Citizen Discussion : Abolish Slavery

Rain · Jun 3, 2002

I wish to raise the issue of the plight of captured citizen's of foreign nationalties toiling in the mines and projects of our country. Surely a nation as great as our own can rise above the enslavement of foreign people's. How can our nation become truly great when slavery exists within its borders.

Presently we are experiencing a lack of labour because the oligarchy has refused to recruit and pay citizens to help improve our public transportation and irrigation.

As part of the National Employment Effort I urge the the abolishment of slavery! Let the slaves become productive citizens of our great nation. As our citizenry grows we will have more workers who are more productive.

As part of the process of freedom let each city that builds a worker assimilate a freed slave.

In the future we should establish a program of freeing refugees from slave status when wars end.

Make Phoenetica a land of the FREE!

:egypt:

donsig · Jun 3, 2002

This is not such a bad idea Rain. It encourages our governors to build workers by allowing foreign nationals to replace lost population. The idea should be used with care though since Phoenatican workers demand higher wages!

disorganizer · Jun 3, 2002

if a worker joins a city, doesnt it still have its nationality? ist then the next worker again a foreign worker if made in the cite the foreign worker joined?
we will get foreign citizens this way, which would be bad if we go to war some day with this nation.
another idea would be to make phoenatican workers and trade the foreign workers for good relations ;-) ->give them back to their origin.

Rain · Jun 3, 2002

to answer your questions donsig

yes the ciitzen retains his nationality for the time being
no the workers produced will be phoenician normally

More generally, yes there is the potential for unhappiness should we become embroiled in fuure wars of aggression. However, the progress of pheonatica should not be handicapped by a fear of the rise of hawkish military administration. Further we would not overload a city with freed slaves. Our obejct is to assimilate them properly into cities with adequate infrastructure to ensure the happiness of all citzens be they freeborn or landed immigrants.
It is the right of all citizens to be happy and captured citizens of other nations must be given equal treatment.

:egypt:

Marcus Magnus · Jun 3, 2002

We must free the slaves, but gradually, to enable assimilation. Or we could trade them back. Besides, they are inefficient.

Zur · Jun 3, 2002

I am against this idea.

1) They are not slaves. They are foreign workers working in our empire. True, we captured some of them but we also paid for others to work for us and over time, they have learned to live in harmony with other Pheonaticians.

2) We are paying for their food and lodging. (Hey, they need to live right?) and they are enjoying the benefits of living in our empire.

3) We should not attempt to "assimilate" them into our cities but instead encourage cultural diversity.

4) We have to pay higher maintenance.

Also, we're a democracy, not an oligarchy.

Rain · Jun 3, 2002

Also, we're a democracy, not an oligarchy

Thats a matter of opinion atm :egypt:

They are not slaves. They are foreign workers working in our empire. True, we captured some of them but we also paid for others to work for us and over time, they have learned to live in harmony with other Pheonaticians.

They receive no compensation for thier work hence its slave labour. The purchased ones are just purchased slaves.

2) We are paying for their food and lodging. (Hey, they need to live right?) and they are enjoying the benefits of living in our empire.

Again we pay nothing. There is no benefit to living as a slave. The fact that other nations engage in this practice does not justify it.

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eyrei · Jun 3, 2002

Again we pay nothing. There is no benefit to living as a slave. The fact that other nations engage in this practice does not justify it.

It is preferable to living in Babylon.

punkbass2000 · Jun 3, 2002

I'm against this. It will cost time and money and give nothing.

philippe · Jun 3, 2002

)well i think they are happier in this fantastic empire then in a stupid country like china(in civ3

)
and their cheap.
of course their lazy so we should better use them for colonies
or for roads. :cool:

.
keep the slaves in their chains!

Rain · Jun 3, 2002

Originally posted by punkbass2000
I'm against this. It will cost time and money and give nothing.

This is false - by making workers more productive we will enhance our improvement of projects. Slave labour is very inefficient.

Your economic argument is just another example of the desire of the ruling elite to fatten their purses at the expense of the welfare and well-being of others. Slavery does not make our nation great. It is a blot on our national image. :egypt:

Curufinwe · Jun 3, 2002

If all of our cities are going to be building our own workers, then we can give our slaves back.

Falcon02 · Jun 3, 2002

Some practical questions....

A.) Do we pay maitenance on Foreign workers like native workers?
(I think we do)

B.) are Native workers more productive than Foreign?
(I don't think so)

Unless the awnser to BOTH of these is yes (and I'm wrong), then I see no practical reason to do this. Why not build more native workers and have them work along side the foreign (with the exception of the slavery issue).

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Immortal · Jun 3, 2002

B.) are Native workers more productive than Foreign?
(I don't think so)

Yes, they are (numerous discussions in CivIII general area I recall)

punkbass2000 · Jun 3, 2002

Native workers are twice as productive. However, two times zero is zero, which still less than one. It will cost less to keep the foreign workers than to get rid of them. They will probably only sell for 20-40 gold, which means that after a few turn chats will be losing money off the transaction. Plus, this is time when we need workers, as we will soon need to build a vast rail-system. I'm not opposed to building more workers (in fact, I support it) but I am opposed to selling workers we already have. Two foreign workers are as good as one native, and cost infinitely less.

Plexus · Jun 3, 2002

Thier contries made the mistake of attacking our nation. I do not beleive Ameri can agree with this measure.

Immortal · Jun 3, 2002

Originally posted by punkbass2000
but I am opposed to selling workers we already have. Two foreign workers are as good as one native, and cost infinitely less.

Yes, I most definitely agree with you

Zur · Jun 3, 2002

Punkbass:Native workers are twice as productive. However, two times zero is zero, which still less than one. It will cost less to keep the foreign workers than to get rid of them.

Exactly.

Rain: Slavery does not make our nation great.

They are not slaves! (ok, maybe this is a matter of opinion, but if it is debatable, then let's not treat them as slaves.)

Rain:Your economic argument is just another example of the desire of the ruling elite to fatten their purses at the expense of the welfare and well-being of others.

The whole of Pheonatica gains, not just the "ruling elite".

Plexus · Jun 3, 2002

Aren't most of us the ruling elite?

punkbass2000 · Jun 3, 2002

Well, I know I'm elite

Citizen Discussion : Abolish Slavery

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