War with Greece!

Many nations are outraged at Greece's strike ferocious against the Iroquois. China, Azteca, Babylon, England, and Rome are currently at war with Greece. Iroquois just made peace with Greece but are bound by a MPP with England so they may return to war.

Other nations (albeit war-hungry) are accusing us of sitting idly by and watching Greece continue on and ignoring their attrocities. Meanwhile, peaceloving citizens around the world are calling for us to peacefully try to make efforts to stop the war. We are definitely the most powerful and influential nation and our stance on this conflict matters to every citizen in the world.

Currently, we have been condemning Greece's actions by supporting nations who step up against Greece and by setting strict embargos against Greece. What is the proper course of action? What is in the hearts of Phoenatican citizens?

Please cast your opinion and vote.

I think a 2/3 majority vote (66% or greater) on declaring war in this poll should be enough to declar war come next turn. Votes of "no" may be added together but the most popular can sway our future decisions. Thoughts on this?

Thank-you,
chiefpaco
Foreign Affairs Leader

My vote is yes. We should get them to declare war by completing the intelligence agency ASAP and then attempting to plant spies until they they declare war. Of course, this could result in the war being over before we can enter it, but that is also fine.

Our current military forces:

26 cavalry
40 infantry
21 pikemen
2 artillery
15 immortals (3 of which are in an army)

The National Railway System (NRS) is compete. Only our newest city NE of Chondote is not connected. Plexia is connceted though the link is through Roman territory.

We have a strong military compared to Greece although the Greeks have infantry.

I am curious as to what the objectives of a war with Greece would be.

Strangely enough, I think the objective of such a war would be the peace treaty. The greeks will undoubtable obtain a tech soon, and after taking one or two cities, we will be able to get it from them in a peace treaty. Also, I do not think the greeks will survive this war at all, but they may retain a few cities. If we do not enter the war, all of this land will be carved up by other civs. Should we declare war, we must do it on our own and avoid alliances so that we can make peace unilaterally. Plus, our military needs some practice; our soldiers are becoming soft, and our immortals are increasingly ending up in prison for violent crimes, as they have nowhere to direct their energy.

I agree with you Eyrei, but for now I vote NO - But Prepare, as I would like to see specific direction on how our forces would be employed and to what geographical objectives, if any.

This is the perfect time to attack Greece. With the other nations backing us the chances of us losing any cities is very low. I think a quick strike to the Greek cities of Ephesus, Thessalonica, Herakleia, and Oka would be very good for Phoenatica. However, I do believe that it would be wise to wait a few turns so that we may increase our offensive capabilities and allow for Greece to be weakened by war.

Is greece not near to us in culture. Such high culture civilizations are what will stop us from winning through culture. But, should we destroy them this competition is lost, and due to the 1/2 of culture rule we might win, and it would vastly increase our score.

As to operational matters: the military will ideally need 3 turns advance warning of a declaration of war against Greece. We would need this 3 turns to expend the necessary funds to bring the forces up to full operational capability, and to position our forces for a rapid strike. Tactically, garrineese's Kashmir theatre plan is probably the most viable.

I think a 3 turn wait will also be advantageous for the numerous reasons mentioned by earlier posters.

I am quite disturbed by this poll. Phoenatica has an honorable past and a time worn tradition of never declaring war on another nation.

I think we should definitely be prepared for this war, and our military needs upgrading anyway, but unless we are threatened, I am not yet convinced of the need to declare war. We have not been attacked or otherwise harmed, but I do think we must be ready in case we get dragged in.

There's another concern. Happiness. If we declare the war, our people will grow unhappy (the Universal Suffrage would help, but I don't know how much).

We have a strong military compared to Greece although the Greeks have infantry.

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Although we (combined with our allies) have far superior numbers to Greece, do NOT forget that this is the age of trench warfare. Anyone reading the post made in the main civfanatics page a few days ago (I recommend that every citizen read it) would realise that in order not to suffer massive (and I mean massive) casualties, lots and lots of arti would be required. Our force of 2 arti is to say the least ...insufficient for this kind of war.

On a similar note, we should also build up our arti force for the industrial & modern ages as these are tide-turners. They are formidable used with railroads and with a force of 30-50 arti.

Also, perhaps I have not read the posts fully since I returned, but I do not see the point of engaging in a war with Greece. Greece has MPPs with several civs and we could well be dragged into more than we bargained for. Other civs have come to the rescue militarily for Iro and I feel this is sufficient to right any wrong which was done to Iro by Greece.

Edit: if our objective is to teach Greece and only Greece a lesson, then why drag ourselves into a war with Greece's allies?

I feel we should maintain a negative stance (embargoes etc.) against Greece, but am strongly opposed to a war with Greece!

Edit: for the sake of the lives of our soldiers and citizens, I implore all citizens to vote NO for war!

The only MMPs now are Aztec-Babylon and Iroquois-England.

At this time, 70% of the citizens feel war is favoured at least in the near future. What is the official response from the Military Department?

Perhaps the citizens would feel more at ease with a plan.

Preperations are in the works for a potential future conflict.

Also I would favor war with Greece, because they seemed to be doomed at the moment, and we should attempt to get as much as we can from them before they're eliminated, also preventing others from becoming more powerful by denying them the lands we take.

The official tally stands with a majority opposed to war with Greece.

falc: they seemed to be doomed at the moment

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I disagree. They are in a tough position as we were in during the domino wars, but are in communism and still holding out. They may obtain enough peace to survive.

If their cities (especially the big ones) start falling, then we can be sure they are down.

Zur - they just lost their Capital.

I implore all citizen to vote no, in my personal games i have found your military may be significantly stronger but you shouldnt underestimate the power of opposing armies. I have often lost 10-20 units in wars where i have underestimated the nation im attacking. But if we do we should go for cities the are rich in resources

The war already started years ago. If you were here a week ago, you would have noticed that Greece lost dozens (50+) units fighting the Iroquois over the mountains. Lately, nations have been gaining Greecian land. The Greecian capital moved to Troy, which is miles away on an island, so their main cities are now corrupt, making any type of defense MUCH hard. Their rubber trade has even been halted.