Playing a 100% Fundamentalism Gov't in a GOTM....

SOME THOUGHTS ON FUNDAMENTALISM



GENERAL NOTES

Since many people have not played Fundy, or not played it in a long time, I'm going to write some info that might be of help. If I'd known about the upcoming Fundy-only gov't sooner, I'd have made a writeup to help those who jump right in after it's posted.


1. Never set the science slider above 50%.

2. All generated science (e.g., from city output & scientists) is cut in half. This is different that #1 (above)!

3. This means your max effective rate, disregarding Despotism/Monarchy corruption, is initally only 25/70, or 36% (maximum) of what you could get in early Des/Mon.

4. Science from caravans/freight is not capped or halved or affected in any way by the government of Fundy. You get 100% of your gold quantity in beakers, just like always.

5. You cannot build Fanatics until you discover the advance of Fundamentalism.

6. You can pretty much nuke & do dastardly deeds with spies, with no regard to international consequences (they blame your bad behavior on being Fundy). You do hurt your rep... but what Fundy High Priest gives a hoot about rep?

7. Fundy Gov't cannot ever grow thru celebration. They can only grow through 2 ways:

(1). Filling the food box (next turn, city will grow by 1 no matter what).
(2). Joining a Settler/Engineer (but only up to size 8).

8. There is no Corruption or Waste in Fundy, ever (contrary to some books and manuals).

9. Fundy Gov'ts can celebrate, but the "only" benefit they get is the additional trade arrow, like a democracy.

10. Advanced topic. Fundy gov't will have Red citizens on Line one of the happiness screen. This means to make citizens happy, it takes 2 Lux to make them dark blue (content), then 2 more Lux to get them light blue (happy). Ordinarily, it only take 2 Lux to make a black dude (angry, or double unhappy) to light blue (happy). This means it will take more Lux if you want a city to celebrate. But the Lux Cap (half city size) limits how many Lux can be applied... so you need to carefully watch your happiness screen if you want to try the path of Power Fundamentalism, in order not to "waste" luxuries that could go to Tax or (your already crippled) Science.

11. Be aggressive... demand tribute, redneck the AI... Democracy players may neglect this aspect somewhat.

12. Raise gold. That is what Fundy gov't do best! Expenses are going to be low, even if you don't have Michelangelo's Cathedral (and build the free-upkeep Cathedrals).




WONDERS

Most worthless Wonders in a 100% Fundy game:

1. Shakespeare's Theatre (Zero value).
2. Statue of Liberty (Zero value).
3. Womens Sufferage (Zero Value).
4. Eiffel Tower (Almost zero value).

Wonder of unusual value to Fundy Gov's:

1. Pyramids. Fundy grows either through joins or filled food boxes (not WLTP/WLTC days).
2. Great Library. Normally a hinderance at high difficulty, this might well be more valuable than a SSC in early Fundy.
3. Hoover Dam


The following wonders will tithe gold to Fundy gov'ts:

1. Michelangelos's Chapel (will give 2, 3, or 4, depending on the techs you possess).
2. JSBach will tithe 2 gold in each city.
3. Oracle will tithe 2 gold for each city that has a temple (until Theology is discovered by any civ).




My "Practical" Suggestions for Fundy Wonders:

1. Pyramids.
2. Marco Polo's Embassy.
3. Great Library.
4. Sun Tzu.
5. Leonardo's Workshop.
6. Magellan's Voyage
7. Darwin's Voyage.
8. Hoover Dam.
9. Apollo Program.
10. Colossus (if you play PF).
11. Hanging Gardens (if you play PF).
12. Cure For Cancer (if you play PF).

Good Wonders:
1. Michelangelo's Chaple (for gold)
2. JSBach (for gold)
3. Adam Smith (not as good as usual, due to few necessary 1-gold improvements... Marketplace and Harbor are about it: granary, temple, library, coastal fortress, courthouse should all be zero cost or unnecessary).
4. Lighthouse (if navy).
5. Great Wall (maybe, if you're weak).
6. KRC (if you put it in a big city).

Marginal Use Wonders:
1. Copernicus Observatory.
2. INC.
3. Oracle.
4. Manhattan Project (depends... if you're behind, nuke and get ahead ).

Worthless Wonders:

1. Shakespeare's Theatre (Zero value).
2. Statue of Liberty (Zero value).
3. Womens Sufferage (Zero Value).
4. Eiffel Tower (Almost zero value).
5. Colossus (if you don't play PF).
6. Hanging Gardens (if you don't play PF).
7. Cure For Cancer (if you don't play PF).
8. SETI (almost useless).
9. United Nations (unless you are behind at this point in the game).




CITY IMPROVEMENTS
The following city improvements have unique effects in Fundamentalism:

1. Temple: No upkeep, tithes 1, 2, or 4 (depends on Mysticism & Oracle).
2. Cathedral: No upkeep. Tithes 2, 3, or 4 (depends on Theology & Communism).
3. Colosseum; No upkeep. Tithes 3 or 4 (depends on Electronics).
4. Marketplaces, Banks, Stock Exchanges: Normal upkeep, but they all act on and multiply the Tithes!
5. Police Station. These are totally and 100% uselsess. Sell them if you capture them.
6. Courthouse: no effect on corruption or waste (which is zero already), but will still increase the cost of an enemy bribing your Fundy city.



Hope that helps. Feel free to contribute your thoughts for Fundy players, btw ...

After finishing 2/3 of the "Set Fundy" GOTM18, I have this to add for those still playing:

With proper trade, the SSC is a waste of shields in early/mid game. Make a SGC instead (Super Gold City). Libraries & Universities are pretty much worthless if you play PF. The Colossus is essential, but Copernicus and INC are totally unnecessary, since science is almost always set to zero beginning about 0 AD (at deity).

Similarly, science is breathtakingly fast in Fundy, if you have a good, big, SGC. This is because of the ease of building and maintaining a large shipping fleet to deliver the caravans that carry your empire. This should obsolete the Great Library in quick order, whether you own it or not. All AI civs are science midgets.


So I have the following corrections....

Pretty much worthless wonders:

Copernicus - Unnecessary
INC - Unnecessary
Great Library - Unnecessary (if you have MPE)


Best wonders in the game:

Marco Polo & Colossus. Runners up are Lighthouse and Magellans, followed by Leonardos & Pyramids. And KRC was of massive value, much more than Michelangelos, during the same lifespan. But MC is of massive value right now (4 gold times number of cities).

Now he tells me (I opted for Pyr. at the cost of Col.)

Am otherwise doing well in GOTM 18 -- plays like a King.

Now he tells me (I opted for Pyr. at the cost of Col.)

Click to expand...

Colossus is of minimal value, unless your are fully comitted to Power Fundy. If you're playing just regular warlike fundy, and constructing thing from scratch (in particular, if you are not IPRBing), and if you're using the Science slider at above 0% most of the time, then the Colossus should (IMHO) be passed over for the Pyramids. This is because:

1. Pryamids save 1 gold per turn.... very significant in dozens of early conqueror cities.

2. Pyramids save the Rush Buy gold in each new city for a Granary.

3. Pyramids save the city's construction time (e.g., no time "wasted" building granaries).

4. Pyramids mean double growth rate (and that's very very important in a Set Fundy game like GOTM018).



So you can't go wrong with Pyramids.


PS, Just use the Find Function, locate the Colossus city, and make a 400 shields worth of vet units to go take it. If you are a ways from Flight, it will be worth it if you are fully committed to desiring a big bank account down the road, not ot mention one tech per day. Then develop the trade terrain, celebrate it, and you're all set!!! The really nice thing is that you'll have no corruption, no matter where it is.

OK, for those still playing GOTM018 that want to overcome the loss of Colossus, without having to track it down and capture it, here is what to do to get big bucks:


1. Know how the trade bonus is computed. This is it:

B = (D + 10) * (Source + Destination) / 24
B = Base initial bonus (gold, and also the same amount in beakers).
D = Distance between the source and destination city (diagonals are 1.5)
Source = # of base trade arrows in home city of caravan/freight (total arrows minus the 3 trade route's arrows; Corrupt base arrows do not count).
Destination = # of base trade arrows in the destination city (ditto).


Another way of expressing this is :

D = (24*B)/(Source + Destination) - 10


2. As you might see, the Colossus adds to the Source (or destination) base arrows. You can't really change the AI's arrows (you can use a unit to squat on their terrain if you really want to, however, and force the AI to move its workers). BUT you can indeed select a destination at a greater distance.

Example:

Assume you have a size 9 colossus city, which generates 30 base arrows. The destination is an AI city with 10 arrows. It is 10 tiles away.

(10+10)*(30+10)/24=33.3=33. This is the "base inital bonus", to which multipliers are used (not necessary to list them here... see the War Academy or follow the links in my Sig Block).

Now assumy you have no Colossus. How to make up for that loss? Let's see:

D = (24*B)/(Source + Destination) - 10
= (24*33.3)/(20+10) - 10
= 16.6
= 17


So, if you simply deliver the caravan to a city that is 7 more tiles away, you'll make up the loss of bonus due to no Colossus. You need to take each case individually... e.g., the answer is NOT always 7... .


NOTE: You cannot make up the recurring trade route value, since distance plays no part in it.



How to deliver to a further destination? Simple, more ships. In Fundy, that should not be a problem, esp. if you have Lighthouse (assuming Triremes). Just pump out several dozen ships. I use over 30. With no Colossus, you may want more like 40.



Anyway, hope that helps quantify the loss of Colossus on trade bonus.

Yeah, I found it -- it is in the interior of the Greek empire, away from the sea entirely with three roads, at size five. I'm seriously disappointed.

bump for GOTM 24

From the sounds of it people in GotM 24 are doing quite well as straight FUN. This makes me wonder weather in future GotM's people will use the tactic of building the Statue of Liberty and switching to FUN, especially in a diety level game (or other high
difficulty levels)

Any thoughts out there on weather you will switch to FUN in future GotM's

I used to always go straight for the SoL when playing just so I could switch to Fundy. I always liked the fact that there was no discontent in the populous, cash always flowed and the war machine would just roll over the top of opposition forces.

But since I have started coming to CivFanatics and started playing the GOTMs, I have learned about the strengths of a Democratic government. Greater science means an earlier spaceship finish and extra cash flow with larger cities through WLT*D.

I have to admit though, that I like playing these Fundy games in GOTM. It might be because you get Fundy right from the start and don't have to worry about early unhappiness.