The Iroqouis War, Citizen discussion and Advice Thread

Iroqouis have declared war and launched a surprise attack, but so far they have gained nothing except eliminate all of PDX's Cultural improvements when taking it, before we retook it.

I'm asking for the advice of the Pheonetica people as I have before to make sure we come up with the best plans possible.

Information can be found in the Military Dept. thread starting with page 2

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26287&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=2

Well, now the Province of Asphinxia is feeling a little insecure....
We desperately need reinforcements to hold our cities. To loose Thebes, site of the Forbidden Palace, would be a disaster. If we take the highground around Kashmir then there are only two passes they can easily move through. I would suggest that we need to draw India, and possibly even China, into the war on our side. We must make the Iros fight on more than one front. Plus, the Chinese could distract them from Asphinxia, which seems to be their short term goal.

Don't worry, those stacks are a priority concern.

Basic Goals everyone SHOULD be able to agree on.

1.) We must ensure we don't lose another city to the Iroqouis

2.) We must make sure that this war doesn't spread into another domino war

3.) If a domino war seems evident we must ensure that we have allies in such a war so it's not Pheonetica vs. the World again.

Immediate Goals

1.) Eliminate Stacks in Asphinxia

2.) Reinforce the entire Front (Asphinxia and Kashmir), specifically Memphis, Abydos, and CSIM.

3.) Build Bombers Bombardment runs (no fighters needed, yet).

4.) get more Infantry to ensure better protection

5.) Build more tanks for potential offensive.

6.) Build up Navy to support offensive and defensive efforts from the sea (mostly offensive). This would include Transports for a potential invasion.

I think we should mobilise the economy if:
A) We don't anihilate the first wave and they start doing damage
and
B) There appears to be more waves of Iros coming for us

If however we beat them back with such force that Asphinxia and Kashmir are no longer under threat we should only Mobilise if we want to wage an all out offensive war and take a large number of cities.
Two things to consider, we are not currently building any wonders, so we won't loose any production anywhere and the captured cities would be near Thebes, which has the Forbidden Palace, so they would be productive cities!!!

if we could bring some of the iro-neigbors on our side this would help. also, we could try to get the babs on our side, which will prevent a 2 front war against us.

to the goals we should approach:
1) regain all cities we lost
2) take all cities lying in our proclaimed province borders (kashmir for example)
3) take salamanca

First, we are building a wonder, the Manhatten Project, in Preperation for SETI.

Disorganizer, we only lost PDX, and regained it the turn after the declaration of war (same turn as the save).

I agree with your other two goals as well.

Why was PDX completely undefended?

It is our most productive city, and undoubtedly too big of a target for the AI to pass up.

Honestly, I don't know. I imagine CT was doing it as a temporary thing figuring 1 turn with PDX THAT far in our borders it was in no threat.

Right, since I was going to start moving some of the infantry in our southern region (the extra ones in the former Greek cities) into our cities like PDX that turn.

Falc, I had too much time off from the boards, I'd like to share some thoughts about our war strategy in the East. These are merely suggestions from the Domestic Dept.

Military – It appears the Iroquois only have one railway entry into Phoenatica, through the St. Regis area. With only 7 of their units (6 cav. And 1 mounted warrior) having multiple movement points, they will be using that railway. So to begin with, we should probably have a wall of Infantry, at least 4-5, across the tracks on the St. Regis border. We especially need to cover the rail on the hill east of Oka. And we need 1 Infantry on the tile south of St. Regis to stack some Tanks on.

Of our 22 Tanks, 15 should be sent north to block the advance of and attack the stacks between Memphis and Abydos. We can’t let them get to the rails (especially the cav.) or fortify the area. The other 7 can go the southern route and take St. Regis. The Northern operation should take 2 to 3 turns. If we take St. Regis fairly easily, the southern operation could be 3 turns also. In both the north and the south the Infantry should advance and fortify as the Tanks advance. We should have workers build a single rail in the north, towards Oil Springs.

In 2 turns (I believe) we will have 5 more Tanks. These can be used as fill in as needed. From these battlefields, the unit should head for the Oil Springs / Grand River area to set up the new front. We can then eliminate Hieracornpolis and Gandaseetaigon, and focus on Hangchow and Chengdu. That done, we can concentrate on moving towards Tonawanda and Salamanca.

We should stay away from Mobilization, as we need to rebuild PDX and pre-build and finish SETI. I will be dropping back the science rate to increase our income. This may change again if we need to release more luxuries into the mainstream. Rather than Mobilizing, cities can be switched to Tanks and Infantry independently. Transports from Kashmir are also an option. With the increased income, some rushing of units may be available.

Just some thoughts from the Domestic Dept.

An important thing is to discover the location of their riflemen. My guess is that the bulk of this force are fortified in Iroquios border cities. Even if they are no match for the tanks, any assult on a city with lots of riflemen will take time.

Well, I will attempt to avoic casting about blame in a hindsight environment, but I hope we all will agree that going forward, with rails and a MPP, it is far more important to keep the core cities, especially the number one production city, protected at all times.

Better to let the Iroq's back stab us on a border city than having a core city with three wonders sacked. We are actually kind of fortunate they didn't raze the city.

I hope that our government will not make the mistake of mobilization economy, that or a government change at this point would be the only way we allow ourselves to lose. Punish the Iroq's for the deaths in PDX, but lets keep our eyes on the goal.

Bill
...still alive in PDX, but many of my fellow citizens are not.

My thinking on the military actions that should be taken is to limit the campaign to stopping the current invasion and retaliate by takeing no more than 4-5 of thier cities. This will 1) not put order in jepardy from discontent citezens, 2) Show these actions will not be tolerated and well meet swift reply, and 3) allow us to keep our eye on the prize, so to speak, and allow us to build improvement needed for victory instead of military units.

As far as battle plans, getting rid of that stack near Memphis should be farily easy. If we bring up our 18 Artillery guns to Memphis, we should be able to weaken the western stack enough to use Infantry from the rear to eliminate most of them. The remaining that retreat will be too weak to be a threat for the time being. To wipe out the eastern stack, we could bring up our tanks, they should be more than enough to eliminate them. We also need to bring up the remaining Infantry from the rear to defend Abydos and CSIM, which are in range of Cavalry assults.

The next turn we can move our guns to the spot where the eastern stack was and shell Hieraconpolis to be followed by tank attack that should take it. There should be some tanks left over that were need for the assault on Hieraconpolis, these could be brought around to attack St. Regis. With these two cities, we have two fronts to sandwich them in, and take some cities quickly. No matter what, I do not believe we should commit all of our tanks to the attack, we must keep some in reserve just incase of an emergency. If these plans aren't clear enough, or you'd just want a visual plan, let me know and I'll post a map with the plan on it.

This is just what I would do if I were in Falcon's shoes, hope it helps. One thing you must keep in mind, it appears the Iro's have no Rubber, so thier best defensive unit is the Rifleman. With our Tanks, Infantry, Artillery, and our soon-to-have Bombers, we can end this war VERY quickly.

One more thing, we can also bring our destroyer near Shanghi to destroy the roads on the souce of saltpeter near Tonawanda. With that destroyed and Hieroconpolis taken, they'll have no saltpeter to build more cavalry with.

How could that happen with PDX?!!
Now I have to build up the city again and dont change it to tanks military!

My idea:
1)Attack the stacks with artilllery
2)Pick the wounded riflemen off with old units
3)Draft 1 citisen everywhere when mech infantry is available
4)Put 3 infantry in each border city
5)destroy the stacks
6)build fortresses on hills and mountains and on stragetic points
7)Put 2 infantry in those fortresses
8)When we destroyed the stacks take 1 or 2 iroqiuos cities
9)sue for peace

There is a citizen mood poll on mobilization. I see there is a voice against it, but I'd like to get an overall picture.

I do not think mobilization or drafting are needed to meet this threat. Yes, we should eliminate the Iroquois with-in our borders first and then go on the offensive. There seem to be a few good plans posted already.

As, for PDX, it is unfortunate but I must say that this could have happened while I was president as well. I left Normandy and Istar virtually undefended while I fought the Greeks and also left cities undefended while moving units around to upgrade them. I am sure that PDX will be guarded from this point on and it will be able to rebuild while the rest of Phoenatica goes into war production.

I'm not sure that lowering the science rate right now is a good idea. Aren't we on the verge of learning computers ? We should strive for that tech with haste and make plans for up-grading some infantry. How many will we upgrade, where will we do so, etc. Upgrading in the midst of a war can be tricky but infantry to mechanized infantry is a very valuable upgrade.

Finally we must be aware of the usefuleness of the enemy's cavalry to him. These horse units are no where near as powerful as our tanks but their range is greater. therefore we must be on the look out for hit and run tactics by the dastardly Iroquois.

I can't offer more than that now becuase I didn't download the save before the forum went down the other day. I'm at work now and can't look at the game until this evening.

I agree that if we do decrease the Sci. rate we should wait until AFTER computers. For Two reasons.

1.) So we can get to Mech. Infantry as soon as possible.

2.) IF we go to Mobilization it would have to wait until after we switch production to SETI, so we don't lose the ability to switch to it, and preferably after PDX finishes Cultural improvements.