How should the chat turns be revamped?

Proposal:

1. Only citizens of the demogame will be voiced.
2. Citizens are encouraged to provide constructive advice & positively contribute to the chat. They can also take part in any Citizen Spot Poll.
3. The Designated Player reserves the right to use Cabinet Votes instead of Citizen Spot Polls.
4. Spaming, lobbying, repetive questions and any other unnecessary traffic in the chat is forbidden.
5. Clones are not allowed!
6. Violations of the chat rules will result in the offender being devoiced.
7. The chat operators hold the right to devoice all non-officials if the chat gets too confusing or is disturbed by someone permanently. The decision for this is taken by the Designated Player.
8. Devoicing actions and the exclusion of Citizen Spot Polls will be investigated in the forum.
9. During turn-chat, #civfanatics is still open for totally free discussions. Departments or special interest groups can also open private discussion rooms.

EDIT: Violations are investigated in the Public Investigation Thread. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...&threadid=22674

This topic was debated in this thread.

Poll start:15:45 GMT Monday May 20
Poll end: 15:45 GMT Wednesday May 22

As a previous poll indicated that the chat turns needed to be changed, an option to keep them the same is not included in this poll.

maybe in point 8) you should include a link to the "public investigation" thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22674

Originally posted by disorganizer
maybe in point 8) you should include a link to the "public investigation" thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22674

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Edited to note this.

I voted 'other'. The main role of the president is to play the game and the turn chat is hampering the president.

I think the 'turn chat' should be used only for pre-turn stuff with no actual turns being played. The president should be allowed to play the game according to his or her own real life schedule.

I actually like Donsig's idea, the more I think about it. How about a designated chat, like a Cabinet Meeting, to do all the pre-turn stuff, and maybe even go one turn if needed to get information. Then the president takes the remaining turns at his/her timeframe, and reports back on the results. It allows the input of the cabinet for the organization and build queues, etc. but lets the president be president! Also, in cases like Eryei, etc, that cant make the turn chat or cant play and chat at the same time, they could still be president, even if they have to have a chat rep.

(BTW that means I vote other)

Good work with the tweaking of the turn chats!

I am for this proposal, as it is a good improvement on our previous system. However, I admit to being overly passionate & rash in my previous posts on the turn chat, I am now seeing how it negatively affects the game too.

It does handcuff the President because they may lose control of the game in the chat. It also forces them to play the game while being able to chat, not something everyone can do. It also ties them down to a time they may not be able to make, for whatever reason (and there are many last-minute reasons a person may miss a chat). This can lead to a big mess, especially when the problems combine.

When it works, I think it is beautiful. Kinda like listening to my favourite sports team on the radio. And, once in a while, I get to put a say into something or role play a bit. It also adds a bit to the democratic feel to the game, I think, because the people there can speak up.

I can't imagine what being the President is like, because I haven't been there. I played 1 round, but the attendence was low that time & rather quiet, so it was pretty simple to proceed. I'm not sure what I'm saying in this post, only that I agree with the proposal, cause I like it better than what we have, but see the possible benefits of removing them altogether. I'm not sure I could part with them easily though...

Should we repoll? With both shaitans proposal and dosings , becouse I have already voted for shaitans proposal but I like dosings more

Originally posted by crabapple
Should we repoll? With both shaitans proposal and dosings , becouse I have already voted for shaitans proposal but I like dosings more

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You can change your vote. PM the Duke of Marlbrough.

A discussion can be opened for Donsig's idea and if it has merit with the populace a new poll for that idea can be held. Remember though that turn 0 generally takes up the majority of the chat time. If there's a chat turn for turn 0 then the President must still be able to play while being able to chat.

I second donsig's proposal, and move for further discussion of the possible merits of that idea.

The one thing you mentioned not doing - lobbying. It's a part of real life democracy, and it would give citizens a bit more voice. Without it, citizens may feel that they can watch, but not chat for fear of someone saying "You're lobbying!".

If they can give opinions, I think we should redifine 'lobbying'.
BTW, I voted 'other', since this is the one issue I'm concerned about.

Originally posted by Chieftess
The one thing you mentioned not doing - lobbying. It's a part of real life democracy, and it would give citizens a bit more voice. Without it, citizens may feel that they can watch, but not chat for fear of someone saying "You're lobbying!".

If they can give opinions, I think we should redifine 'lobbying'.
BTW, I voted 'other', since this is the one issue I'm concerned about.

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Personally, I think opinions, whether from citizens or officials should be posted on the forum rather than expressed during the turn chat. It is quite possible to get a group of people at the chat that hold opinions contrary to that of the rest of the citizens, which can cause the player to take actions that are not the will of the people. If opinions are posted on the forum, and polls are opened, we can be reasonably sure that the view of the majority of citizens is upheld. Even without a poll, more of our population can post on the forum than can make the chat turn, making it far more likely that both sides of an issue are heard, and neither is shouted down, so to speak.

As the topic was discussed actively for over 48 hours and then sat idle for almost 4 days and a clear majority of voters support the proposal, I am keeping the poll open. I recommend that the interested parties begin a new discussion thread for this idea and reference this poll and the original discussion thread. If that idea proves merit another poll can be held for it.

Clarification: I don't want to stifle anybody's creativity or input, that's why I always include the "Other" option when possible. If "Other" and "Get rid of it" aggregate to more than "Use the proposal" then the proposal will not be carried as it would not have the support of a majority of the voters. At the moment a very large majority support the proposal.

If no one else starts a discussion thread about a turn 0 turn chat I will try to come up with a more concrete starting point for such a thread and start one later.

In the mean time I want to point out that I do not think we must choose between having turn chats or not having them. I think it should be up to the president. If he wants them then ok, if not then that's ok as well. If he does want them then he should hold them at his convenience, not ours.

Originally posted by donsig
In the mean time I want to point out that I do not think we must choose between having turn chats or not having them. I think it should be up to the president. If he wants them then ok, if not then that's ok as well. If he does want them then he should hold them at his convenience, not ours.

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I think the way it works is the president gets to choose the time, not whether or not we have them. As many citizens do support the turn chats in one form or another, we should have them. However, this may change if a different time is set.....

I'm with Shaitan. The poll should remain. I am against the President playing a private game. It should be done with discussion with others in a chat environment while being recorded in a chat log. If you want to make it convenient for the Prez, then allow him to set up a small chat with other Dept. Leaders. This is a good system and we are now "tweaking" it to see if we can make it better. Let's not go in two directions at once. Let's try this and see if it works.

Vote changed from 'For' to 'Other', by request.

This poll has closed. Voters have given support to the proposal and it will be passed to the Council for ratification.