Military Department

Thought it was about time to tell you that I am still here...Here are my views on the situation.

For a start, I oppose any ideas of declaring war at the moment, as our reputation is already dishonourable. We are at war with the English (SE of Mpondo and Unkown City, as far as we know) and the Romans (Probably W of Viroconium) The rest (Zulus, Chinese and Mongols) are at peace, the Chinese are hostile.

I propose that we start building Pikemen and Settlers on the mainland, and get a few more cities established and protected on the continent of Viroconium, so when the Romans want their city back, we have the means to defend and oppose.

As for the English, I think we should make try to peace with them, and maybe get a bit of trade going, because an offencive would probably end tragically for us (The English have the Great Wall ) I think we should send a boat to explore around England.

Also, a couple of Established Embassies would be nice...

What about building a city S of Fort Pornstar? (Mainly so the AI doesn't decide to build there) 1 square NW of the whale would cover all the free land squares there. That island NE of THDP looks inviting too.

Since we have missed out on the Great Wall, I propose we construct city walls, especially in THDP, Olympia, Mpondo, Spycatcher, Unkown City, Viroconium, Dukeshire and possibly Cornmaster, Athenae and Fort Pornstar. These are what I see as domestically important cities (THDP, Olympia) and the others I see as strategically important, and vulnerable to attack.

Any suggestions?
Comments?
Want any polls?
All of the above?

I personally do not use city walls. I would much rather keep a reaction force near the cities. We have crusaders (and soon diplomats) that should be able to cover the cities quite well. If we do this right, the AI should never be able to get to a city and actually attack it.

Sometimes the AI uses the wise tactics of landing fast units and attacking in the same turn. This could be especially dangerous when dragoons and caravels or galleons comes around. Because of this I would feel much safer with some walls in important cities.

I agree with the settling of Virconium island. We should take full control of it fast. I also agree with the "no war" strategy. For now we desperately need to develp our infrastructure.

I don't think that we need to go to war actively for the time being. We don't need any more land until the settlement of the Viroconium island is complete and therefore ought not be aggressive toward the other civs. Obviously, events may mean that we will have to commence action at some point (such as the Adam Smith possibility I mentioned in another thread) but we should not actively pursue war for the time being. We should still prepare for it though, and ensure that our cities are properly defended and with a fast unit to mop up anyone foolish enough to try to start something (either a dip or a crusader). I do disagree that we should be worrying about our reputation though. By the time the AI civs are in a position to launch a concerted attack and gang up on us, we will be easily able to defend ourselves and take countermeasures where appropriate. I would like some more exploration though. Apart from that, things aren't going too badly militarily. Except the vast army all homed at Unknown City!!!!

Our military advisor is very wise when considering our situation with the English. Until metallurgy, that Great Wall will prove disastrous for us. However, if they still insist on landing units near our cities, we must do what is necessary. Units outside of cities are not protected by the GW

I'm not a big city wall person either - usually. My only concern here is really barbarians. I see where they've landed a fair amount of crusaders on a island to the NW. They are actually MUCH more likely to land a big batch of fast units and send them to attack - and they will use dragoons eventually. The AI will almost never send more than 2 fast units. They seem to love to send those sacrifical catapults and such.

I understand that gunpowder and Leo's will give us much better defense, but I've annoyingly lost cities to the barbs in the past even with 2 musketeers defending. City walls have an extra bonus vs. barbs, so maybe in the SSC this could be a possibility...

I seem to be in the majority as well about holding off on wars for a while. Not only will we have to watch our happiness (though Bach's will help GREATLY), but the Senate is bound to make themselves known. It would stink if we land crusaders somewhere and find that the Senate won't let us attack. You KNOW what will happen next: the AI, apparently unencumbered with any Senate no matter what the government, "sneak attacks" and bye-bye to our units. Then, when we send more to attack, they contact us and the dopes in the Senate agree to a cease fire. Then, in a cease fire, we find that we cannot ask AI units to leave our territory when they land there. We just have to sit there and wait for yet another sneak attack. It's a tough cycle

First, may I stretch to you my concern for the lack of barracks we have around the place. I see barracks as an extremely important improvement in Civ 2, (I build them 2nd after warrior, and when warrior is obsolete, I build barracks 1st then defencive unit, this is why you should invade with at least 1 defencive unit, or have one handy when you settle) In short I would like to have seen Sun Tzu's built by us, but no matter, we need to replace our defence with veteran units at least in TheHolyDuckPond and the capital Olympia.

My second gripe is once again about City Walls. I would like to see walls built at least in our important cities (Maily Olympia and TheHolyDuckPond) and possibly also our fronteirs (England and Italy)

I suggest that we make peace with the Romans so we can concentrate on keeping England at bay (an offencive against the English would be suicide with them having Great Wall) Or maybe we should try peace with the English? I just checked and our reputation is dishonourable, so peace is unlikely without compensation . Some military support over there would be nice, and possibly a new city and land development, but that is not my department so I'll leave that there.

Originally posted by Kev
the Senate is bound to make themselves known

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This is one of the reasons why I say we should make a dash for the Statue Of Liberty, and switch to Communism ASAP. I suggest building it in Fort Pornstar as it has plenty of production with all that forest around.



Comments?

I think peace could be a good idea, but not before we have stolen all the tech that we can. If there is a choice between war and cease fire, I would prefer war since the AI will otherwise litter our territory with units. I also agree with the city walls in Olympia and THDP, although walls in the latter city seems to be downprioritated by the majority in infavour to at least sewer system and trade caravans.

Thanks for jumping back into this job, Ren. It's a great help.

My thoughts:

I would always prefer peace over war unless it's time to go on the offensive. That being said, I don't think at this point we need to go out of our way to be sure that peace is established with anyone. I'd be happy to make a call or two, but if some of these civs want gold or tech to make peace I'd just say no.

We have a good defensive network right now, and Democracy ensures that we will not be bribed. So I'd be happy to "go with the flow" and let the AI declare war if they must. We'll make them pay should they do and likely drive them back to peace.

I voted "yes" to the wall thread for THDP. Again, I'm more worried about losing some coastal cities to the barbarians more so than the AI. I can see putting some up, and I'll try to sqeeze them in to at least some cities that have wonders whenever I can.

I happen to disagree about barracks. Nice enough to have early for those B.C. wars, but at this stage I try to go for more advanced troops. Perhaps a few good production cities later on can build a nice group of units.

I think that Leo upgrades will nix the veteran factor at this point as well as we've yet to get to riflemen and cavalry (which I believe are the endpoints for upgrades in either group).

I also disagree about Communism. It's a government I've never liked and I think that Democracy will serve us better. With Women's Suffrage and the UN, war in Democracy is fairly easy to navigate as they lessen the unhappiness and lessen the Senate's interference respectively. If we get the Statue of Liberty (which is not a definite), we might as well go Fundy, field an army of dips or spies, and really go nuts.

The MOI (duke) can revisit government choices if we get the SOL or discover other forms like communism or fundy.

Mission Codename:
Operation Overhorde

Briefing:
UFE has captured 4 Mongol cities, and the Inner Circle (that was our flashy name, wasn't it?) must lead the Empire to eventual triumph over the inferior.

Objectives:
(1) Defend the established homeland at all costs
(2) Defend Frontiers with the full extent of our military force
(3) Teach Genghis who's boss

Recommended Method Of Obtaining Objectives:
(1) Bribe at least one of those Partisans near Bokhara, use it to defend engineer in Tabriz while it constructs a rail link to Kashgar, and beyond
(2) Wait for re-enforcements to arrive in Kashgar via sea
(3) Worry about defence now, attack later

Comments:
See below...No, look further down than my signature

Originally posted by Ren

(3) Worry about defence now, attack later

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I didn´t think you were a whuz... j/k

I think we should use the fortress outside Basra as resting place for our attack force. Thus we could attack now, without having to wait for the engineer to complete any rails. The same method could then be used to advance deeper inside mongol territory. Adding a cruiser to our attack force would make it easier to capture Genghis evil headquarters in Karakorum.

I knopw that we are already at war with the Mongols and are looking to spread to another front with the Germans but I am tempted to take the Roman cities on the Virodukespicmark (sp?) isalnd too to prevent them from spoiling Dukeshire's production by constantly sending units there.
I reckon that there are only three or four Roman cities there and this would definitely ease the pressure on our cities. After all, it is rightfully our island . Once we have taken these cities then the Romans will be forced to make peace with us and we will have a little respite before we can make a proper assault on their island.

I was just looking at the game and I was suprised to see how close the Romans were and their rail road is too close to Dukeshire. Howeer the Germans do have some poorly defended cities so perhaps we should wait for the Germans to be destroyed and then take on the Romans.

I'm not suggesting that we take on the Romans as such. Just drive them off the continent. I have no intention to invade their main island at this stage of the game until we have finished elsewhere. We could use their cities in the future to stage our attack on the main island but just hold them for now and stop the ceaseless trickle of units toward Dukeshire. I note that Kev checked out Brundisium (?) with a spy and noticed that it only had a cannon for defence so would it be possible to take with a unit and then use the spy to bribe another city beyond it? Just a thought .

We could attack them all at the same time. Destroy the Mongols and Germans whilst taking out the Roman cities on our continent.

Wholeheartedly agree with using the fort outside Basra to hold our attacking force, negating the immediate need for rails (though keep building those rails!).

We need to finish operation overhorde before beginning any other operations.

Our next operation? I know the Germans are a tempting target, but they did just get conscription, which will make them a little tougher, and it is true Rome is the far bigger threat at the moment. I could support making Viroconium island our next objective. Unless someone can convince me we have sufficient forces and happiness under control I would not support doing that and attacking the Germans at the same time. ON the other hand, I don't consider Rome's constant trickle of units that big a threat, and in some ways easier than defending an entire coastline. Are the Romans and Germans in contact with each other? If so, then taking Germany may open up a new front against Rome, for good or bad.

Nice thoughts, Leowind.

The Germans and the Romans at one time signed the "Lugdunum" Pact to contain Fanatica aggression. They seem to be pretty chummy.

I would think that going east from the Trition Province (former Chinese land), of course you'll hit the Germans, but not soon after that the western edge of the Roman Empire. We could always use the German territory as a spring board. Of course, we know where their central cities are - including the capital - and could use our own cities as the springboard.

All in all, with the widespread trading of conscription, I have to think that the use of our cavalry will become relatively limited. The Mongols seem to have left enough cities open without city walls, but I have to figure that we'll be facing much greater resistance in the future. Further, Tactics should become available to the Romas soon, and once they start building alpine troops our cav will be in trouble - and figure that'll be on the trading block from the first moment.

My thinking is that we can do some very good work with cruisers and cavalry on the Mongol mainland to lessen their threat. Soon, we'll have automobile and the ability to build the almighty battleships followed closely by mobile warfare and tanks. Until then, we can celebrate, grow, rush some projects, and get prepared to flush the scene with more modern units. This can go on while we do some additional damage to the Mongols.

Basically, once we hit Robotics it'll be all over anyway.

To be short, I am against the sharing of a continent with other civs, therefore I think we should concentrate first on trying to capture the whole continents we have cities on: the mongol continent, the english continent and the viconium continent. Once we have done that we can decide whose head we will put next on the chopping-block.

Originally posted by civ1-addict
To be short, I am against the sharing of a continent with other civs, therefore I think we should concentrate first on trying to capture the whole continents we have cities on: the mongol continent, the english continent and the viconium continent. Once we have done that we can decide whose head we will put next on the chopping-block.

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But that will mean taking on 3 empires without wiping them out before we finish, which is asking for trouble...

I agree with Ren. Fewer players means less trouble. The Enlish are no threat, and the Romans a minor nuisance as things stand. Neither had any real chance of doing damage as long as we maintain our defenses sufficiently. Reduce the Mongols to inconsequential before we move on.

Yeah, Ren and Leowind are right. We should focus on reducing the mongols to their one pet city (or the 3-4 pet cities we don´t know where they are..). Even karakorum with its city walls should prove no problem once we bring our fleet to the area. One cruiser will be finished in Joespaniel next turn and is enough if we are lucky. And battleships will be availible in three turns...

Kev has already acted upon opportunity fire to clean Viroconoum island from Romans anyway. goodjob Since the English are no threat at all, we could settle for the occasional bribery if prices are right. One thing to consider is IMO to build some warships to reinforce the Europa province. A cruiser or a battleship would do wonders to defend our coastline from roaming English frigates and ironclads. They don´t threaten our cities yet, but are a considerable danger to our engineers.