Racialism alive and well - In California!

CurtSibling · Jul 4, 2004

An interesting Faux news story here:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124498,00.html

About a mother whose young son has been refused an IQ test on the grounds of being black!

I see some states in the USA have not dragged themselves out of the 1950s? :eek:

As an even worse outrage - The administrative body suggested the woman reclassify her son as 'white' on the request forms!

What the heck!
I am flabbergasted and sickened at this medieval attitude!
But not completely surprised - :rolleyes:

Read the story and tell us what do you think!

The Last Conformist · Jul 4, 2004

Bizarre.

Really weird bit is the '79 ruling. If the tests were biased, surely the sensible course would have been either changing them, or abolishing them totally?

Syterion · Jul 4, 2004

What's racialism?

Anyway, after reading the article, I'm baffled. How could a test be biased against black kids? I don't think it could be because of the correcters, because they could be replaced.

Erik Mesoy · Jul 4, 2004

CurtSibling said:
I see some states in the USA have not dragged themselves out of the 1950s?

As an even worse outrage - The administrative body suggested the woman reclassify her son as 'white' on the request forms!

What the heck!
I am flabbergasted and sickened at this medieval attitude!
But not completely surprised -

^^What he said^^

Ask Sheep2 if you want a real opinion on "not being surprised" by anything bad in America, though...

The Last Conformist · Jul 4, 2004

Syterion said:
What's racialism?

Basically, a fancy word for "racism".

If I've got it right, it was originally invented to describe the view that while races are not inherently superior or inferior, there are still significant differences between them. This was however widely perceived as an attempt to simply repackage traditional racism more palatably, and distinction has been purposely ignored in some quarters, to the result it will mostly be understood as a synomym of racism these days.

Anyway, after reading the article, I'm baffled. How could a test be biased against black kids? I don't think it could be because of the correcters, because they could be replaced.

It could ask questions that black kids might, for socioeconomic reasons, be less likely to answer well than white or asian kids.

(Last time I took an online ICQ test, I was rather annoyed to see it contained questions on American literature. I could not help but feel that that part was measuring cultural background rather than intelligence.)

luiz · Jul 4, 2004

The Last Conformist said:
(Last time I took an online ICQ test, I was rather annoyed to see it contained questions on American literature. I could not help but feel that that part was measuring cultural background rather than intelligence.)

A question about literature in an IQ test?!

That's ridiculous. IQ is supposed to be a measure of intelligence, not knowledge. All IQ tests that I took were basically logic tests, and I admitt that beign good in math boosted my score.

The Last Conformist · Jul 4, 2004

luiz said:
A question about literature in an IQ test?!

Your amazement is shared.

That's ridiculous. IQ is supposed to be a measure of intelligence, not knowledge. All IQ tests that I took were basically logic tests, and I admitt that beign good in math boosted my score.

Apparently, the way to determine whether a test qualifies as an IQ test is to see if test scores correlate strongly with those from other IQ tests (this is part of the reasons I'm quite skeptic to the usefulness of IQ). I can only assume that the test subject for that one were all Americans.

luiz · Jul 4, 2004

The Last Conformist said:
Your amazement is shared.

Apparently, the way to determine whether a test qualifies as an IQ test is to see if test scores correlate strongly with those from other IQ tests (this is part of the reasons I'm quite skeptic to the usefulness of IQ). I can only assume that the test subject for that one were all Americans.

I don't belive in IQ either, even though for me it would be quite convinient if it was true, since I usually score very high.

amadeus · Jul 4, 2004

This wouldn't be a problem if stupid people didn't try to say that an IQ test was biased against black people. It's a test! Like we printed it on some kind of paper that goes "Negro detected! Releasing low score-inducing chemicals!"

blindside · Jul 4, 2004

Perhaps they should take this speech class and maybe they'll improve their scores (among other things).

Sanaz · Jul 4, 2004

rmsharpe said:
This wouldn't be a problem if stupid people didn't try to say that an IQ test was biased against black people. It's a test! Like we printed it on some kind of paper that goes "Negro detected! Releasing low score-inducing chemicals!"

I still say that the people who are infinitely more stupid made the decision that the correction for this first stupid assertion was to not test black kids. People like this should have no decision making powers in the field of education.

Hundegesicht · Jul 4, 2004

IQ isn't really a good measure of intelligence, IMO. If it serves any use at all, it somewhat helps in measuring how quickly a person learns. Knowledge, mindset, education, and teachability are far more importent. For example, I scored a 160 last time I took a professional IQ test (1 on 1 from a university, online ones are a waste of time as are most written tests where they sit you down with 20 other people) but I'm probably much "smarter" than a person with twice that score who's been locked in a room all their life and much "dumber" than someone who, while having a lower IQ, possesses the above skills at a much greater level.

WillJ · Jul 4, 2004

Hmm, I've taken online IQ tests before (yes, I know they're not as good/official as ones given one-on-one by psychologists), and I have no idea how they, or anything similar, could be biased toward a race.

Hundegesicht said:
IQ isn't really a good measure of intelligence, IMO. If it serves any use at all, it somewhat helps in measuring how quickly a person learns.

That's pretty much what intelligence is. IQ tests don't measure knowledge, education, etc. very well because they're not intended to.

amadeus · Jul 4, 2004

If the standard outcome of the tests broken down by race is evidence of racial bias, does this mean that all of these IQ tests and such are biased towards a group with high scores, like Koreans?

Maybe there was a secret deal involving the White House and Goldstar... :hmm:

Hundegesicht · Jul 4, 2004

Agreed. Just because one ethnic group scores higher than another doesn't necessarily mean it's the test's fault. Why are they even comparing the IQ of different races anyway? :confused:

Unless you're relying on incredibly small probabilities, there is bound to be some discrepancies no matter what.

WillJ: I guess I'm referring to "smartness" overall, for lack of a better word. I know some extremely "intelligent" "geniuses" who are pretty damn stupid.

Duddha · Jul 5, 2004

Ignorant Non-Californians discussing something they don't understand.

At that time, many black kids performed poorly on the IQ test and wound up in special education classes. A lawsuit claimed the test was biased and a judge agreed banning public schools from giving the test to black children while allowing it for everyone else.

What isn't discussed in this article, obviously because it is Fox, is that the IQ test, along with the SAT, was designed for California in the early 20th/late 19th century as a way to test out non-whites from the University of California. The IQ test was just one part of the Eugenics and Nordic Supremacy craze invented in California (especially in California academia) during this period that was then exported accross the country and globe. In Mein Kampf, Hitler actually praised racial supremacy policies in California as a positive example for the world. The real Uberman was invented in California. California is Globalization.

Anyways, the 1979 court ruling was an attempt to stop the racial discriminating nature of the IQ test, obviously the court ruling didn't go far enough and ban the use of the test in schools entirely. Using the IQ test for entrance into the Gate program (the actual name of the program in the article of which I participated in during elementary school) is stupid for a number of reasons. My personal experience is that the program itself is pretty stupid and designed mainly as a self-esteem boost for neurotic parents.

The Last Conformist · Jul 5, 2004

@Duddha: Exactly how did they rig the test against non-whites, then? I'm taking it it didn't work wrt Asians ...

Plotinus · Jul 5, 2004

IQ tests are useless for measuring anything other than how good you are at IQ tests. Intelligence is too vague a thing to be measured by a single scale - it's a matter of reasoning power, logical intuitiveness, ability to learn, articulation, any number of things. To give someone a few tests and then say their "intelligence quotient" is a certain number is just silly.

And yes, I have had my IQ determined by psychologists, and I'm not just bitter because it turned out lower than I hoped!

Mrogreturns · Jul 5, 2004

What's the fuss about? The instrument should only be used for populations for which it has been normed. I've heard of people being critised for inappropriately administering tests in that way- but this is the first time I've heard of them being critised for not using them inappropriately. Another case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Mrogreturns · Jul 5, 2004

The Last Conformist said:
@Duddha: Exactly how did they rig the test against non-whites, then? I'm taking it it didn't work wrt Asians ...

A common way this happens when there are items assessing knowledge (such as general knowledge or vocabulary) that are less likely to have been encountered by members of some racial or social groups compared to others.

Racialism alive and well - In California!

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