Revisiting the Tax/Sci/Lux Rate

Well, we still have everyone content in our civilization without the need for luxuries. We are currently running 40% in taxes and 60% in science as well. We now make a healthy profit of 25 gold and have our turns to the next tech at 12. Pretty nice.

I will post a poll similar to this after every set of turns. It will keep us in the know and allow us to "tweak" the %ages when we wish.

I will also post another poll regarding the president's ability to add luxuries in time of civil unrest.

Anyway, I wanted everyone to know the results of changing our rates. If we were to lower taxes to 30% and raise science to 70%, our profit will be 9 gold per turn and our turn to next tech will be lowered to 10 turns.

I will put into this poll the option to actually add luxuries. Should this win out, I'll then post some options with different luxury rates included. However, since we don't need them right now, I would hope that everyone would agree that taxes and science should be our main concern.

Unlike other polls, I'd like to put in my 2 cents right up front. I advocate the boosting of our science as it will soon become imperative to generate a tech advantage. We will still have a profit being made, and those 2 turns less can make a huge difference.

Please also take into account that we now have a whopping 854 gold in our treasury.

not to reveal results, but after I voted there was 1 vote... do you not even vote on your own poll? is that illigal perhaps? or am I just confused again?

Originally posted by Pellaken
not to reveal results, but after I voted there was 1 vote... do you not even vote on your own poll? is that illigal perhaps? or am I just confused again?

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Actually, I do, Pellaken. Normally, however, I do not like to sway voting from the very start, so I'll usually vote after a while and some discussion. For the same reason I usually don't mention my overall views right away as well.

With this poll - and likely I'll do it later with some that I feel very strongly about - I already put my thoughts forward and I guess it was just habit that I did not vote right away. I'll get to it. Thanks for being so quick to put in your vote!

Would you care to elaborate on the two tech turns we'll win?
They'll cost 160gold in 10 turns!!
Isn't it a bit pricy?
I didn't vote yet, but I think we should keep it as it is. I'll want to understand your point first though.

We're attacking Rome, and we'll probably get Astronomy from them. That's why I think we should raise the science rate only after the invasion. We might even want to drop it a bit now. What do you think Kev?

For the military people. How long will it take for us to get astronomy from the Romans. I'm assuming they have it.

Edit: Highlight.

Are we still in a Monarchy, as I believe we are, or are we in a Republic yet? When we reach Republic then we should try to max the cities with WLTC days (Whack luxuries to colossal days ) but until then I think it'd be a waste.

Originally posted by Pggar
Would you care to elaborate on the two tech turns we'll win?
They'll cost 160gold in 10 turns!!
Isn't it a bit pricy?
I didn't vote yet, but I think we should keep it as it is. I'll want to understand your point first though.

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UPON EDIT: Please read my post after this one for thoughts on short-term issues!! Use this post as a general philosophy, but more immediate concerns are addressed in the next post.

I didn't wish to make it sound as if 12 to 10 turns would guarantee us a win - and looking back I don't think that's how I put it. I'm sorry for the confusion.

I agree with what I've seen all over the polls - especially of late: that science is what wins you games. I've always played this way, and my philospphy has always been to max science out unless there are extenuating circumstances (treasury very low, looking to buy some large and important cities, creates unrest or a deficit, etc.)

Here is why I advocate max science at this point in time:

1. While we are at war with several civs, we are still mostly concerned with infrastructure and, now, wonder building. With crusaders in a pre-gunpower era (with the ability to get dragoons soon, too), we can take cities by military rather than bribing.
2. We have built up a very nice treasury of 850+ gold. So much that in fact I will be posting a poll on rush buying items should we wish.
3. I mentioned building wonders. I totally understand that more cash can help us in the rushing of caravans for wonders, but I still feel the best way to take a lead in this area is to get the technology first. It seems miniscule, but two turns ahead can make a huge difference over time.
4. There exists the danger that one of our competitors could change to a republic soon. The AI does not have the happiness issues that the human does on Emperor, and could do so without the wonders like Mike's and Bach's and be very effective. Until we decide on republic, we may have to at least ensure tech parity.
5. Our income (and science for that matter) can and should be supplemented by commodity caravans.

Look, earning the extra cash can be very nice indeed, and I would be quite fine with leaving it the way it is or even boosting the taxes to produce a very nice surplus indeed. We could concentrate on rushing some caravans, building some wonders like Leo's and Bach's which will in turn maximize our military and allow for a Republic sooner.

The truth is that each has its pros and cons. I have my preference, but this is a democracy and the majority will rule. I am sorry if I put forth that my philosophy was the only right choice, it was not meant that way.

Originally posted by Pggar
We're attacking Rome, and we'll probably get Astronomy from them. That's why I think we should raise the science rate only after the invasion. We might even want to drop it a bit now. What do you think Kev?

For the military people. How long will it take for us to get astronomy from the Romans. I'm assuming they have it.

Edit: Highlight.

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Sorry, Pggar, I should have read on to this post as you make a very excellent point.

I did not check to see how far from Astronomy we are at the moment, and unfortunately I do not have the game on my work computer. Thank you for pointing this out, for it could make a serious difference in the very short run especially.

To explain for any who don't fully follow:

We are studying Astronomy right now, and the Romans have it. Should we discover it before we take the Roman city, then there is a chance that we will not be able to garner any technology when we DO take the city.

However, as Pggar wisely states, if we can very quickly strike and take the Roman city (along with Astronomy) BEFORE we discover that tech, then all those turns of studying is therefore applied to our next tech. We could then discover the next one in like 2 or 3 turns. If we are very close to discovering Astronomy, it could actually benefit us to lower the science (and add to taxes) for a short while to make sure we DON'T get Astronomy before we take the city. An excellent strategy.

Could someone let us know how far off we are from Astronomy right now? That could - and should - influence our decision.

And thanks, Pggar, for pointing all of this out. Perhaps we can max science AFTER this short term deal.

Originally posted by duke o' york
Are we still in a Monarchy, as I believe we are, or are we in a Republic yet? When we reach Republic then we should try to max the cities with WLTC days (Whack luxuries to colossal days ) but until then I think it'd be a waste.

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Yes Duke, still in a Monarchy. I think the consensus for the time being is to remain due to some possible military and city support. I also think that the majority wished to wait for Bach's to be added as well.

TO PGGAR AND OTHERS: I made another check on the game, and in my opinion we are way too close to Astronomy to effectively delay it long enough to be sure we obtain it from the Romans. We'd have to put it down to nearly 10 or 20% to guarantee. That's just an estimate as Civ2 won't really tell you the number of turns, but I feel pretty confident with that.

I still think that the Romans will have a tech to offer, though. I'd still suggest maxing science then and we'll hopefully take the city near the time the next one is done. Perhaps those will overlap.

I thinks its fine as it is, for now, but if anything changes, I thinks it should be a tax rise.

i think this is a good poll.My primary objective is that we aquire astronomy as soon as possible ,now mather what.While we are bickering here on the (relatively small) benifit of winning one tech extra by war to get a short leap ,the fact remain's that foureign powers are buildin copernicus ,and that Copernicus could give us a much greater science benifit than that one tech leap.While i'm not arguing that the leap wouldnt be interresting ,we should set our first priority to discover astronomy asap.In my oppinion that mean's that we should max the tech rate ,and if possible within that time frame try to steal the tech from another country.But by no mean's the tech theft should get priority above getting astronomy asap.

Originally posted by TheDuckOfFlanders
i think this is a good poll.My primary objective is that we aquire astronomy as soon as possible ,now mather what.While we are bickering here on the (relatively small) benifit of winning one tech extra by war to get a short leap ,the fact remain's that foureign powers are buildin copernicus ,and that Copernicus could give us a much greater science benifit than that one tech leap.While i'm not arguing that the leap wouldnt be interresting ,we should set our first priority to discover astronomy asap.In my oppinion that mean's that we should max the tech rate ,and if possible within that time frame try to steal the tech from another country.But by no mean's the tech theft should get priority above getting astronomy asap.

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Very good points, Duck.

I estimate that by maxing science we could probably get to Astronomy in like 3-4 turns so we should be fine there. I STILL think that the Romans have some tech that we could take by crushing Viroconium, so I hope that the military action still takes place.

I also think that we should mention techs by trade. Our Foreign Minister needs to check things out with other lands to see what can be swapped.