Public Investigation #6: Chat Poll Ignored (guilty/unguilty)

Did donsig ignore the results of a spot-poll?

  • Yeah he did

    Votes: 12 42.9%

  • Nope he did not

    Votes: 12 42.9%

  • Abstain

    Votes: 4 14.3%
  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

disorganizer

Deity
Joined
Mar 30, 2002
Messages
4,233
This is the guilty/unguilty poll for Public Investigation #6.

On the turn chat of June 12th, donsig as designated player called a spot-poll and then ignored the results.
This poll shall find him guilty or ungulty of the accusition, evidence was brought up in the thread mentioned above.

"Yeah" shall find him gulty, "Nope" unguilty. And of course you can "Abstain" the poll.

Discussion about the measures we should take if "Yeah" wins should be in here. You can also propose measures if not voting "Yeah".

The poll will be up for 4 days till Monday. Then, if found guilty, from the discussion i will extract a list of measures to be put in a poll up for another 2 days.

REMEMBER:
WE DO NOT VOTE ABOUT WHETER STOPPING OR NOT STOPPING WAS RIGHT.
WE DO NOT VOTE ABOUT WHETER CALLING A SPOT-POLL WAS RIGHT.
WE DO NOT VOTE ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION.
 
I question the wording of the poll. Most of our other investigative polls have been phrased as guilty or non-guilty. This one seems to go a step further.

No matter, as the wording helped me to vote NO.

I think in the thread accompaning the investigation donsig clearly showed that he didn't ignore the poll at all. He was well aware of the results, and chose to not follow them. He just correctly assumed that such a decision would be better handled in the public forums.

Regardless, since many Phoenaticans wish to spill the blood of our President, having failed to accomplish that task with the earlier investigation, then I propose a guilty verdict be a reprimand, versus any further action.

Finally, when you vote, I ask all Phoenaticans to consider not just the narrow interpretation that the honorable disorganizer is advocating in this poll, but do consider the constitutional issues, and the reality that donsig was acting on behalf of all Phoenaticans. That is what is truely on trial here.

Bill
...in PDX
 
I know you campaign a constitutional debatte here, but the court is not the place for politics bill.
Open a discussion thread for this please.

The consitution is there, the constitution must be followed. A poll was called and held, and the results were ignored (if i would get literal even 2 times, but i dont want to extend this).

Now to the topic:
My proposals for punishment-options:
a) first and final warning
b) impeachment
 
I think the only punishment that suits this "crime" is a slap on the wrist.
 
@eyrei: well, that not on our catalogue though. only the "slap around with the 3 books of the constitution". but this really hurts, as they are big!
 
Originally posted by disorganizer
@eyrei: well, that not on our catalogue though. only the "slap around with the 3 books of the constitution". but this really hurts, as they are big!
Click to expand...

As I recall, being slapped around with the constitution really does hurt. :eek:
 
Originally posted by eyrei
As I recall, being slapped around with the constitution really does hurt. :eek:
Click to expand...
I would know. disorganizer slammed me with it about a dozen times already... ;)
 
he didn't ignore the poll at all. He was well aware of the results, and chose to not follow them.
Click to expand...

Bill Im really having trouble understanding that, I think I know what you tried to say but maybe you should reword that. Taken literally it is contradictory...
 
I think he meant noticed the poll, rather than ignoring it. But, it's still not following through on the polls. The poll was to trade medicine, which passed, and was not followed up on.
 
And the thing is the following:
If he would not have called for this poll and just stopped the game (as eyrei resuested btw), this would have been no problem and we would not vote here. So stopping is not the topic.
But donsig called the poll on the purpose to have it say "no" to the trade and then continue the chat without coming to the forum to ask citizenry. As the poll did not go his way, he suddenly stopped the chat.
This is a clear ignoring of the poll.
 
Originally posted by disorganizer
But donsig called the poll on the purpose to have it say "no" to the trade and then continue the chat without coming to the forum to ask citizenry. As the poll did not go his way, he suddenly stopped the chat.
This is a clear ignoring of the poll.
Click to expand...

I'm, not sure if it is appropriate for me to post here but since the debate continues and my motives are being posted by someone else I think it is only fair for me to be able to speak for myself.

I did not call the vote on the trade in order to have it defeated. I do not call spot votes to pass my agenda or to defeat someone else's. I called the spot vote because Cheitfess and punkbass2000 asked for one.

I did not stop the chat because the poll did not go my way. I stopped the chat because after more than an hour of debate it became more and more clear to me that we were (as eyrei pointed out) at a possible turning point and everything - especially our wonder building program - should be debated in the forums.

It is one thing to judge my actions based on the letter of the constitution and quite another to do so based on my motives especially those ascribed to me by someone else!
 
It is one thing to judge my actions based on the letter of the constitution and quite another to do so based on my motives especially those ascribed to me by someone else!
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, at this time we are voting about a violation of the former, not the latter. Despite my personal opinions about your motives, I voted yes, as there must be objectivity to these votes. You had the peoples interests at heart, but that is not the focus of the investigation. The focus was (according to what I read) that the constitutional rules for turn chat operator, and of President may have been violated. And under these circumstances, I find that they were in fact violated.

EDIT: I don't really think ANYONE, in favour or against the vote should post in here, but because everyone else does, and because it is not Disallowed, we will continue to do so.
 
I waded through that last hour in the chat logs. I think donsig was morally right to stop the game without implementing the results of the poll. However, despite my belief that he did so with the best interest of Phoenatica at heart, he did violate the constitution in the process.

My recommendation for punishment would be a warning - the closest thing we have to a slap on the wrist.
 
You guys ready for more stuff to talk about?

I'm seriously thinking of eliminating the spot votes in the chat. Many of you wonder why there are so few citizens in this game...? The game is being decided in the chat, by a few number of people. I'm also deciding whether to eliminate the chat entirely.

If you have any views on it, post them here.


Somewhat more on topic, I would also like to remind everyone that I decide the 'punishment' that a player receives. See Section J, Article 4.

Have a nice day. :)
 
Okay, I'm way over my head now. I've read 2 pages of the investigation thread, tried to reply to a ridiculous statement and discovered that it was closed? Why in the world would an active thread with 5 pages of replies in a little over 2 days be closed?!?

This poll is very poorly formatted. Dis, these HAVE to be a uniform format. There is no other way to be fair and objective. You know I approve of the investigation threads as a check on politics but this poll is very poorly done.

That said, Donsig is guilty of violating an article of the constitution. What should we do about it? Give him a freaking medal!!! He called the poll when there was a conversational lull after just about no comment on the subject. AFTER the poll was called a great deal of conflict arose. He very wisely terminated the game and sent the whole problem back to the Forum for a solution.
 
Originally posted by Shaitan
That said, Donsig is guilty of violating an article of the constitution. What should we do about it? Give him a freaking medal!!! He called the poll when there was a conversational lull after just about no comment on the subject. AFTER the poll was called a great deal of conflict arose. He very wisely terminated the game and sent the whole problem back to the Forum for a solution.
Click to expand...

Hehe. I almost nominated him for an award shortly afterwards, but thought it might have been going to far.;)
 
Not guilty. Or "nope" as this poll specifies.

No violation of the Constitution occured. The prosecution alleges that donsig violated the results of a poll. This did not happen. No action was taken. There was a monumentous amount of discussion but no action occured. The poll results will be in effect when the game resumes (unless preempted by a later poll, of course).

If this was a murder trial then the "victim" would have just walked into the courtroom.

I will instruct the moderators to change my vote from Abstain to Nope. I also encourage others to reevaluate their votes in light of the lack of an infraction.
 
Originally posted by Shaitan
Why in the world would an active thread with 5 pages of replies in a little over 2 days be closed?!?
Click to expand...

Once the poll thread was opened, the discussion thread was requested to be closed. I'm assuming to keep the discussions all in the same thread since once the poll is open, no one really ever goes back to the discussion thread. ;)


This poll is very poorly formatted. Dis, these HAVE to be a uniform format. There is no other way to be fair and objective. You know I approve of the investigation threads as a check on politics but this poll is very poorly done.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I must agree. In light of this and previous polls, I have to enforce one of my earlier statements. From now on, once a discussion thread has been held and there is found to be reason for a poll thread, please post so in the Needed Stuff thread and I will post the poll. These matters need to be done in an impartial manner and that is not happening.
 
Donsig clearly did ignore the results of the spot vote.

Article 2: Polled council votes will last a minimum of 48 hours or until all council members have responded or until a plurality of all council members have carried or passed the measure. Spot votes (in the Turn Chat) will be tallied and carried immediately. [Modified May 17, 2002]
Click to expand...

Looks like the keyword here is immediately. That, they were not!
 
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