What victory condition should we pursue?

The modern ages are fast approaching, along with wonders that could trigger an early victory for any nation. Which of these, if we should get the required wonders, should we go for?

Conquest - The world is large, and we only own about 25% of the land. Plus, we are a peaceful nation, and since ancient times, declaring war has been out of the question.

Domination - Again, we own 25% of the land. We would have to absorb quite a few nations, starting with the weakest. Once again, we're a peaceful people, so this looks to be out of the question.

Diplomatic - The Foreign Advisor is busy improving our relations with other nations. Should everyone be gracious towards us, victory would almost be ascertain.

Cultural - Our CAP (Cultural Assault Program) is running smoothly. Although, to win, we would need to deal with #2 and #3 in culture, which happens to be our friends, the Iroquois and Indians.

Space Ship - This is certainly possible, and we do have a few high production cities. Our scientific research would need to be guided in this direction.

Histographic - This is the longest, to 2050. We are currently in the lead by over 1,000 points! This would be achieved in succeeding terms, perhaps Term 6.

There have been several polls and discussion about this in the past, but this time it is imperative that all citizens take it very seriously, as lack of resolve on this issue could result in a catastrophic loss. We must decide on a route, and down it at full speed.

Personally, I suggest diplomatic victory, or at least an attempt at it. There are ways to ensure this victory type by signing certain alliances just before the election. However, this method is not particularly realistic, so may not fit this game. I suggest we try it the hard way, by simply improving our relations rather than getting the rest of the world to declare war on our competitor in the election.

I think Chieftess would make an excellent Secretary General.

I think that Diplomatic and Space Ship are the only realistic goals. As Chieftess pointed out, Conquest, Domination and Culture will all require a combative strategy and that goes against the grain of our history.

I would like to see us pursue a diplomatic victory with space as a secondary target.

I can see building the UN to control the elections, but diplomatic wins are very unpredictable. Plus I don't agree with the basic philosophy of the win.

Spaceship works for me. Histograph and an attempt at Culture are also an option for me.

Domination/ Conquest are out of the question, and I'm the Military Deputy! We should build on our peaceful past and our scientific present; either the space victory or the diplomatic works for me. Personaly I prefer the idea of the space race as it will prolong our nation (and so our score) and is the safer bet for us. However we should still build the UN just in case and to stop another civ from holding the elections.

We are a good cultural nation but, as pointed out already by Chieftess (congracts on the election) we have stiff competition on that one, and I just dont like it as a victory.

I can go for culture or space race. Apollo says that we dont need to destroy any other nation to get culture victory, we will get it 1886 AD if we dont build any more improvments. But I´am for space race victory

We should study Fission and build the UN first in the modern era to assure our victory. However, I vote against a diplo vote.

Instead, I call on all Phoenaticans to join a great cause. Who else on this earth deserves to populate the stars but our nation. We have set an example of non-aggressiveness, and generousity to our fellow man (and woman for that matter), that demands our leadership in this, the most noble endeavor.

Space Race victory is the only peaceful outcome worthy of the efforts put into our nation.

Let us switch to Democracy, focus our studies and production programs. With the Hoover wonder we can build parts faster than our rivals. With democracy and trading, we can build our nation so that all citizens are happy or specializing in some vital governmental function.

Our goals should be:

1) Every citizen happy or specialist (could be quite a challenge for us)
2) Space Race victory

Bill
...in PDX

I'm with Bill_in_PDX here, I vote for Space Race victory. Conquest, Domination, and Culture, while all achievable require more agreessive actions. And Histo is only a last resort IMHO. So that leaves Space and Diplo, concidering our history with most of these nations Diplo will be hard (but challenges can be good). However, in general I prefer Space Race Victories for several reasons. It's much Cooler to me to go to Alpha Centari than win a UN Election. And more practically, we're in the lead in tech and production and could meet this relatively soon and our happyness levels seem to be so well that the longer we go the gains in score will outway the earlier finish gain of Diplomacy.

I think we should build the UN, if only to have better control of the election process.

But I am with Bill_in_PDX on this one. Space is the only fitting victory condition for our nation!

I'm hanging with the *build the UN but go for the space ship victory* crowd. If we get a big enough tech lead we can take our time building the ship. I would also continue CAP and see how close we can get to the cultural victory.

I also like Bill_in_PDX's goal of makning all Phoenatic's happy or specialist. Happiness must be contagious. Since everyone in PDX is happy they think all of Phoenatica should be happy.

We will have a cultural win in 1886, as long as no one builds more improvements, and sooner if we do. This should be taken into account.

We can build cities inside our "gaps" (where there are no cities and developed tiles), and just start producing culture to maintain the lead.

The NSD requests that this issue be put into a poll as soon as possible. The science department needs to know what victory condition were taking in order to set the queue to it's best.

"Good things take time. But great things happen all at once."- Rat Race

I ask all citizens to vote in this poll, concerning our victory condition:

What should our victory condition be?

Here is something I just calculated:

It's 1525 AD, and our victory by culture is estimated at 1886. This gives us 113 turns until that date. With 113 turns being the "Magic Number" (turns until victory is assured), give or take a few turns, here's what we have:

2 turn chats per week = 20 turns (if all goes well)
9 total turn chats this term = 90 turns.

That gives the next term 23 turns (about a week if the "Just One More Turn" syndrome sinks in).

This also means we *may* have 113 turns to try and achieve any other culture victory.

With these figures in mine:

Conquest and Domination - Remember that Iroquois Stack of Doom? That's the type of resistance we'd be running into. We might be spending 30 turns each conquering each nation. (an average of 3 turns per unit). Maybe the Military Department can give more precise figures... I'm also estimating 138 cities as a quick count. That's 138*city_size defensive units to prevent possible culture flipping.

SpaceShip - 15 turns until the modern era, and using the average of 7 turns per tech, and 10 techs to get all of the parts, that's 70 turns. 95 total turns, 100 after the last part is completed, possibly in PDX. It cuts it somewhat close, but it's possible if we prepare now.

Culture - Most likely a win in 1886. Our "control" date.

Diplomatic - Nations range from Furious to Polite. Giving MPPs and ROPs to make them gracious is pretty risky. If the vote ends in a tie, one war can ruin the whole thing!

Histographic - We're already in the lead.

So, do nothing, and it's culture, or histographic. Do something, and it's most likely space ship.

The culture win will come closer as we build more culture buildings.

Culture of course! This is why I think we should start CFC before we begin researching space flight.

I've been away for a few days so I've missed much of this debate, but how can I not be swayed by Bill_in_PDX's glorious speech? SS all the way!

Thinking it could fall under FA domain, I was thinking about organizing and holding a "shall we allow UN votes" poll sometime before we build the UN. I suggest we not allow votes until the citizens allow one. Of course, on allowing UN votes, we would then have to work towards ensuring we win the vote.