Citizen Discussion - Adjust Quorum/Census Levels?

Shaitan

Shaitan

der Besucher
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
6,546
Location
Atlanta, GA
Currently our census is taken directly from the attendance at the Presidential Election. The quorum level is 1/2 of the census. For Term 5 we had two very popular candidates running. This created massive voter turnout. This in turn has set our census at 51 for this Term and set our quorum level at 26. This is extremely difficult to reach and does not do our citizens any good.

The purpose of a quorum requirement is to make sure that a significant percentage of the populous is involved in major decision making. Tying this number to a single election poll leads to wild numbers like the ones we are currently trying to deal with. A better system would be to use an average of all of the election returns to generate our magic number. This still ensures that a significant portion of the citizens will be required when major decisions are made but will mitigate wild numbers such as the Term 5 presidential turnout.

If we used the Average of Elections system, our current census would be 38. Our quorum would be 19. Still a significant number but not a wild one.
 
As an initiator (indirectly) of a poll suffering from this issue at the moment, i highly second the proposal!
I found getting 26 citizens to respond to a poll is hard as not to say (hopefully almost) impossible!
 
I support the proposal. At the moment the big question when polling is not "Which option will win?" but "Will we ever reach a quorum?!?". This is obviously not a good situation! :(
 
I even started campaigning for the national park poll.
Not for any of the options, but for ppl to participate!
(i hate campaigning via pm, but what else will help?)
 
I fully agree with this proposal and sincerely hope when it's put to a poll that we reach quorum. Averaging the vote totals of all election polls is the only way to go. Well, OK. Maybe just a better way.
 
Why didn't any of you whine when the CoL was passed in term four because of the low quorum requirement due to the low voter turn out in the term four presidential election? If we can get fifty people to vote in the presidential election we should be able to get 25 to vote on a law. If we can't then we must face the fact that not enough citizens are interested enough in the proposal to justify it's passage.

At this time I would like to remind everyone that we do not need a law passed everytime we want to do something. We don't need a law to have parks. Who is obstructing the formation and upkeep our our parks? Identify the culprit and let's put some public opinion pressure on him or her to comply with the idea.

So, to sum up, I am against the propsal to change the way we define our census and our quorums - unless we're going to talk about repealing the CoL and CoS en masse and building them a piece at a time.
 
I am not in favor of destroying the CoL and CoS as my good friend donsig is, however I see no problem with the quorum number.

We debated this ad naseum during the COL adoption, and I was actually in favor of a averaging technique then. But the winning arguement (aside from tedium, as I recall) was that changes to the Laws and Standards should be a little challenging to accomplish. I think that the quorum rule as is fits that need well.

I also take notice this morning that our National Parks law has passed this higher hurdle quorum.
 
I believe that the quroum is much too high. The majority of the presidential votes where by people who are Phoenatican citizens, but ones who are inactive. For us to get a clear idea of the cencus of Phoenatica, we'd need a different system to make sure that non-citizens and the exetremly inactive aren't counted.
 
Originally posted by donsig
Why didn't any of you whine when the CoL was passed in term four because of the low quorum requirement due to the low voter turn out in the term four presidential election? If we can get fifty people to vote in the presidential election we should be able to get 25 to vote on a law. If we can't then we must face the fact that not enough citizens are interested enough in the proposal to justify it's passage.
Click to expand...

The reason might not be 100% 'lack of interest', but also a lack of understanding. Some of these laws and proposals can be quite complex, and not everyone has lawyer-like skills like Shaitan. :) I'm sure a lot of people shy away from law making since it can be one of the more boring aspects of the game.
 
Originally posted by Chieftess
The reason might not be 100% 'lack of interest', but also a lack of understanding. Some of these laws and proposals can be quite complex, and not everyone has lawyer-like skills like Shaitan. :) I'm sure a lot of people shy away from law making since it can be one of the more boring aspects of the game.
Click to expand...

All the more reason to leave 'em locked up in the archives when we start the next game. :D
 
Before we adjust the quorm level, we need a new census. Then, and only then, can we adjust it.
Also, dont weigh us down with no show dead beat players.
Alsom
Whos gonna write the Loss of Knowledge story. I dont know, but im suggesting we forget everything in a time warp. That or rename the techs.
 
The quorum level is 1/2 of the census. We're discussing a different way to figure the census (and therefore the quorum).

Loss of Knowledge? That's easy. The spaceship goes off course. No humans are left by the time it wanders into a star system that has a lifebearing planet. The AI holds it together just long enough to program the autonomous robots to care for the embryos it has fertilized and then it dies. The robots eventually fail but not until 40,000 humans are raised to the age of pre-teens. The teens devolve into cliques that take off in a massive diaspora. Hundreds of years later, all knowledge of their common ancenstry gone, the children of Phoenatica are ready to meet each other once more...
 
lol, interesting idea Shaitan
 
I finally managed to get up to 30(!) votes in the park poll. But this was only because of massive campaigning and advertising on my part. The poll definitely was stalled at the 24 mark. I believe we would not have gone over if i would not have pmed all citizens of delphi, all citizens in my buddy-list etc.
Just wanted to add this as example.

And of course because im proud i managed to get up the non-election poll with the highest participation we ever had ;-)
 
Originally posted by donsig
Why didn't any of you whine when the CoL was passed in term four because of the low quorum requirement due to the low voter turn out in the term four presidential election?
Click to expand...
I did whine! I may have cheesed too. I definitely called it out as an example of the dangers of pinning the census on a single poll.
 
donsig:
btw i also whined then that the laws should not be put up at once but worked out seperately ;-)
its just our whines and warnings were not heard obviously :p
 
Originally posted by Shaitan

Please don't lock me up. I'm afraid of the dark. :p
Click to expand...

How about if we just take away your gavel?

Let's leave the census and the quorum as is. Ok, so it took a little umph from disorganizer to pass the park laws. Maybe it should be that way to get a rule passed.
 
Originally posted by disorganizer
donsig:
btw i also whined then that the laws should not be put up at once but worked out seperately ;-)
its just our whines and warnings were not heard obviously :p
Click to expand...

Our cries came out after the poll went up and then partly due to the low quorum the laws were passed en masse. I didn't like it but I saw no reason to call for rule changes. I still see no point in changing things especially since the park law passed. Proof that the system we have can work. :)
 
donsig: you also have to mention the circumstances under which the law passed
a) total agreement (well, almost)
b) massive campaigning by pm

especially on point b) i dont like this to happen again (but i really had to do it).

maybe we could implement the pres-quorum again after we fine-tuned the laws, but for the moment it seems very hard to pass laws, especially when ppl tend to not-vote on constitutional issues (i think the parks passed becuase the RPG factor in it brought the ppl to vote).
 
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