RBE DSG1 - The Uncanny X-Men

The Deity Succession Games, venturing into Realms Beyond Emperor, bring you the first of the new series. We have four players ready to go, and I want to launch with a "fairly easy" game situation: a low pressure builder's game.

Difficulty: Deity (of course)
Civilization: Persia
World Size: Large
Opponents: Seven
Terrain: Pangaea 60% water
Climate: Cold, Arid, Rugged
Barbarians: None
Rules: Cultural Start Disabled
Victory: Domination is the only condition enabled


ROSTER:

Sirian
Sulla
Jaffa Tamarin
Sirp


Why Persia? Industrious helps muchly in any builder scenerio. Religious might be easy, but Persia will be scientific, and the new patch seems to have dramatically increased the importance of being able to do some of your own research. I wanted a low cost cultural building to spread out quickly with, and I did NOT want to play Egypt, so Persia it is. X-Man shall rule the day!

We'll try for 24/48 rule and see if we can maintain that. I'll play a sizable chunk to get us started, then we'll go from there.

Also, I want to get the "big map" game out of the way, and play a smaller map for RBE2 in a couple of weeks, and try to include Arathorn and/or Zed at that time. In the mean time, all the guys ready to rock this first DSG won't shy from a slightly larger game. At ten turns per round and all vet players, we should be able to keep things moving along.


Why Domination? To make this a true builder game, with midgame and late game warfare as necessary (and possible) to spread out. Cultural, Space, Diplomatic would all threaten to end the game more quickly. No "win by decision" here, knockout only!


Oh and one more thing. I'm taking the first start it gives me, come what may! (If we end up in the far north or south, uh... we'll take our icy lands and make some sno-cones. ).

:scout:


- Sirian

ONLY domination enabled and a large map? Well, we can probably expect a new high score on a lot of people's personal HOFs! I have actually never played as Persia either (considered them "too strong" to use when learning the game) so I will be one step closer to my goal of playing a complete game with every civ. A builder's game may be a bit trickey, but if we don't have to worry about the spaceship then the game shouldn't be too tough (I expect that we will want to stay as close to tech parity as is possible though!) With only 7 opponents we are going to be seeing some massive opposing empires; should be fun stuff. And with the slower tech rate under 1.29f (my experience in Epic8 would suggest a LOT slower) we may actually get to make some use of out immortals. Bring it on!

(Note: I will be gone most of Thursday and Friday, so it might be helpful to get a turn in before then, or, barring that, to simply shuffle the turn order around.)

We drew an equatorial start, flood plains with one food bonus.

4000BC: Don't see any reason to move. Persepolis founded, worker to irrigate wheat flood plain. We have two bg tiles in immediate range, one more in second range. Five mountains in range, five flood plain, grass and desert makes the rest. Should be a strong location, if odd.

The plan is never to see size 1 again after 3800BC. Keep the capital at size 3 MINIMUM at all times, and keep that food coming in. Food, not shields (even with this much food) is the limiter on settler building, at least until we sneak a granary in there.

The tech penalty is handled differently in the new patch (for those who haven't heard yet). Instead of the AI's getting a discount or penalty per difficulty while the player has a flat tech rate, now it's the AI's who have a flat tech rate, while the player gets his tech rate adjusted per difficulty. What this means: Chieftain and Warlord tech will move faster than before, Regent stays the same, and higher levels more slowly, especially Deity.

The AI's used to get a 3/5ths cost for techs on Deity. Now they get 1/1 while the player gets 5/3rds or 1.67x normal costs.

1.67x !!!

That translated out to Pottery, with FOUR research per turn, taking 27 turns on a large map to research at first civ cost. Uh... good grief! All other techs besides CB would take 40 turns even with max science rate. Well one thing is for sure, the Min Science Gambit is back in style, baby, yeah!

Iron Working, 10% science, here we go.

We need explorers, warriors, so I train three of them in a row, then a spearman for defense. By the time we get to the spearman, it's 3200BC and the capital is almost size 5, running 50% lux! The spearman is our fifth unit, incurring per-turn unit costs as with one city we can only support 4/turn. Time to build a settler. You can see in the screenie above, I sent the first warrior northwest, the second east, the third southwest. Spotted spices just to the east, an incense just to the southwest.

At 3000BC, I learn who our opponents will be, and surprise of surprises, we are NOT listed last on the list!



One settler produced and I start another. I move that first settler west a few tiles, in between two more flood plains wheat, and Pasargadae is founded.

3000-2550BC: Our east scout turns south, following a mountain range, and meets our closest neighbor, India. To our good fortune, Ghandi is for the moment expanding AWAY from us, south and southeast of his capital. Our northwest scout follows a hills range north, then turns eastward. He spots ivory in the distance and meets a French warrior. A few turns later, he continues east and runs into Babylonian borders, where they contact us. ALL tech deals at 2nd-civ are almost full price, and way too costly, so I wait for these yahoos to come up with the same techs. France has Warrior Code and Alphabet, while Babs have Ceremonial Burial and India has that plus Pottery. Meanwhile, I train another warrior and keep him in Persepolis, and lower the lux down to 30%, where I'm able to keep it steady for some time. (Even got down to 20% at times). Our third city is founded right ON the spices in the jungle, and our lone worker soon brings these online through the capital.

Once India learned Alphabet, and India learned or traded for Warrior Code, with NONE of these three yet in contact with one another (amazing, with the French and Babs so close, I guess the lack of barb camps to be chasing down gives them lower odds of finding one another as quickly? Hmm...) so I was able to make this deal with Ghandi, as both the other civs already had Masonry anyway, but not being in contact, I sold it to India at 2nd price, for two techs @3rd plus all his cash! Haha!



2550-2150BC: I continued heavy scouting, even sending out that fourth warrior at one point. (What the heck). Good thing, too, as that fourth one, exploring northeast, found a HUGE cache of silks about two city distances to our north. We've simply got to corner the silks market. Yet we're also training a LOT of nonvet units here, so I decided to take the time out now to build a barracks in the capital. Six turns at 7shd/turn, plus food recovery from two settlers pushing the population down to size 3.



I took the chance to trade Alphabet to the Babs. I should have done that sooner, perhaps, but at least I didn't miss the boat. We finally have the ability to build temples.

At forty turns in, we have contact with three civs, have good relations with two of them (Babs are Annoyed, others Polite), and have explored a good bit of the continent. We've found the lux sources in our vicinity and I have one online. Pasargadae has been training workers, while Susa trained a warrior and has almost finished a worker.

Iron Working is discovered. I offered this trade to the Babs, trading IW@2nd for Myst@2nd, Pottery@3rd, and some of his cash.



Then I took Mysticism and traded it @2nd to France (haha, they still have contact ONLY with us!) for Wheel@2nd plus all her cash.



I tell ya, folks, Joanie is my favorite neighbor!



Then I looked around for our iron sources. With all these hills and mountains, I figure we have a source nearby. Well... turns out we kinda do, and we kinda don't. There's a source east of Susa, BUT... there's an Iroquois border peeking out of the fog just a few tiles away from it!

To make matters worse, with our newly gained Wheel tech, I look around for all our horses, and again we have only ONE source and it's IN THE SAME LOCATION! The only iron and the only horse, east of Susa, just off the borders of Iroquois! Gah!

I had planned to stop at forty turns, but now I feel like I really ought to try to manage one more round here. I get the sense that critical things will happen in the next few turns, and so I exercise host prerogative and play on a little bit longer.

...

2150BC: I start Polytheism at min rate. Our settler and our only spearmen head east toward the iron/horses location. Persepolis proceeds to train a new spearman, a vet this time.

Oh, and get this: Sid informs me that (for the moment at least) we are Technologically Advanced!! Yay!!



Our scouts have found the Indian capital. Joanie has already grabbed those ivory up north, showing some skirt for the first time (Pink borders showing on our world map). We have a scout that has passed through Bab lands and is heading east, in the far north. We have a scout heading north along the shore (which is to our west, a big shore, meaning our position is not too badly exposed, French to far north, Babs to northeast, Iros to the direct east, India to southeast, and ocean all along the west). Our fourth scout is busting fog right to the north of our capital, and he's the one who found the mojo silks deposits. I have in mind to let him fogbust all over that region, then meet up with our fifth settler AT the silks to give us two military units up there, try to discourage the Babs from going postal on us. The Susa unit does a little fog busting in the jungle right at Susa then will be returning. Our fifth scout tries to do some fogbusting south of the capital (NOTE: all of these "scouts" are regular warrior units) but then I end up getting distracted, sending him east to try to make contact with the Iro's.

Pasargadae trains three workers in a row, then starts its temple. One worker connected to the capital (and the lux) then did not return, while the other two are (heh, get this) mining the mountains to try to get more shields online. Susa mines its second grassland (it only has two for now, but lots of vegetation around) and then its worker starts a road across the mountains toward the mine. I have one more worker building a road north THROUGH the jungles to get those silks connected and improve travel times across the desert, for future settlers or units sent up that way. (This, with all our cities currently caught up on good tiles).

1950BC: Our settler does make it to the iron/horse location, and Arbela is founded. 1950BC, 45 turns in, and we're just now getting our fourth city? Well, it's not as bad as it sounds. I did a LOT of unit/scout training, and getting contacts early has paid off well in the trade and diplomacy departments. Arbela starts a worker, then it will build a temple.

1910BC: OUR BIG BREAK! France, still isolated, having contact only with us even though there's a Bab city just a stone's throw from their border, Joanie discovers Writing! I offer her this trade and Persia becomes the second civ on the planet to obtain Writing tech.



Yes oh yes! Joanie!!!

Yo, Ghandi. Hook an X-Man up, if you'd be so kind. Ah yes, cool. Peace. Out.



Hmm-hm-hmmm, hum de doo. We are happy in Persia. So happy, we blow our entire treasury on establishing embassies with every civ on the planet.

"Why yes, hello there, glad to meet you, we're the Friendly Persians (TM) and my name is Professor Xavier. My lads here may LOOK a little strange, but honestly, we're just a bunch of do-gooders eager to help you out with all your problems. Look! Free tech and contacts for all! (Well, once you are all drained dry of all that nasty cash you're holding on to)."

No sense letting the AI's trade back and forth. When I can't sell them anything else, I give the rest away (except for Writing). We're now GRACIOUS with Aztecs and France, and on the high side of Polite with everyone else. That won't save our skins forever, but it ought to improve our survival odds for the forseeable future, as long as we keep going on military and don't leave empty cities lying around, or underguarded resource centers.

And yes, Joanie will likely come to our aid if we do get into trouble... for a small fee, of course, but at least we can buy a friend if we have to! Babs are most likely of our four neighbors to be treacherous, and having a friend that's closer to him than we are sounds like a good idea to me!



And yes, I do abandon our six turns of progress toward Polytheism to begin immediate research at min rate into the wonders of Literature! (All the better to inform the world of our greatness and generosity and otherwise to propagandize them about our fluffy good nature and the sweetness of our cream filling).

It's soon going to be time for some our scouts, who are running out of fog to bust, to return home to add to security and MP duty. Others can continue to bust the fog, as that gives us more map info to trade and less we need to buy, down the road.

I send our fifth settler north with our second spear, and once again I have Persepolis unguarded for a brief span as a new spear unit is trained. I wanted that silk town to be guarded from day 1, though, just like the iron/horse town.

And, well, that's about it. Someone discovered Horseback Riding and traded it around, but only half the civs have it, and none of those are ones still missing out on Writing, so... since we have contact with all civs (and all with one another) we might as well hold off on any noncritical techs until they fully deflate, unless there is a multi-trade opportunity the likes of which I pulled off in RBCiv Epic Four.

We may use cash to trade for tech, but definitely buy territory maps once the chance comes around (and broker maps to whatever degree you can, although don't sell our world map unless they have something fair to pay).

1750BC: At the end of the first fifty turns, we have four cities, a fifth settler two tiles away from the big silk deposit, roads underway to connect these vital areas to our capital, a decent size military for this stage, and a few workers already active. (But keep training more! And more! One per city? Phooey! More than that would be better! We have a lot of jungle to clear, eventually, and the more roads we build now, the faster our settlers get around. No barbs to worry about, so have at it!)

Here's our forces and the world map at this point:



I'm going to post a dotmap with suggestions, along with the zip file and roster reminder.


- Sirian

It's been a long time since I drew a dot map for an SG. OK, here it is.



PURPLE DOT: Top Priority! I chose this location to secure as many silk as possible. The one not in range of this tile is between this city and the capital, so barring AI aggression, we'll have all the silks in hand. The settler is almost in position to grab this site.

WHITE DOTS: High priority! Fresh water or high food locations.

YELLOW DOT: Medium Priority, a good site on fresh water with lots of potential, but probably safe enough to wait a while.

ORANGE DOTS: Medium Priority: the one to the south may be in some jeorpardy. The ones in the jungle are not to be delayed and postponed extensively, as many players did in Epic Three. With industrious, it doesn't take long for a few workers to clear a couple of jungle tiles and these sites start to build toward the powerhouse cities they will be some day. Too much postponing will undermine them, as we're not going to have Pyramids and other goodies to speed them along later. They will have to fend for themselves from the ground up, to a large extent.

RED DOTS: Low Priority or Low Odds. These would be nice to get some day, if we can, in some cases. In others, they are low risk, low yield sites that can afford to wait.



Roster:

Sirian
Sulla <<<<<<< UP NOW
Jaffa Tamarin < On Deck
Sirp


RBE1 Persia 1750BC

One more note: our culture is off to a slow start. We have none, as yet. When to build granary and/or temple in the captital, as compared to more settlers, is a judgement call. We should NOT let the capital grow to size 7 without a granary in place, though. And also remember, any surplus food stored up at size 7 is WIPED OUT if the city shrinks back to size 6 or lower, so they not only killed off the "Size 6 Exploit" but bent over backward to penalize you at that point instead. Good luck, Sulla!


- Sirian

OK, looked over the game start and it would seem that this was a very strong opening (50 turns though? ) The fact that we are essentially caught up on tech, have contact (and good relations!) with all, and nearly as many cities as the AI speaks of some excellent diplomacy to start the game.

Looking at the map, I plan to prioritize expansion as much as possible. With Persepolis using 2 floodplains wheat, it shouldn't need a granary until it goes over size 6, though maybe I will sneak one in between settlers. For now, culture and military will have to take a back seat to securing as many of those dots as we can before the AI civs get them. I'd rather be backwards in culture than not grab enough land in the opening phase, after all. Well, I'll play it by ear and see what happens.

(0) 1750BC All seems in order; when I try to micromanage anything I realize that each city is already configured to maximum benefit! I check with all the AI civs to say "hi" and see which ones are missing Writing (quite a few of them). They also all have around 8 cities to our 4. But I didn't found my SECOND city in Epic4 until 1950BC and I still managed to win that one, so we are actually in very good shape here. ON Deity, if you can expand at 2/3 the rate of the AI civs, you are doing unbelievably well. One thing I don't understand: Sirian has gone to a lot of effort to secure the silks in the north (and a good move too) but makes no comment on the incense to the southwest. It's currently grabbed only by a red dot (low priority) city and only then after a cultural border expansion(?) Did Sirian just not see it or am I missing something here? I am going to redo the dotmap a bit in the south to get another luxury online much faster.

(1) 1725BC I am not sure exactly what the worker down in the south is doing; it looks like it is building a road to nowhere (?) I read through Sirian's writeup again and I just do not see what that worker is doing, so I move him west to help hook up our incense luxury. If there was some big plan for this guy, you'll have to tell me what it is. When making the diplo rounds, I see that Japan has Horseback Riding and lacks Writing. Bingo! We make the deal plus get all of Japan's cash (unfortunately only 1g). We are now 100% caught up on tech on Deity in the ancient age. And that's with NO goody hut freebies either. I don't know if we can stay there, but it's a nice feeling at the moment!

(3) 1675BC Silktown founded in the spot recommended. Temple ordered up immediately to pull in the other silks; I think it's important enough to work the forest tile and cut the build time to 30 turns at the price of slower growth. Well, the next person can change it if they see fit. France has a new tech (Philosophy) this turn, but no one else has it. Joanie won't even consider the trade with our current income, even under gracious relations. Better wait for it to get brokered around a bit.

(4) 1650BC Persepolis builds settler, who I send with spear escort down towards the incense location. Since both Persepolis and Pasargadae desperately need some military police, I opt to build 2 warriors out of Persepolis next (at 5 shields/turn 2 turns each) for MP duty. They are NOT useless units, as they will both be veterans and can upgrade to immortals later. I have to up the luxury rate to 40% to keep Pasargadae out of disorder; fortunately the temple there will complete soon. Also amusing to me: there is a horse resource about 1 and 1/2 city radiuses south of Pasargadae that we are almost assured of getting. Found it when fog-busting this turn. So we will be OK on horses, in any case - and will hopefully even be able to trade them away eventually for other goodies. On the diplo front, France still is the only one with Philosophy, and Babylon is the only civ lacking Writing. Is it worth it to sell it to him @ last-civ prices for 16g? I think so, so make the transaction. We are the richest civ out there at 220g.

(5) 1625BC Arbela (iron town) completes a worker; I set it to temple, though I suppose that could be changed if desired. Nothing on the diplo front, except a message that says the war between the Aztecs and Iroquois has ended (they were fighting?)

(6) 1600BC Persepolis completes first warrior which heads to Pasargadae so that I can lower the luxury rate. A bunch of civs start the Pyramids; as if it matters to us. Philosophy still has not been brokered; how far we have come since the days of 1.17f! Only 2 turns until we have incense on line, which will really help us with our lux rate. Pasargadae is getting ready to grow AGAIN!

(7) 1575BC Warrior fortified in Pasargadae, luxury rate dialed down to 30%. Antioch founded NOT in line with the dot map, but it has only 1 tile overlap, wastes no tiles, and pulls us the incense much earlier. Definitely worth it in my opinion. Antioch is another all food/no shields monster, so I set it to building a worker for now. Interesting situation diplomatically: France is the only one with Philosophy and Babylon is now the only one with Mathematics. I would LOVE to pull a deal here but... getting Philosophy will take all out money plus 11g/turn and none of the other civs have any money that we could get from brokering these two techs. And I'm not going to penalize the next two players for 20 turns with that kind of massive gpt payment. So I think it is still a better move to wait until I can get both at 3rd or 4th civ prices and then make a deal to get both. If this was a bad move just tell me (but I don't think it was; the prices @ 2nd civ are just too expensive).

(8) 1550BC With the incense hooked up, we can go all the way to 10% luxuries! (Though next turn Pasargadae will expand and force me to raise it again). Persepolis starts another settler, due in 4 turns. It can run a really nice spearman/settler cycle that takes 8 turns total (4 each) if managed properly (5 shield/turn for the spear, 8 shields/turn for the settler). Everyone continues to sit on their techs, and remarkably little trading is going on between the AI civs. Good for us while it lasts.

(9) 1525BC Only 4 more turns until Pasargadae completes its temple; must... have... more... shields! Nothing much happened with our cities this turn. India has placed a city due south of Arbela (irontown) that grabs two wheat tiles. They're starting to expand in our direction... Well, we will just grab as much land as we can and hope for the best.

(10) 1500BC Japan completes the Colossus in one city; pretty late for the first wonder on Deity. I guess the tech slowdown affects that too. We had nothing complete this turn in our cities, though Persepolis is about to finish a settler in 2 turns and Pasargadae is almost done its temple (3 turns). May I suggest a settler out of Pasargadae? Whoa! Diplo check reveals that the other civs have gone from only France having Philosophy and Babylon having Mathematics to many civs having both, and MapMaking too! This means its deal-making time. I may not be quite as good as Sirian, but I know an opportunity when I see one. MapMaking from India (who has lowest price by far, for some unknown reason) for our World Map and 109g. World Map to Aztecs for Philosophy, their Territory Map, and 1g (all they had). MapMaking to broke Japan for their World Map; this reveals the territory of Japan, Rome, India, Bablyon, and France. MapMaking to Hiawatha for his World Map, which reveals all of the Iroquois' land and a lot of space around it. World Map to Babylon for their World Map, which reveals the area around them and France. I then get Gandhi's World Map and 60g (almost what we paid in the first place!) for his World Map. Now I can go to France with an full World Map and trade it to them for Mathematics. In fact, Joanie even gives US 4g in the deal! Now that's the way to do trading. We are back to tech parity with 283g in the bank and have the full world map revealed. There's some crazy terrain too; massive tundra north of Babylon and the largest mountain range I've ever seen north of Japan. I feel like I'm passing the game off in good hands - have fun with it!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/RBE1_1500BC.zip

And here is the current map. I apologize for breaking up the dot map, but getting the incense connected allowed me to drop the luxury rate by 20%, so I think it was more than justified. And I get the feeling that Sirian just missed it somehow, since he's clearly aware of the importance of luxuries. Well, here's our situation, in any case.

ahem pardon the interruption

what's "tech parity"? I keep hearing it in all these SGs and RBCiv Sumaries )).

Looks like we're in pretty good shape. Just one thing I noticed, there's a supply of spices in the jungle to the north-west. It's a bit far, but about half way between us and the French. Anyone think it's worth going for? There's also another supply further north-west, nearer the French, so they might be satisfied with just getting that one.

Exsanguination: "parity" means "equality", so being at tech parity, means being equal in techs (approximately) to the other Civilizations, usually to the other leading Civilizations.

We have spices already connected. Getting more would be nice, but not worth stretching out that far to grab one spice. Not yet, at least. We want to build a strong core. Getting an FP site online early would be another priority, but where? We have the most room to the northwest, but the AI's are in land grab mode and we need to be concerned with getting all the choice fertile lands near the capital before we do much of anything else.

- Sirian

Got it. Probably Friday unless I can squeeze it in before Diablo tonight.

(0) 1500BC Shifted Pasargadae citizens from mountains to flood plains (same ETA to temple, will grow that same turn, and more commerce). Nothing else changed.

Japanese start Pyramids. French start Oracle.

(1) 1475BC Japanese start Great Lighthouse.

(2) 1450BC Temple in Pasargadae finished. Start on settler.

(3) 1425BC France has Literature, starts Great Library. Babylon finishes Oracle. Indians cascade (probably) to Great Lighthouse.

(4) 1400BC I note that all the other Civs that were building the Oracle are still listed on F7 as currently building it, and haven't yet cascaded.

Settler founds Tarsus on SE white dot.

Decide to switch Antioch over to warrior so it can grow a bit before producing a worker.

Rest of cascade happens, nothing gets finished.

(5) 1375BC Joan comes to complain (politely) about our warrior moving through one square of French territory on his way home.

(6) 1350BC Susa finishes temple, starts worker. Our warrior gets stuck in French territory for an extra turn, as it expands before he reaches the border.

(9) 1275BC Susa finishes worker. Buy Code of Laws from Japan for 330g. Buy Literature from France for 180g. Sell Literature to Japan for 120g. Everybody else broke or already caught up.

Was trying to improve relations with Japan, who are the only Civ below polite, but they're still cautious.

Q: how much over minimum acceptable on a trade deal do you have to go to be fairly confident of getting the 'neutral' or 'good' responses?

Japanese and Romans start on Great Library.

(10) 1250BC Settler out of Persepolis heading westwards towards orange dot, or could turn south to coastal cattle plains. Settler out of Pasargadae heading north towards white dot.

1250BC

1250BC (pre-turn): Luxury rate moved down a notch to 10%. hmm...trying to work out where these settlers are meant to go; I assume Jaffa meant the settler out of Persepolis is to go East, not West. I'm kinda partial to the idea of pushing south though, since the land is better there. gee...does anyone else hate it that if you just mis-click the diplomacy button it ends your turn?

1225BC (1): Settler moving south for the red dot next to the mountain. I didn't want to settle to near the Indians, and want to grab some land to the South before they get here. They don't really have anywhere else to expand now, except towards us.

1200BC (2): We now have silks online! We celebrate by cutting the luxury rate to 0%. Chopping down forest near Silktown to get that temple up asap.

1175BC (3): The Iroquois politely ask us to leave their territory - we have a warrior coming back home. The Babylonians and Indians are building the Great Library.

1150BC (4): The Iroquois are now annoyed at our warrior going through their territory. I considered offering them an out-of-date technology to soothe relations, but decided to wait til our turn to do it, to see what everyone else has. However, coming to our turn, I found that they had apparently discovered polytheism on their turn, and traded it with everyone to get to tech parity Everyone else except the Indians now have Polytheism, so I agree to buy it from the Iroquois for 291 gold (all of it) and our world map. They were offering a better price than most others (who wanted gpt). Our relations with them improved to being polite again.

Persepolis builds a spearman; I set it to build a settler, then it can build a granary, and perhaps other improvements. Susa builds a worker, I set it to build another one. The borders of the Indian city of Bengal have just expanded. Our borders are almost touching now. Settler on red dot in the south, ready to build a city. Pasagadae grows to size 7, and would go into disorder, with a settler due in 2 turns. Rather than raise the luxury rate, I use an entertainer, since it has a citizen working on an unimproved hill, and removing it won't affect the time til the settler is ready. I move a warrior over from Persepolis towards Pasagardae, to act as MP.

1125BC (5): The Babylonians want to trade territory maps; I agree. Antioch builds a worker, I set it to building a temple. Gordium is founded on the red dot to the South. Set to building a worker.

1100BC (6): Pasagardae builds a settler. This settler is planned for the yellow dot to the north-west. Pasagardae is set to build another settler. We receive news that the Aztecs are building the Great Library, and that the Aztec city of Tlateloco has completed the Great Lighthouse. The Japanese, Iroquois, and Indians all cascade to the GL. Bactra founded on the white spot in the north (near the two cattle). Set to building a worker, but also needs better defense than a warrior soon. We trade Polytheism to the Indians for chump change (world map and 12 gold), since everyone else has it. Persepolis micromanaged to get the settler one turn early.

1075BC (7): Forest near Silktown harvested; brings the time needed for the temple down to exactly one turn, and without any overflow. The Babylonians have just taken the iron to the North-East of Silktown, with a settlement.

1050BC (8): The Romans want to trade world maps with us; we agree. Persepolis produces a settler, I set it to produce a granary. The settler is planned for the orange dot just north-west of Persepolis. Silktown produces a temple, I set it to build a worker, someone needs to chop all this forest down! We get news that the French are building the Great Wall - guess what that means they just discovered! The French have also just completed the Pyramids. The Babylonians, Romans and Indians cascade to the GL. The French have no interest in trading construction, and no-one else has obtained it from them.

1025BC (9): The Indians want to trade world maps; we agree. Susa builds a worker, and I decide we need a little more military, so I set it to build a spearman. The Aztecs, Iroquois and Japanese now all cascade to the GL.

1000BC (10): The Romans complete the Great Library in Rome. Sidon founded on the yellow dot to the North-West of Pasargadae. Settler moved onto the planned city site north-west of Persepolis.

We still have to fill out in the North a little, but the fertile lands to the South look tempting. I probably should have moved more workers to the newly-founded Northern cities, especially as our core is a little "over-improved" (has mined/irrigated tiles that aren't being worked on) at the moment.

I am in favor of trying to build libraries in some of our core cities soon, in an effort to start doing some serious research.

I'm afraid I'm not sure if I'm meant to attach the file to the post, or upload it to the server. I'm not really sure how to upload to the file server, so I'll attach it to the post, if this isn't the preferred way of doing it, please let me know.

-Sirp.

Our empire in all its glory, with the Indians to the East, Babylonians to the North-East, and French to the North-West

Sirp: Please DO NOT attach files or images to your posts. Use the file server. There are directions for doing so in the Prod threads.

(That may also explain your lack of troubles with .sav files, since those are problematic with the file server, not the attach feature. The attach feature can bring down the whole forum, though, if overused. The SG forum has completely shut down CivFanatics forums a few times with our large attachments in the past. The file server is in place to prevent that from repeating).

I'll get the save file from the post you made, so you can just delete it, but the image should be moved to the file server and your attachments deleted.


Jaffa: there's no guarantee on the diplo front. 10% over minimum usually get the "standard" reply, while 20% gets the "gracious" response. On average. However, we're NOT playing with the diplomatic option here, so we don't need to cultivate votes. Go with the miser price as a rule of thumb, unless the deal is so small it's not worth quibbling over a couple gold pieces. Main reason I made so much nice-nice is that it was a one shot deal, and might as well get something from it, rather than let the AI's trade for all that stuff anyway.

We can't fix relations once they swap governments. If they are in Monarchy or Republic, they will be somewhat unhappy with our despotism no matter what we do, until we improve to as good or better of a government.


- Sirian

Sirian: ok, I see; apologies. I have edited my posts and removed the files. I assume you have already obtained them.

-Sirp.

Originally posted by Sirian
Jaffa: there's no guarantee on the diplo front. 10% over minimum usually get the "standard" reply, while 20% gets the "gracious" response. On average. However, we're NOT playing with the diplomatic option here, so we don't need to cultivate votes.

Click to expand...

Doesn't having good relations also mean a Civ is less likely to try to demand tribute or choose to go to war with us, and more amenable to alliances if we want them later?

JT: The benefits of successful trade far outstrip the minor effects of miser vs diplo dealings. That is, buying a luxury from one of the AI's, or selling them one of ours, is the most beneficial path to improving relations. That's why I put so much urgency on that large silks patch. We're going to be the only supplier of silks in the world, and that alone will have us on good terms with everybody, because we'll have them ALL as customers. (Or I think we'll have them all). Plus we'll be importing lux, and maybe have to import some resources, too, though I hope not.

It's worth a few gold here or there to make nice and generous during a deal, but NOT worth it on major deals, IMO. I've run miser dealings all the way through (Epic Four, for example) and suffered few if any ill effects. The main thing likely to upset them is if we're not in last place in all the power graphs, score, etc.

Right of Passage is another way to dramatically improve relations, and if we expand rapidly enough to grab a fair size of territory, we might be able to pay the small costs of running a RoP. RoP with civs like Aztecs, Japan, and Rome aren't likely to do us any harm, although France or India might give us headaches.

Of course NO ROP with our close neighbors until the settlement phase is fully finished, and that won't be for at least another round or so. And don't give a RoP to Hammurabi, because he's just not very trustworthy, even if he is the only other civ in the game from our cultural grouping.

One benefit we have is that much of the "no man's land" fell in our part of the world. There's a chunk north of Babylon and a large chunk north of Iroquois, but the biggest open area far from any civs was in our region, and that helps us a good bit.


- Sirian