naval power mod

NAVAL POWER MOD by Kettyo for Civilization III by Firaxis Games Inc.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ver. 1.22


I've created another conservative mod (without new units,buildings,civs etc.) based on player1's superb patch suggestion (C). It's most recommended for those who like to play on large and huge worlds with low land mass for most interesting naval battles (like me).
It contains sevorak's city name mod (C).
Marla Singer's World Map (C) ver. 1.18 with naval power mod rules and correct starting locations included.

I post it here just for ideas on possible flaws and maybe some feedback.
Maybe even someone will like it...

These are the changes i made on 1.3 version of player1's mod.
(See readme_player1.txt for player1's changes on 1.29f)



-all combat units have double of the default hit points
this way the randomizer has less impact on the outcome of wars
according to this bombard strenght values of all units are double of the default too

-naval units movement changes
caravel: 3-›4
privateer: 3-›4
frigate: 4-›5
manowar: 4-›5
galleon: 4-›5
ironclad: 4-›5
transport: 5-›7
carrier: 5-›7
submarine: 3-›5
destroyer: 5-›7
battleship: 5-›7
aegis cruiser: 5-›7
nuclear sub: 4-›7

-air units changes
fighter oprange 4-›6, 6 attack, 4 defense, lethal land/naval bombing
bomber oprange 6-›8, 4 defense
jetfighter oprange 6-›8, 12 attack, 8 defense, rate of fire 3
stealthfighter oprange 6-›8, rate of fire 3, no lethal bombing
f15 oprange 6-›8, 12 attack, 8 defense, rate of fire 3, bombing strenght 3
stealthbomber cost 24-›22
helicopter defense value is 3, oprange 6
paratroopers oprange 6

-following planes have recon ability
bomber,stealth bomber

-following units have detect subs ability
fighter,jet fighter,f-15,carrier
(carrier's ability represents helicopter patrols around the carrier not a cutting-edge sonar)

-other changes to naval units
ironclad: costs 10
submarine: defense 4-›6,carries 1 footsoldier
destroyer: attack 12-›10,cost:12-›10
nukesub: defense 4-›7,attack 10-›11,cost:14-›18,carries 2 missiles (incl. nuclear)
cruiser: defense 10-›11,cost 16-›18,carries 2 cruise missiles
carrier: carries 8 planes,cost 18-›32
(the graphic shows nimitz class so be really huge)
battleship: carries 1 cruise missile

-cruise missile is now immobile and can rebase (like planes)

-from catapult up bombarding land units get defense values to be counter-bombardable and could be bombed by planes (though they can't be captured anymore)
cannon: 1 defense
artillery: 1 defense
radar artillery: 2 defense

-archer,bowman and longbowman have defensive bombardment ability

-cossacs defense increased to 5 (from 4)

-military academy doesn't require a victorious army
-army costs 40

-scout,explorer,leader set as footunit

-panzer is wheeled unit (corrected bug)

-ironclad is available with industrialization

-jaguar warrior upgrade to horseman
chariot is removed from the aztec unit build list

-the great wall gives walls in every cities under size 7 on the continent
costs 40

-magellan's voyage doesn't increase naval movement speeds but gives a harbor to all coastal cities
costs 60

-workers efficiency doubled in communism

-spaceship parts cost 50% more

-steal technology costs default 10

-no bonus against barbarians at all difficulty levels
-corruption levels decreased a bit at difficulty levels below emperor


Happy civing and thanks for any feedbacks.


version 1.22 uploaded on 19.10.2002

Is that possible to change the appearance of stealth bombers?
This flying wing looks strange onboard a carrier.
I would like a small-class modern bomber graphic more.

I don't think that Bombers and Stealth Bombers should have the ability to see subs. After all, they are flying way up there and would not be looking for subs. I would give the ability to the destroyer though and take it away from the carrier - never mind, since you can not base helos on carriers I guess your point is valid. Forgot about that.

I think that I would give the old disel sub the ability to carry 1 foot soldier. Think special forces, most covert landings are made from disels, as opposed to nukes, since they are quieter in shallow waters than nukes. (Of course, the US navy no longer has them so you cannot look to them for reference.)

Anyway, the rest looks okay to me.

Why don't you guys just change this in the bic file? Then you could have everything the way you want it.

Thank You for response sealman.

It would be best to add in a recon plane with the ability to fly 3 recon missions in one turn.
But unfortunately it's impossible now. For some reason flying a recon mission takes up all movement points so it's no use to have a recon plane now.
So fighters or bombers remain.
Fighters are an even more wrong choice IMO. No fighter is capable of searching for subs in reality AFAIK. Maybe WW1 biplanes looking for subs. But giving it to non-jet fighters would mean they can look for nukesubs also so it's no good.
And the planes really capable of detecting subs are bigger than fighter (small bomber size) planes such as p3c-orion of u.s.navy (you know the one with the big plate over it) and the russian navy also has same kind of planes (don't know the name sorry), That's one thing.
Another reason for bombers instead of fighters is that reconing for subs won't decrease self-defense capability but will decrease the offensive capability which is also better for gameplay reasons.
Stealth bomber might look wrong at first sight but at the endgame you'll use mostly stealth bombers on carriers so you'll need the ability to look for subs with your (stealth) bombers.

The idea of troop carrying sub is superb. I shall do it.


Moss321,

Sorry but i don't understand what you're talking about.

There's new version 1.01 downloadable from above.

-submarine carries 1 footsoldier and costs 12
-leader,explorer,scout set to footunit
-history file added

Originally posted by sealman
I would give the ability to the destroyer though and take it away from the carrier - never mind, since you can not base helos on carriers I guess your point is valid. Forgot about that.

Click to expand...

Giving the 10 moving destroyer the ability to see subs would make the 6 moving submarine rather useless IMO. And when increasing the cost of this new destroyer it would be too similar to the cruiser, most of the people would build cruisers, just 2 tiles lower movement but better stats and missile capable.
Don't you think that's true?

I think the subs are too fast and strong. Historically, subs were always slower than surface ships, and not too hard to sink once spotted.

yeah, but remember... stealth bombers can't take off from a carrier in actual real life... only the bomber COULD be able to, and it would need a tal hook and the other hook that catches it when it lands..
also, to counter this, stealth bombers can travel quite far distances. example, when bush was elected and in office, he sent three stealth bombers from missouri to iraq and did it all in one night. really, make the planes move like in civ2.. hehe..

Originally posted by Sodak
I think the subs are too fast and strong. Historically, subs were always slower than surface ships, and not too hard to sink once spotted.

Click to expand...

I think modern subs could have similar cruise speed to a merchantship. OK you have a point here. Maybe it's more realistic for nukesub to be as fast as the transport. So be it.
The defensive value (which mostly depends on speed and maneuverability of the sub) therefore also lowered by 1 point.

I hope they won't be too fast and strong now.
But i wouldn't like to have ironclads sinking undamaged subs (like in standard civ3 rules).

New version 1.03 could be downloaded from here or above.

Changes from 1.01:

-nuclear sub moves 7 and has a defense value of 7


(download new version at the top of thread)

Originally posted by explodin dog
stealth bombers can travel quite far distances... really, make the planes move like in civ2.. hehe..

Click to expand...

Of course i know there's no any stealth bomber capable to land on carrier in real life. But you can't increase an air unit's operational range above 8 tiles in the civ3 editor so you'll need to use your carriers. (that's why i look for a graphic which better fits)
And it's impossible to make civ1/2-like planes because there's no fuel option in the editor.

Originally posted by kettyo


it's impossible to make civ1/2-like planes because there's no fuel option in the editor.

Click to expand...

Actually im pretty sure that there is a way, but it cannot be done in the editor.

Originally posted by Soviet beast


Actually im pretty sure that there is a way, but it cannot be done in the editor.

Click to expand...

Yeah maybe, but i definitely won't be the one who find this out.

Originally posted by Soviet beast


Actually im pretty sure that there is a way, but it cannot be done in the editor.

Click to expand...

Hi. This is my first time reading this thread.
I wrote a tutorial in the tutorials section about changing the way planes behave in the game. Yes, you CAN use the editor to do it.

What you need to do to make your planes move outside of cities is....
- take off immobile flag in the abilities list
- give it a bigger move factor (like 8)
- give it "Invisible" ability (or "submarine" in pre-1.21 versions)
- give it a slightly larger defense (optional)

this will let you move planes outside of cities. you can fly over land or water, and you won't be detected (submarines are the only default units that can see the planes) They do not even need to stop for fuel.

Also, I've created a naval mine unit (see link in signature) I think you may find this new unit useful for your "naval power" mod. You may use it as long as you give me credit for the unit in the readme.

Originally posted by pesoloco
this will let you move planes outside of cities. you can fly over land or water, and you won't be detected (submarines are the only default units that can see the planes) They do not even need to stop for fuel.

Click to expand...

But it will make carriers rather useless and gives the possibility to gather huge airforces in any places of the world (without using carriers).
I would use moving planes only with fuel calculated just like in civ 1 and 2.

Originally posted by pesoloco
Also, I've created a naval mine unit (see link in signature) I think you may find this new unit useful for your "naval power" mod. You may use it as long as you give me credit for the unit in the readme.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your naval mine unit. It's a very interesting idea and i shall consider testing it when the AI would have the same capability in using them.

Thank you for your response to my mod once more.

New version 1.1 is now downloadable from above !

-compatible with 1.29f patch
-updated to patch suggestion mod ver. 1.3 (C)
-helicopters transport 2 foot units
-paratroopers now have operational range of 8 tiles
-sevorak's cityname mod ver. 3.16 (C) is included
-ironclad now available with industrialization
-magellan's voyage now doesn't increase naval movement speeds
but gives a harbor to all coastal cities and costs 60

Happy civing boys and girls !

I've updated the mod to 1.11.
Updated version could be downloaded above.

Just some bugfix related to the new patch.

On the topic of subs at flank, the type vii of the Kreigsmarine sailed at 18 knots. soviet alfa's at 43 knots could out run any other naval vessel aside from torpedo boats. the USN's seawolfs have a top speed of 35+ knots. the 688's had a flank of 30+ knots, (as do the russian akulas). i can't remember about the trafalgars, but they were a little slower, but extremely quiet. I think Ohio and typhoon classes are 25-30 knots.
nimitz class carriers-about 28-30 knots. nearly all surface vessels are about 28-30 knots. nuclear subs should be about as fast as fleet vessels

Wow!

Thank You Michael for this info on reality.

So do you think that it would be much closer to reality to set all motorized ships and the nukesub to move 7 and the older sub to move 5?
When this is reality i shall rebalance the naval units (mainly cost) according to the modified movement values.

Version 1.12 is now downloadable from above !

Quite frequent updates, sorry !


-carrier,destroyer and aegis cruiser now have 7 movement

-submarine now has 5 movement

-submarine now costs 10, and nuclear sub costs 18

-AI aggressiveness levels have been set back to standard levels
(for evaluating standard AI behavior under 1.29f,
when they'll be still too pacifistic, i'll boost them up again)


When many of you'd like the previous movement values back then there'd be no problem.