Province Border discussion, Term 4

D

disorganizer

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This is a discussion-thread for all proposals for changes of provincial borders in term 4.
The discussion will be brought to citizen and cabinet-poll at the end of term 4 to be in effect on the beginning of term5.

You should always past a graphical version of your proposal along with a text-description.

Maps as starting-base of discussion:
phoenatica-1385AD-lowres.jpg

also as 400kb high-resolution version:
phoenatica-1385AD.jpg


This discussion is sponsored by the phoenatican geographical society!
 
now for my first proposal...

description of changes:
i expanded the borders to fit 12 cities into each province. then i matched the new borders with landmarks (was poorly done before) like mointain ranges or hill-lines. as a result, most of the provinces (except kashmir) got a change. most of them even major.
* istar now get some area to its north and east, therefore looses some in the south
* normandy is thrown together with ameri and then cut a litte in size. therefor renamed to "united normandy".
* asphinxia is enlarged to former greece-country (remember most of this area is still occupied)
* new cormyr becomes "greater cormyr", as is enlarges greatly to the south (rome) (remember most of this area is still occupied)
* the provinces #6 and #7 are redesigned fitting the others. #8-#10 will be future provinces still to be discussed, if ever needed.

we will then end up with 7 provinces istead of 10, which will lead to propably a better governor-occupancy. i believe the management of 12 cities can still be effectively done by one person.

graphical view:
Lowres-Version (100KB):
proposal-term4-%231-lowres.jpg


and a link to the high-res version (724KB):
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/proposal-term4-#1.jpg


discussion wanted!
other proposals also wanted!
 
I was just going to suggest moving Istar's NE border to the coast (including New Falcon's Haven, and Shailegona (sp). :)
 
No I dont want to lose my great cities of Pherris, Shailonegha, Port Gisnod and New falcons heaven , I want to keep them, instead of getting the ameri cities. And the term will soon end
 
well, we could discuss it. we can still get practice in optimal province design for the next game.

the new proposal shows, for example, if accepted, that provincial borders based on a tile-count are not the best idea. the proposal strictly uses geographical lines to draw the borders, not an artificial tilecount as the old one did.

and in fact, i did not realize the game ends so soon ;-)
 
Of course! Why do you think I put "Road to Victory" in my thread title? ;)

We could even finish at the end of this term if we crammed in a few more turn chats towards the end. :D
 
well, i just didnt realize it. so why was the whining about the long running of the games there? we could have had only 5 turns per chat without having a time-problem ;-P
 
I can see you're opposed to the 126 land tile Province, Dis. But I don't think your proposal listed above is transferable to the begining of a new game. This proposal would only work at endgame as a luxury 'cause it is not really needed.
 
New to the game, but it seems that having provinces in the first place is done in order to extend the number of opportunities for active citizen participation and to keep the build queues per governor manageable. After that, it seems that borders should be based on:

1. optimal number of cites per province (seems like there is some agreement that this lies between a minimum of 3 and a max of 12).
2. tiles worked by a city should not be split between provinces
3. geographical borders enhance realism and should be used whenever possible
4. number of total provinces should not exceed the number of active/willing governors (Ameri queues this turn as an example)

My sense is that each new term has required a redistricting to better distribute provinces? Seems to make sense.

That being said, the new map seems much better than the previous one, despite there being a need or not during the rest of this game.
 
1) no number was specified. this was random, as we set a number of in-game tiles/province as a reference. if we would have more mayors, work for governors should be easier ;-)

2) this is hard to do, but a clear rule sais: if a tile is not worked on in a province, its usage goes to the next city wanting to use it. making borders usage-based would need to make the borders between 2 chat-turns, as they will change till decided on.

3) right. this should be the only rule as its realistic. nobody ever made a border on other rules, like "hey, france! you have 200 tiles and i only have 10, so give me 90!"

4) also hard to do, as we know the number of governors only when nominations are there. also, some willing governors may be off-elected to an office (which left us short of governors this term). also it should be made clear that governors dont need to attend the chat, as they can post the build queues. maybe a rule should be that if a province is not occupied, its borders are changed and the land is given to the neigboring provinces, based on geographic landmarks (like normandy gets ameri-land).
 
I never understood the idea of pre-defining provinces where there are no owned until I tried to think of another way to do it while accomodating multiple turns/chat. It all begins to make sense now.

Ideally, I would like to see provinces grow organically within pre-defined geographical constraints beginning with 2 cities and ending with a max around 8-ish with special exceptions made for geographic necessity. Then there would be minor redistriciting at the start of each term. Don't know if this is doable and, of course, I missed most of the early discussions on province formation, balance and structure.

My biggest problem with the proposed term 5 map is the gerrymandering of Asphinxia to get in 12 cities.

Also just a thought on geographical boundaries: Mountains= good boundaries, rivers=bad boundaries. Rivers should, ideally, be the centers of provinces where practicable. I don't think you've done this, I'm just spouting off.

My continue $.02
 
Asphinxia has the will and the ability to govern all of phoenatica if it was needed, twelve cities is our due and well within our capabilities. Additionally, the large desert area to the south and the hills in between are perfect for the Asphinxian people who are used to dealing with both terrain types. This change would give us a very sensible eastern border of mountains and sea, and as Asphinxia is the commercial capital of the world, it is only fitting that we have connections with all other establised provinces.
 
Well you would become Governor of Province #6 and Corinth would be transferred to your new Province. IF the proposal were to be put into action.
 
so are there change-requests for the proposal? it was not put up as a notice, so please cut out the parts you would like to have change and place the pics here for discussion. maybe we can come to a concensus. i would really like to see normandy+ameri reunited for example.
 
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