President's poll #1

Normally I would delegate this, but since this is a national matter, I want the people's vote on the following proposal:

I propose, that following the construction of the markets voted for each city, that EVERY city that currently does not have a settler attached build one, to be used to develop the land around said city, and that each city then build ONE food caravan each, to be used to construct wonders rapidly. Further, the four caravans already constructed be used to create trade routes overseas to Mongolia.

This will help our size, our science, our wonder construction, and our war making potential in the long run.

This is, in the President's opinion, a national emergancy.

I agree. We are too far behind in money. Our research is at 11 turns! An emergency it is!

It would help us in the long run, and the short. Great idea

Ahem... I cant seem to find it now, but this was a KEY belif of mine... every city has a settler...

this was one of the belifs of the illigal KEE Party BTW, so I ask that no one start an orginization that's objective is to make 1 settler per city, or lotsa settlers, etc.

not only that, but when I suggested that we build 1 settler per city, I was told I was stupid cause it would not work in these high-difficulty levels..

suddenley, I dont feel like voting anymore

Originally posted by Pellaken
suddenley, I dont feel like voting anymore

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if you can't take some contrary views, why are you here? not everybody believes the same thing, and situations change. this is a specific case, not a "we should build settlers policy"

Do it.

But dont forget one thing, after the needed improvements are done, we have a mandate to kick some Mongol @$$!

I have no problem with sneaking some "black market" goods into Mongol cities while were at war. Its pretty much a phony war anyway, regardless of the hoop-la.

Our citizens did vote for action though, and as a democracy, we are obligated to do something. However, national emergencies, like a poor science rate, should take presidence.

Lets build our improvements, and grow strong. Time will come to deal with the likes of Genghis Khan...

no... I dont feel like voting cause when I proposed it everyone said it was stupid.

I will vote though, in favour of course.

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
I propose, that following the construction of the markets voted for each city, that EVERY city that currently does not have a settler attached build one, to be used to develop the land around said city, and that each city then build ONE food caravan each, to be used to construct wonders rapidly. Further, the four caravans already constructed be used to create trade routes overseas to Mongolia.

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So if we do this then we do not need any City polls for the foreseeable future although it may be useful for several screenshots to be taken to show each cities current status. Btw I didn't get the saved game.

My email address: Dell19_UG@hotmail.com
Or use this: daveb@lindab.freeserve.co.uk

Can't we do something else to improve our income? Like changing our capital out of Olympia to a more centralized place.(not saying that will do the entire job) And maybe use cheap unit's like warior's to maintain happines ,and the construction of library's?

Anyway ,i do not agree that we should use this vote as a general guideline of what our empire should do ,therefore elliminating the need for city production poll's.I still think there must be seperate poll's for this matter.City poll's by the cp department ,a poll for if we want to use the caravan's to create trade route's ,etc.. .
This micromanagement is a part of this game ,and must be followed.

But the leader's need the screenshot's of EVERY city for that ,and for that i think they need the save game.
Please AoA ,mail the save game to every department leader of this game ,you can find the e-mail adresses in the e-mail notification thread.If you want you can send the save game to me and ill distribute it among the leader's.And ill take a part of the screenshot's myself.
Can you mail me that modpack to?

Hello all!

This is my first foray into this democracy game - I'm glad that I stumbled upon it as it looks like fun. Nice to be back into Civ2 frame of mind - I hope I remember everything. Thanks AoA for letting me in!

I think AoA's "stimulus package" has merits, though I disagree about the number of settlers. I would suggest an average of 1 settler for every 2 cities (perhaps a bit more) and put some additional work in the development of trade.

Caravans will do more for a civilization that just about anything.

1. In the short term, the quick science boost and cash bonus is very nice. With these in numbers (delivered while we still have several turns to a tech), we can begin to dust our neighbors technologically speaking.
2. The extra arrows will give us some happiness in our cities as well - always a plus at Emperor and higher levels.
3. In the long term, a trade route or two in every city (esp. our SSC) will make us unstoppable when we hit a Democracy.

Keep in mind, if we trade with some of our OWN cities, BOTH cities will get trade routes. While the initial bonus will not be as large compared with trading with a foreign entity, it could serve us better in the long run - even if the commodity is not demanded.

If we do trade with the Mongols, I've a feeling we'll find more lucrative cities behind the fog of war that are hiding on that island.

So I agree, in priciple, with AoA that at this time when key wonders are becoming available our infrastructure could benefit. But again, marketplaces will only work on existing income - and settlers and trade routes will make them more valuable.

I apologize if there's is something that I'm missing or that's already been stated. I'm just tuning in and not quite up to speed.

to make it clear:

I also support the presidents stimulus package. I think in times of emerengcy, the president should be given some leeway

I agree with Duck.

A large general poll like this, while is a good outline, shouldn't replace the individual polls. Each city has different requirements, and different resources. Some things outlined may not be possible and following the general guideline could cause a lot of wasted production time.

However....I'm in favor with most of the proposal....except the caravan part. Why conduct in friendly trade with our one and only enemy?!? It just doesn't make sence....we should crush them while we have the chance.

I agree with Corn.
If we deliver to one of the Mongol cities then we will get a larger bonus to cash and science, but when we take their cities in the future, we will lose the extra trade arrows for trading with a foreign civ. They're at war with us already anyway, so we won't gte that much of a bonus, but should one of our cities come to depend on the extra arrows for a trade with the Mongols then they could find themselves in happiness troubles once we take the city. We do need as many trade routes as possible as early as possible, and the Mongols are the first Civ we have found cities of, so we should either send all the caravans to one of their cities and then keep it as a pet when we take the rest or just find another civ to trade with that we're not planning to crush in the near future.

Originally posted by duke o' york
I agree with Corn.
If we deliver to one of the Mongol cities then we will get a larger bonus to cash and science, but when we take their cities in the future, we will lose the extra trade arrows for trading with a foreign civ. They're at war with us already anyway, so we won't gte that much of a bonus, but should one of our cities come to depend on the extra arrows for a trade with the Mongols then they could find themselves in happiness troubles once we take the city. We do need as many trade routes as possible as early as possible, and the Mongols are the first Civ we have found cities of, so we should either send all the caravans to one of their cities and then keep it as a pet when we take the rest or just find another civ to trade with that we're not planning to crush in the near future.

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I agree with Duke and Corn regarding trade with the Mongoons. As I said in my previous post, I think we should send the caravans to our OWN cities - preferably ones on differnet islands to get a slightly bigger bonus. Again, this will set up routes with BOTH cities and we can get the trade sooner rather than later. As well, we won't have to worry about attacking foreign cities that we have trade with.

In the long run, this self-trade can benefit all cities. Perhaps we can "home" a few caravans through our SSC if they're not from there already. It may also be nice to "home" a caravan at a city like spycatcher (or even better, the city that's scheduled for 'Perfect Island' with the whale trade) and then send it TO our SSC.

I'm not sure if you can "home" caravans in all versions of Civ. There was a discussion about this many months ago in Civ 2 General, and I'll try to look it up, but I'm sure that certain versions don't let you get through this loophole.

[Edit]: I was wrong - it's not certain versions that won't let you change the home of a caravan, it's just that you can't change it using the keyboard shortcut. And it all seems so easy now.
Here's the thread I mentioned: Starlifter's wisdom

in canada we have the "adress from the crown" every year. it outlines the objectives of the government for that year. in the US, you have the "state of the union address". perhaps we should have presidential "addresses" every once in a while, where we can outline specific things he would like to see done. I'd also suggest that department leaders can have this too. currentley, all the department leaders do is make polls and do what the people want. we should give them more power by making it able for them to get thier views out in public in a big way.

Originally posted by duke o' york
I'm not sure if you can "home" caravans in all versions of Civ. There was a discussion about this many months ago in Civ 2 General, and I'll try to look it up, but I'm sure that certain versions don't let you get through this loophole.

[Edit]: I was wrong - it's not certain versions that won't let you chaneg the home of a caravan, it's just that you can't change it using the keyboard shortcut. And it all seems so easy now.
Here's the thread I mentioned: Starlifter's wisdom

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Duke:

Thanks for putting a link to that thread. I wonder whatever happened to Starlifter anyway. I would love to see what his analytical mind would discover in regards to Civ3!

Anyway, the post included some good points about intracity trade. If we do trade with our own cities (which is probably the best right now), let's not forget to make sure they have the proper connection via roads. Don't forget, the "proper" connnection is the one that the computer will follow during a 'goto' command.

Sorry that this thread has turned so trade-oriented.

Pellaken:

While I think that a "State of Fanatica" Address or various city leaders' "State of the City" addresses could be amusing and thoughtful, I have a feeling that they may end up becoming a large, general discussions where people would enact their responses (much like the "democratic response" or "republican response" in State of the Union Addresses). Perhaps this could be done and ther learders' views could be expressed with the caveat that responses were not to be given.

From the vote I see, the proposal passes.

This is only temperory, it get our economy moving, and our science strightened out, and regular polls will continue right after this is done.

We needed this for three reasons:

Sagging economy (the Caravans MUST go to Mongolia, for 2x continent bonus and 2x foriegn power bonus)

Speeding up population growth (via the settlers)

Rapidly building Mic's Chapel (that's what the food caravans are for)

We can produce additional trade caravans for intercity trading, in fact, I would like our trade minister to poll the people on that.

As far as trading current caravans, could you tell us what they are carrying? I'm sorry if this was said earlier - I'm just joining up now. We still may make more on trading within Fanatica if the demand is there in one of our own cities while not there in any Mongolian ones.

Is it possible to have a quick poll on what to do with the caravans we have now? I think this President poll #1 shows that we agree with the economic stimulus package as a whole - very wholeheartedly - but perhaps some of the details could be voted on.

Just thought I'd ask.

We can produce additional trade caravans for intercity trading, in fact, I would like our trade minister to poll the people on that.

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Is this not going to be a problem as we will need to see each screen regarding who's got what resource on demand & supply. The sheer volume of screens needed just to let the poeple have a chance of making an informed decision will be huge.

I think maybe in this case we should go with the trade minister's decision and know how. Maybe have some general rules or a hierachy of materials that we should always trade with. I suggest that the higher value items be made if there is a demand for it due to the increased cash.

Maybe if we had 3 polls for 1st, 2nd , 3rd choice of trade materials to give us an idea of the hierachy. We should also have these polls at regular intervals as city needs change over the course of history