Power to the People Organization (PPO)

disorganizer · Jun 14, 2002

As the public wing of the "Peoples Freedom Army of Phoenatica (PFAP)", we will do almost everything for implementing more freedom for our citizens. But we must condemn the rude methods of our more right wing, the "Radical Revolt for Phoenatica (RRP)".

Out manifests:
1) give all power to citizenry
more polls! on all issues of the game!
2) reduce governmental positions
best to be without it. but a few will be needed
3) minimalization of rules
the less rules we have, the better they must be and the easier the game will run

If you want to Sign in, state below.
If you want to discuss a topic, please state a link to a discussion thread below.
If you want to discuss in general, feel free to do in here.

disorganizer · Jun 14, 2002

Disorganizer
Lovro
Major Guevara
Chieftess
Immortal
trade/warrior
chiefpaco
Phoenix

Lovro · Jun 14, 2002

Count me in. :goodjob:

Major Guevara · Jun 14, 2002

Im in too. Power to the people!!!

Strider · Jun 14, 2002

I'll join also, but only if you takeo out the

2) reduce government positions.
best to be without it. but a few will be needed
3) minimalization of rules
the less rules we have, the better they must be and the easier the game will run

parts...

2) All the current govermental poistions are mainly needed or helps, the only one's that are even possilbe(without making it to hard to run the game) is the govornors. But the lost of them could make it hard.

3)The rules are fine how they are.... If we minimize the rules everything will turn into complete choas and disorder.

Chieftess · Jun 14, 2002

Sign me up.

disorganizer · Jun 14, 2002

* with cutting down for example half of the rules, it will be ppbly fine. with 75% cut out propably perfect. all other things will be just a consensus of citizens who will take part in the chat.

* the government removal does not imply the position itself. i wanted to save that for a discussion thread (the how-tos). but an idea: the departments could still exist as citizen groups. they find opportunities in the saves, make plans and propose them to a poll. the leader position is useless and so is the deputy. you sign in to the department you like by participating in the coresponding threads.
the coc could be elected on each month, which will bring up a ranked list of maybe 10 players for the chat-runs.

more on this in a few days when discussions cooled down. in a separate thread. just to give you an idea.

Strider · Jun 14, 2002

I don't agree.... I'll have to refuse any support

Immortal · Jun 14, 2002

you already know I'm in dis

I'll post my opinion of the new government structure once all the stuff with the PI's cools off. (Not wanting to rattle any cages until I'm sure it won't cause a revolution)

BTW, the shadowy members of the RRP still believe in the same ideals you do. They just stay underground, and contemplate the downfall fo the government, I only know of two members....
I thought the acronym stood for Representative Revolutionary Party...

disorganizer · Jun 15, 2002

Im sorry you dont take part in it, Strider, but make sure you look at our discussions. Maybe we can break your sentiments to governmental suppression in our discussions soon ;-).

@Immortal:
I also hold back our discussions until the chat-incident is over. I hope the next one is not around the corner soon! I will then start discussion on the 3 topics.

trader/warrior · Jun 15, 2002

count me in!

:king:

disorganizer · Jun 16, 2002

first discussion up:
all power to citizencry (PPO discussion 1)
as DOM also started on this issue

disorganizer · Jun 16, 2002

second discussion up:
reduce governmental positions (PPO discussion 2)
as this relates closely to the first one

disorganizer · Jun 16, 2002

third discussion up:
minimalization of rules (PPO discussion 3)
as it also fits.
make sure to also discuss in DOMs thread on cutting the chats. i think the idea is evil.

Shaitan · Jun 17, 2002

I'm all for giving the citizens as much power as possible. I can't agree with either of the other goals though. What you are descibing is not a democracy but an anarchy.

These definitions are from the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition:

democracy - Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.

anarchy - Absence of any form of political authority.

disorganizer · Jun 17, 2002

democracy - Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives

as you said. exercised directly... government directly by the people is what we campaign ;-)

the absence of authority=anarchy would be that somone takes the game and just plays a few turns without any polls or any decision base. and without anyone controlling him.

Shaitan · Jun 17, 2002

The people directly governing a land without political authority is an anarchy. Anarchy doesn't work. Pure democracy doesn't work either. It is not efficient enough to support itself. Even Athenian democracy was, in effect, representative. The people of Athens were divided into classes. Those in the highest classes ruled (represented) those below them. The vast majority of Athenian citizens did not involve themselves in politics. They gave proxy to the professional arbiters and politicians to represent their interests.

disorganizer · Jun 17, 2002

dont mix real life with a game. here, we can do electronic voting, which is much faster than normal elections. this is the reason why in real life, these system did not work->voting too slow.
here, we have a valid poll thru in 2-3 days. + eleectrnic discussion of 2 days, which will be a lead time of 5-6 days. 1 day for organizing the things will give us a week per decission. in athenian democracy, they had to discuss and vote for months.

disorganizer · Jun 17, 2002

another thing:
your definition of anarchy conflicts with the definition in the dictionary ;-P
you say democracy driven directly by the people does not work. the oposite is shown in every club or other private organization, to which we are comparable with only 30-80 citizens.
if we would grow over 100000s of citizens, then you might be right, but in the small scale it should work (and worked in the civ2-demo).

Shaitan · Jun 17, 2002

I personally have absolutely zero desire to discuss and vote on every single aspect of the game. That level of tedium is what I want to escape from in my recreational activities. Whether it's feasible or not (and I do not for a minute believe that it is), it's not practical.

you say democracy driven directly by the people does not work. the oposite is shown in every club or other private organization, to which we are comparable with only 30-80 citizens.

Show me a club or private organization that does not have a president, treasurer or other officers that are in charge of aspects of the organization and have the authority to carry out their duties.

Power to the People Organization (PPO)

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In Retrospect

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In Retrospect

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