Back to square one. Wonders

snipelfritz

snipelfritz

Crazy about the Demogame
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After a messy polling precess, I have decided to start over with the discussion of wonders.

As I see it, we have these options,

Build the Hanging Gardens
Build the Hanging Gardens as a prebuild to Sun Tzu's Art of War
Build Sun Tzu's when we can
Don't build any wonders

I've put this in discussion to give ample time to gather opinions or any other possible options. Then I will poll what options we have.
 
Why don't we start a prebuild for Sun Tzu's now? Take what is/what will be our highest shield city, and set that to work on a prebuild once we can. Of course, if we want to do that, it'll take away from our war preparations. (We could set up prebuilds for samurai a couple of turns before we research it, that way we will have a headstart.

Don't forget to turn science down in the last 1 or 2 turn(s) so we get some money to upgrade!) If we don't get Sun Tzu's (the other continent probably will beat us to it), we can always capture it, though it would be easier if it was on our continent.

My conclusion: Start a prebuild for samurais, but don't go for Sun Tzu's, as I doubt we will build it first (due to cascading and the tech lead from the other continent).
 
I would like to start Hanging Gardens as prebuild in FANATIKKU because it is our best wonder city and use it for Sun Tzu or Sistine Chapel (my first choice). Just to mention, in all following polls we should include Sistine Chapel (and maybe Leonardo's) because we're going to research Monotheism.

There is little time and Shorin-Ryu building qeue should be canceled that the city can be given useful things to build.
 
I believe we can actually start two Wonders. One in Fanatikku and one in Zojoji. Both will grow into Wonder Cities.

Because we are unaware of several AI tribe's staus, they are probably ahead of us in Science and length of time in a new Government. This may mean that we will not be able to finish the Hanging Gardens before them. But there are some great Wonders coming up in the Middle Ages. Sun Tzu's, Leonardo', Bach's, Copernicus', and the Sistene Chapel. With proper trading and research, most of these will be available.

Therefore I think our options should be:

1. Hanging Gardens (could be considered a pre-build)
2. Hanging Gardens and a Palace pre-build
3. No Wonders or pre-builds should be started.

If you ask if we should wait to build Sun Tzu's when we can, we have to consider if that means scientifically/tech-wise or if we have a city that is Wonder-worthy (what that means to us at that time...), or if we can spare a city in a time of pre-war or WAR. Too many side issues crammed into one option that we have not discussed and can not be worked out now or before your next poll is posted. Please reconsider your options Honorable Culture Minister, snipelfritz.
 
Cyc- None of this is set in stone. My options were more of starting suggestions than real plans. This is merely a discussion faze, and I am totally open to sugestions.

Invy- I believe you are mistaken, the Sistine Chapel is not available until theology(one after Monotheism).
 
Why no wonders? We have enough cities to start on one wonder. The 3 early middle age wonders (Chapel, SunTzu, Leo) are very powerful, we need to plan to get at least one of them. The Chapel we can capture later on if we want to, but the other two will be needed to allow fighting an agressive war.
 
Gregski said:
Why no wonders? We have enough cities to start on one wonder. The 3 early middle age wonders (Chapel, SunTzu, Leo) are very powerful, we need to plan to get at least one of them. The Chapel we can capture later on if we want to, but the other two will be needed to allow fighting an agressive war.
Click to expand...
I fail to see why Leo is needed for an aggressive war. What units do you want to upgrade ??
I can see the although in my eyes minor advantage of the Sun Tzu. However the units we use will be build in cities that already have barracks. I prefer to build 6 Samurai who capture the city which holds Sun Tzu instead of building Sun Tzu ourselves.
 
We may also gain some cultural power from the wonders as well, hanging garden has a massive culture production PLUS enables a larger city thanks to threee extra happy citizens until steampower, which means an immense production ratio in one city.
Amassing wonders in this city will be very feasible.
 
But, if we conquer a nation and grab their luxuries and build marketplaces, that will also provide ~ 3 happy faces. (In all cities!). Also, cultural borders aren't really an issue when you build a wonder in a core city. If you rushed it with an MGL in an outlying city, then it would help.
 
Again, you are planning with ifs, and fatalistically show to the cascade wonders of other nations. In order to compete, we must at least try, this also applies to wars, not only wonders.
 
Rik Meleet said:
I fail to see why Leo is needed for an aggressive war. What units do you want to upgrade ??
I can see the although in my eyes minor advantage of the Sun Tzu. However the units we use will be build in cities that already have barracks. I prefer to build 6 Samurai who capture the city which holds Sun Tzu instead of building Sun Tzu ourselves.
Click to expand...

To upgrade Horsemen to Samurai. This though not absolutely necessary will enable us to make quicker progress as each upgrade if I remember well costs 80 Gold without Leo and 40G with and will hamper us to an extent. We will be able to use the gold on rushing things like walls or temples if really needed instead.
The Academy is a great wonder for military advances. We cannot assume that a poorly defended city on our march of conquest is going to build it for our benefit.
 
Civ 3 without Wonders? Get real. We need them. For the Culture value alone. They are silent monuments that keep adding Culture to our total. If you give them all to the other tribes, we will be scrambling to stay up with them in Culture.

This is besides all the individual bonuses that Wonders bring. We need Wonders.
 
We need to start a pre-build for Sun Tzu's... free barracks in every city can greatly aid our military efforts (not only counting our treasury). I'd much prefer to have vet units out on the field than regular.
 
I would have to say Sun Tzu's. If we're going to be militaristic we need this barracks!
 
snipelfritz said:
Cyc- None of this is set in stone. My options were more of starting suggestions than real plans. This is merely a discussion faze, and I am totally open to sugestions.

Invy- I believe you are mistaken, the Sistine Chapel is not available until theology(one after Monotheism).
Click to expand...
Hm.. you are right. I apologize :blush:
 
On the one hand, Barracks are cheap (20 Shields) and can be quickly built even in Far off Sectors.

Though, if we want to claim the enitre continent, Pre-Fab Rax would be quite handy.

I guess it would all depend on our Pre-Astro Goals. i.e. Get ALL of the Continent vs Divide the Continent into Japanatican and French Spheres of Influence, or have Babs and/or Iros (and possibly Zulu) as Vassel Nations, etc.


Sistine's however, with 80-shield Cathedrials, is, to me, a make-or-break, but that's during the AoS.
 
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