring full trading proxy and their checkbook” Montezuma said. After many furious rounds of gifting and trading, Montezuma sat back in his chair to marvel at the results. “We’ve learned Fission, Ecology and Computers, and a it looks like I’ve actually increased the treasury. We did have to bestow oil and iron on a couple of countries, which could have an impact on the future peace of the world, but with our new Mechanized Infantry guarding our borders, I feel quite secure. We’re trading four luxuries to the Koreans and three to Spain, which should keep them polite. Those Romans and Germans are another matter that might need a military solution.”

The hectic week was finally over and President Montezuma collapsed into an overstuffed chair, General Grahamiam entered quietly and waited for the President to notice him, “You’d think that a Power Dam and a Financial Center could be opened without me there to break a champagne bottle and ring a bell, but that’s just one of the little demands of this job. And tomorrow I’m off to watch the Apollo Launch. What’s got your feathers ruffled General? Montezuma asked. “It’s the Germans sir, they keep crossing our borders with those smelly Panzers, do I have your permission to do something about them” asked the General. “It needs to be quick and decisive General, neither the people nor I will not tolerate a protracted affair”.

“Not bad” the General said “Four cities on the first day. Our new Modern Armor rolled right over the valiant, but out dated German armor. There’s three more cities to the southwest and then we can go home”.

The remaining three German cities fell easily, leaving only a single German city on the west coast. Peace was quickly negotiated by the new Hero of the Aztecs, Acamapicek, soon to be known as the father of the Internet. It was in the newly acquired Sistine Chapel in Frankfurt, that President Montezuma had a glorious experience, the ancient god SirPleb had come to him in a vision and spoke, “What are you still doing on this little planet, haven’t you read the spoilers, people have finished off this world 100’s of years ago, you need to get on with your future” and so with the path be for him ordained from above, Montezuma knew he’d soon be heading for Alpha Centauri again.

Montezuma stood addressing the delegates from the nations of the world, “With this new forum for negotiations, this Nations United Building, let peace become the way of the future. Let’s us go forth in harmony to travel to the stars.” Little would he know that the peace would be short lived. What started out as a little border spat between Russia and Spain, escalated and Montezuma soon found he was talking with the Spanish Ambassador about an alliance against Russia. Noting that on Sevastopol was the only Russian city anywhere nears his lands, Montezuma was quite happy to sign the alliance for a pair of luxuries. The two Russian Rifle units were no match for the Elite Aztec Cavalry and Sevastopol fell quickly. If the Romans had just remained peaceful, Montezuma would have been happy to send his troops home, but Caesar had allied with Russian and soon the once fearsome Roman Legionary were marching towards his cities.

“That really wasn’t fair” Colonel Scoutsout said from the turret of his M1A Abrams tank in the city of Ravenna. “The Roman Empire never had a chance. Their riflemen, longbows and guerillas fought bravely, but died none-the-less to the power of the Aztec war machine. Their bravery will now live only in the history books.

Once more peace was the order of the day on the planet. Germany was contained as in a pair of coastal towns Russia had settled into being a buffer between Spain and Korea. Piece by piece, the Aztec spaceship was completing.

“This was a good world. Abe & Hiawatha would have liked to seen what we did with it” thought Musilis, dropping the alias he had carried for nearly 6000 years, as he settled in the inertia couch in his stasis pod. “This is first officer Karasu, we are at 1 minute and counting until lift off, please activate your stasis chambers”

As he activated the stasis controls Mursilis thought “Karasu, didn’t he work with Ain…..”

Epilogue: Space Ship Launch in 1776 AD – 23 hours elapsed time – Firaxis score 5168 - Jason 7301

1.27 Always War, going for Diplomatic win.

Link to Ancient Age spoiler
Link to Middle Age spoiler

When I entered the Industrial Age in 970AD the other-continent Civs had just started landing small forces on my continent.

The first thing to do was build railroads of course. I researched Steam Power in five turns and my workers began this project. Next I researched toward Replaceable Parts as quickly as I could so that my workers would be more effective.

My top priorities were:
1) Fending off enemy units which landed on my continent.
2) Researching through the Industrial Age as quickly as possible.

A lesser priority was to send an invasion force to take a couple of luxuries and more land on the other continent. That never happened. It was 1255AD before I felt I could spare enough units for a small invasion. At that date I had 10 elite Knights, 8 elite Cavalry, 16 veteran Cavalry, 3 Infantry, 6 Artillery, 2 Ironclads, and 5 Galleons. And I had enough railroads in place that I could afford to leave a relatively small number of units at home to defend my coast. (Until I had a good railroad in place it was necessary to have units stationed at intervals all the way around the continent.)

If I invaded the other continent, it was a safe bet that as soon as I landed all five Civs would attack, probably with the benefit of ROPs. I'd have to send a lot of reinforcements, dedicating all production at home to the invasion. I'd probably end up with war weariness and if that happened, my research would slow down - I'd either have to boost the luxury rate or flip to Monarchy. I might not even gain additional luxuries - the remote Civs would bombard my beachhead from the sea, making it difficult to maintain a trade connection.

Overall it just didn't seem worthwhile to invade - it would probably cost me some time toward getting the UN. So I decided to just hold and develop my continent. If I didn't win the UN vote, and didn't lose it (a loss seemed very unlikely - at worst I expected some Civs to abstain) then I'd crush them all in Modern Times as revenge. ("Vote for me or else!")

Korea and Spain had the lead among the other five Civs and I saw no reason that would change. It would probably be one of those two against me in the UN. So I'd want to work toward gaining the votes of Germany, Russia, and Rome at the end.

Invaders were a nuisance throughout the Industrial Age. They were no real threat once I had railroads in place. The worst landing was an early turn, before railroads, when Korea landed 2 Musketmen, 3 MI, and a Longbowman. I had enough Cavalry in range to destroy them all but lost two Cavalry in the process. Later on I could easily move Artillery to any location and I had no further losses - I could redline any troops that landed before engaging them in combat. Once I foolishly forgot to take out some Germans before I ended my turn and I lost a city. Took it back easily the following turn of course.

Coastal bombardment was a major nuisance. All of the other Civs sent ships over regularly. I eventually got a number of Ironclads built, and later on some Destroyers, and they dispatched a number of Spanish and Korean ships. I didn't destroy ships from the other Civs - I didn't want to risk making them so furious that I couldn't get their votes later. Instead I bombarded those ships from the coastline when I could. Each time a ship was injured it would travel home and heal before returning and that reduced the bombardment considerably.

It was a constant challenge getting my research speed to the maximum. I researched all required techs in the Industrial Age in four turns except: Steam Power (5), Electricity (5), Replaceable Parts (6), and Atomic Theory (5). I saved a leader and rushed Theory Of Evolution to complete in the same turn as I learned Flight.

1435AD was the end of my Always War mode. In that year I learned Flight and got Radio and Fission as my free techs from Theory Of Evolution. I had a Palace prebuild which would complete on the following turn and changed that to build UN. Korea and Spain remained my strongest rivals so I made peace with Germany, Russia, and Rome.

After making peace Germany and Russia were furious, Rome was polite. I built embassies with all three.
Giving Germany spices for ROP + MPP improved her to annoyed. Giving her The Corporation for an alliance vs. Korea brought her up to polite. And a gift of Steel made her gracious. She refused to ally with me against Spain.
Russia was easier because she was willing to ally against both Korea and Spain. She was soon gracious.
Rome was easier again - she was willing to ally against both enemies and she started from polite.
So, three of my former enemies were gracious! Just to be safe I made some extra trades for luxuries and resources.

My rival for the UN vote in 1440AD was Korea. China voted for Korea, my three new friends voted for me, and that was that - a diplomatic victory in 1440AD!

Firaxis score 4792, Jason score 8098.

Xevious said:

Interesting note, Viroconium was size 1 with no culture expansion, but I was able to take it anyway. Maybe it had culture, but hadn't expanded yet?

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That did change at one point, I've forgotten which release. Before one of the patches you could hold a town if it had just a bit of culture. As of the final 1.27 PTW patch auto-razing occurs if the culture is less than 10. If you're using 1.27 then this would be an interesting exception, worth digging into if you have a save from that time.

HighDesert said:

The very first turn a flip is availabe to the AI, it flips the town taking my 18 unit attacking force.

Click to expand...

Ouch! That really does suck. I don't mind culture flipping conceptually but I do wish they'd fix it to either be impossible when you have a garrison like that, or to send the garrison home instead of poofing it. Events like this one shouldn't be possible and it shouldn't be necessary to avoid them by keeping healing troops outside captured cities.

HighDesert said:

I'm happy to start a thread somewhere else (any suggestions?) to debate this if anyone is interested.

Click to expand...

I'm afraid there isn't much point. It seems that Civ3 as we see it in Conquests patch 1.22 is the final Civ3. I doubt that Firaxis is even reading suggestion threads or bug reports about Civ3 anymore.

HighDesert said:

War with everyone for the entire game and the Civs went Furious to Polite so fast I could hardly believe it! I don't understand quite how this happens. Perhaps there is some sort of War Weariness with the AI? SirPleb?

Click to expand...

Bamspeedy's "AI Attitude" article describes the factors which affect attitude. Based on the factors he describes this shift of attitude is predictable - the things you changed improved their attitude quite a bit.

In fact, getting the diplomatic victory using that information would be almost trivially predictable in this game except for one thing - there seems to be a threshold of negative attitude, caused by acts of war, which will result in another Civ being permanently furious for all practical purposes. (See my post here in Bamspeedy's thread.) Because of that I tried to avoid doing much damage (sinking of ships) to the AIs I wanted as my friends at the end.

Kuningas said:

Signing MAs/MPP with all the civs against UN rival, removes bad reputation. You can't lose vote when you set those MAs. That is actually bug. I think SirPleb is trying without MAs.

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Actually, I went ahead and used MAs In hindsight I don't think I needed them, could probably have gotten three "polite" AIs without.

I don't think there's a bug there though. You can lose even with MAs. MAs are fairly strong in the amount they improve attitude, and they also do, because of the war, temporarily remove hits against attitude which relate to the common enemy. From Bamspeedy's article: "Example: Say the Aztecs have added +10 points because of things I have done to the Iroquois. If the Aztecs go to war with the Iroquois, those 10 points are taken away"

HighDesert said:

...So, irrespective that I will win the game despite the flip, I immediately exit the game and abandon it. I WILL NOT play a game that cheats. I'll continue to play Civ (until I've had enough of the cheating, I presume), but any particular game that cheats to this degree gets dropped immediately. I endure the "annoying flips" with the rest of you. (Ever notice how flips are always described as annoying.) As a game developer that's sure what I want...my customers describing an aspect of the game as annoying. And I endure questionable battle results without complaint. (Does anyone really believe the published offensive/defensive strengths of naval units, e.g.) But this degree of taking I won't endure....

Click to expand...

I am very sad to hear that HighDesert. I hope that there's a change you'll change your mind. You're first 20k win is something I would love to see.

SirPleb said:

I don't mind culture flipping conceptually but I do wish they'd fix it to either be impossible when you have a garrison like that, or to send the garrison home instead of poofing it. Events like this one shouldn't be possible and it shouldn't be necessary to avoid them by keeping healing troops outside captured cities.

Click to expand...

Conquests (as well as PTW), of course, has that Allow Cultural Conversions (One of the all-time great euphemisms) flag through which "Conversions" could be obviated in COTM games. I don't recall the flag in Vanilla Civ, so GOTMs are seemingly stuck with it. I doubt that this would pass the ainwood unbalancing test, but if enough folks thought just getting rid of this foolishness made sense, perhaps COTM could implement it.

SirPleb said:

In fact, getting the diplomatic victory using that information would be almost trivially predictable in this game except for one thing - there seems to be a threshold of negative attitude, caused by acts of war, which will result in another Civ being permanently furious for all practical purposes.

Click to expand...

The couple of practice games I have tried for Diplo wins, I had one or more Civs decide toward the end of the game that things were a bit too peaceful. Bringing them into the fold for the vote seemed a black art that was beyond me.

Then I tried your suggested GOTM32 AW game with a Diplo win. I did invade the other continent, indeed left Germany with one city. I then just for fun pillaged the entire rest of the continent and knocked off every unit that stuck it's head out of a town. As well I bombarded most of the towns down to nothing and sunk every naval unit I could find. I did this up to the final turn. There weren't any permanent war effects evident; the three civs I bought off all went Polite or better and voted for me upon building the UN. Didn't use MPP.

After failing at basically peaceful games to win the vote, and then to get it in an AW game was surprising to me.

Reviewing the Bamspeedy thread I see I forgot the MPP...that -10 is enough to push the annoyeds over into Polite and you're there. I have a save of one of the previous games in which I couldn't get a conclusive vote and sure enough, MPP pushed it over the top.

Thanks for pointing out the threads which I had forgotten about (fully half of playing this game seems to be remembering where the relevant references are!)and thanks for suggesting a fun variant.

HighDesert: Just a thought that might keep you around, why not play each game for either a domination or conquest victory and raze rather that keep the large cities you take. Having a couple of replacement settlers along would allow you to keep the space and not have to worry about flips. The other option would be to go for a culture style victory, so that flips would be greatly reduced.

Culture Flipping during war:
I agree that this should be handled differently. It should be more of an uprising which would be depicted with an 'automated' sequence of guerrilla-type fighters surrounding the city and attacking your fortified units. The number of guerrilla's would dpend on the size of the city, with Militaristic civs maybe getting a bonus of some sort. Then is would just be a matter of RNG to see how the fight turns out.

I will usually fortify only 1 or 2 red- or yellow-lined units in a recently conquered city. If that means that the AI re-takes it, then so be it. I just conquer it again on the next turn. This helps to reduce the number of citizens anyway. Of course, it also reduces the number of improvements in the city too, but I'd rather have that than an annoying flip that wipes out a very expensive and indispensable force.