A second civilized species on Earth.

This is something we were talking about at work yesterday: if humans survive long enough it is not impossible that a second species could evolve into an intelligent animal like man. This would probably take a million or more years so it would be so gradual that perhaps nobody would notice that, say, the squirrels were getting smarter. So what current animal would be most likely to evolve into this? I would guess that the advantage would be decidedly in the favor of those species that have adapted to mankind. It would probably need to be a robust species with a fairly wide distribution to have enough genetic variety to pull this off.

You forgot to put 'none' as an option, because no species will ever be given the opportunity by mankind to set up a civilization.

Well, it's an interesting question, but I'd doubt that it would be likely.

First off intelligence is a huge investment, we require much more calories than an animal of our size simply because our brains require so much energy.

Now in the case of mammels take a look at birthing. A woman in labor doesn't have it easy, take a look at other mammels and birthing is simple. The problem, oversized heads because of our big brain!

Of course the real wildcard here is what the heck will man be up to. I find it quite likely that earth may be so bizzare from nanotechnology biotechnology, and all kinds of other weird stuff.

Now, if I was told that an animal reached intelligence in the near geologic feature, It place my bets on the octopus, they are allready quite intelligent, they have the appendages neccesary, they live in the ocean so they would be as bothered by humanity, and their development wouldn't be hampered by live birth constraints. Altough, it would need to develop much better social behavior.

Platypus. They are so strange already so I wouldn't be surprised if they managed this.

How do you define civlization? One could argue that state-forming insects have a civilization right now.
I honestly doubt that any other species would evolve in a human-like society. Or at least i hope.

[edit] I have tp agree with Pasi Nurminen. Humanity would not tolerate any life form on earth to rise to an equal status. Thats sad and says a lot about us humans. But then i doubt humanity will stay long enough to hinder the evolution much in the forthcoming millions years. Through killing these species now could take their chance of survival.

Pasi Nurminen said:

You forgot to put 'none' as an option, because no species will ever be given the opportunity by mankind to set up a civilization.

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While I'd mostly agree, this is sort of a hypothetical question poll, what would it most likely be in that rare instance.

WickedSmurf said:

Platypus. They are so strange already so I wouldn't be surprised if they managed this.

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Nah, those things are living fossils, it's unlikely they'd change much.

Perfection said:

Now, if I was told that an animal reached intelligence in the near geologic feature, It place my bets on the octopus, they are allready quite intelligent, they have the appendages neccesary, they live in the ocean so they would be as bothered by humanity, and their development wouldn't be hampered by live birth constraints. Altough, it would need to develop much better social behavior.

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While the octopus is a good canidate I wonder if living in water might be a disadvantage at some point. It would never have the opportunity to master fire without spending more time on land. Perhaps fire is not a necessary prerequisite.

Drewcifer said:

While the octopus is a good canidate I wonder if living in water might be a disadvantage at some point. It would never have the opportunity to master fire without spending more time on land. Perhaps fire is not a necessary prerequisite.

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Oh definitly, but tool use and civilization could be built with the materials down there. I'd say though that 2 million years seems awfully short for the required evlution.

Perfection said:

Now in the case of mammels take a look at birthing. A woman in labor doesn't have it easy, take a look at other mammels and birthing is simple. The problem, oversized heads because of our big brain!

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Could be solved by oversized hips.

My thought would be something like wolves. If some circumstance favored always the most intelligent males ...
Unfortunately they are monogamous.

OK, dogs. But I voted other mammals.

I think it could be the squirrels in a million years or maybe the French given another million However, as far as the Welsh are concerned rocks have more chance of evolving into a sentient life form

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i'm not sure that humans are "civilized", i find the gorillas (not the radioactive ones) more civilized than us.

Very honestlly? i think the Best candidate would just be new evolution of the ape familly into a sentient being; after all, we already know its possible for them to do so.

other then the apes, well, bioligiclly, the Octopi and squid familles have thebest biology,as with their large brains, and the ability to manipulate objects with thier tenticles, its obvious they have what it takes in that respect; however, Octopi, the smarter of that branch of species is rtaher solitary, and I myself dont put all that much stock in the squid evolving to be somthign greater then it is,. at least when compared to Octies...

Grey parrtos diserve an interesting mention; while it would take a LOT longer for them to evole into somthign that can dominate the world as a human, in sheer intelleigence, they they are off the wall! Theybecxome as smart as a 5 year old human child, and tests have shown that it isnt the mere trick-based trainign many migth think, but it real intelligence, and each bird has its own little personality; they are also highlly social, another great boon into evolution into a Human type dominante species; the main obsticle is the lack of the real tool for manipulation, yes the feet and beak are there, but in the long run, thier use is limited; however, the fosile record shows that Birds have reevolved arms at least once, and so it woudl nto surprise me that, if given the right enviroment, they could do it agian, and in doing so be on track to dominanace

parrots are well on their way.
so are orca.

There is room on this planet, or any other planet, for only one civilized specie. Humanity has dominated far too long in that aspect for another to become civilized. But I think this is something to be celebrated. We are the best on this planet; that will never change.

Pasi Nurminen said:

There is room on this planet, or any other planet, for only one civilized specie. Humanity has dominated far too long in that aspect for another to become civilized. But I think this is something to be celebrated. We are the best on this planet; that will never change.

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why shouldn't there be room? The oceans would provide a LOT of room, if we would not constantly poison them. So would the air.

and we are most certainly only best at destruction.

yoshi74 said:

How do you define civlization? One could argue that state-forming insects have a civilization right now.

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Yes lots of insect have alredy their own civilization, look at ants, bees. They use matter to built, they farmed greenfly ( some ants), they can communicate ( bees do it by dancing), they harvest and so on...They even have specialise worker and warrior.

carlosMM said:

why shouldn't there be room? The oceans would provide a LOT of room, if we would not constantly poison them. So would the air.

and we are most certainly only best at destruction.

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Okay, I'll bite.

All I really have to say is that do you think we, as the dominant, and rightfully so, species would allow such a civilization to exist? Refine your definition of civilization. Civilization means towns, cities, culture, technology beyond rubbing a pair of sticks together. No specie will ever accomplish that. It is our right to prevent any specie from accomplishing that. It is our duty to preserve our reign as supreme over this planet, and we will never let some ape or walrus or what-have-you challenge us. All other species are subordinate to us. Period. We are the best. We have created the only civilization in the known universe. Show me another species that can build massive pyramids, or create machines that can go to the deepest depths, and up into space. Show me animals that create art on par with Picasso's or Michelangelo's greatest works. Show me a creature that can create epic symphonies that can rival Mozart's or Beethoven's. Show me a life form with a coherent economic system. Show me animals that debate amongst their social groups issues of morality. Show me something other than a human capable of these things, and I shall recede from my position.

You forgot five of the most intelligent species : chimps, bonobos, gorillas, orang-outans and elephants.

Bonobos and chimps are the best candidates. They use tools and have different cultures based on these tools or on habits. They can learn a sign language and understand the principles of grammar. But most important, they know about life and death, they know they ARE and that they'll die.

Apes do not have culture. When apes start painting epic works of art, composing great pieces of music, or building huge structures in the mould of the Pyramids, then maybe I'll reconsider. But as it stands, apes do not have culture.

I voted "other" but I recalled that giant ant colony found 2 years ago. Remember?

Some day in that area, someone will found a perfectly understandable note written with ant piss...